Whining about realism...

[Khet]

The problem with games is that people have expectations before playing them. Someone who has played Fallouts 1 and 2 see Fallout 3 and think "Awesome! The next game in the series!" and are expecting a very similar game to the first two. But it isn't, so they're disappointed. You see the tagline "Post-apocolyptic simulator" or whatever it is and you're thinking our world in the future after tons of nukes kill everything. But that's not wall Fallout 3 is. Fallout 3 is a separate universe BASED off of the first two games AND real life. Now I say based because it isn't exact. They tweaked it, stretched it and pulled it and mashed it together to fit THEIR vision.

 

Now... there's a catch. The GECK. Don't like it? Fix it. We're giving nearly FULL control over the game, so much so that you could literally recreate Fallouts 1 and 2. Why bother complaining when you have the ability to fix it yourself and make it EXACTLY how you want? And if you're too lazy to learn how to use the GECK and no one else is willing to make the mod for you? Shaddap. It's your own fault.

 

 

Maybe I'm sounding harsh with what I said, but there's honestly no reason for people to complain. Everyone has their own tastes. What would work for the "realism buffs" would probably piss every one else off. Personally, I love the feel of Fallout 3. It's retro, it's near-realistic but it isn't 100% realistic. I don't want to play a game where I can be wandering around, minding my own business and the next thing I know I'm dead because some sniper sitting on a rock popped a bullet through my unprotected (and possible protected) head. That's annoying, not fun.

[Werewolf334]

my sentiments exactly.

[brokenblayd]

The thing that rubs me wrong about it is the people who take pot shots at the game and the design team's intelligence because they got a themed game instead of a simulator.

 

I'll admit there have been a lot of games that i wanted to like but just failed for me in some way, not to mention all the games i do like but wish for something more from. As a matter of fact a good game can always be better, and I'll always wish it was too, however it's important to be open minded and enjoy a game for what it is. It seems the majority of gamers like Fallout 3 much more than they hate it evidenced by it's success.

 

I have nothing against realism mods, i may even end up using one at some point. I just don't like when people insult my Bethesda lol. If not for games like Oblivion and Fallout3 i would probably spend much more time in a state of boredom.

 

You can't please everyone.

 

All hail the coming of the G.E.C.K. !

[Sephlyn]

For what it's worth, the cars in Fallout 3 are fusion-powered, i.e. nuclear. The mushroom cloud is a bit much, but the concept of exploding with only a couple of hits isn't so off-course. They've been sitting there, rusting, deteriorating, for three hundred years. Any protection they might've had is long gone by now.

 

That and exploding nuclear cars are neat. Neat > Realistic.

Nuclear power doesn't produce fusion reaction we know that by now because we haven't done it yet. If you want to look at fusion powered anything go outside and look at that big bright thing that burns your retina. (If you didn't get it yet the Sun) and I do believe it's two hundred years. (I could be mistaken) and Micro-fusion cell batteries don't explode when you shoot them why would a car's? and they've been sitting out too at least some of them (and work still)

 

I don't want the game to be a weird simulator I want it to be believable Fallout 1 and 2 both made ideas that made you shrug your shoulders and say "okay then", when something weird happened and they finally explained it. Fallout 3 didn't do that you know what they needed in Fallout 3 (More backstory in the computers, they sure made hacking a bigger part of the game this time.) and More Holodisks with tons of info.

[Tchos]

How come the vaults are so small?! They should be HUGE!

Vaults had to be very hard to make in the war environment they were living in. I am sure that there was a recession with money, making resources limited. Note - this is only in the DC area, all across America vaults would have to exist.

I think it should be left at the idea that it was just unnecessary for the purposes of the game for the game developers to make the vaults as big as they're supposed to be. Because we know from the in-game texts that these DC area vaults were built to accommodate 300-400 people, so it can't be explained by saying the vaults were built smaller due to in-game wartime economy. Just have to go with "we're not seeing the whole vault".

[Luftwaffle]

How come the vaults are so small?! They should be HUGE!

Not really. They were a social engineering experiment by the enclave.

According to an interview with the lead designer of Fallout 1,

 

Officially, the Vaults were nuclear shelters designed to protect the American population from nuclear holocaust. However, with a population of almost 400 million by 2077, the U.S. would need nearly 400,000 Vaults the size of Vault 13, while Vault-Tec was commissioned to build only 122 such Vaults. The real reason for the existence of these Vaults was to study pre-selected segments of the population to see how they react to the stresses of isolationism and how successfully they re-colonize Earth after the Vault opens.

 

The shadow government, the Enclave, responsible for the experiment, have considered themselves prime candidates for recolonizing the world after a nuclear holocaust and to this end commissioned the construction of their own shelters, isolated from the Vault network. The purpose of the Vault experiments was to help prepare the Enclave for either re-colonizing Earth or colonizing another planet if Earth turned out to be uninhabitable by unmutated humans.

 

Basically, the civilian vaults were not made to protect the human race from extinction. They were part of a gigantic experiment, hence the reason why so few of the vaults worked as their inhabitants had hoped, and why disaster struck most vaults. Since they were only an experiment, I don't think the size of the vaults in fallout 3 is an issue. They were hardly meant to be underground cities, anyways.

[Tchos]

Here's some relevant text from the internal Vault-Tec records, the ones that detail the experiments that went on in the various vaults, and more importantly, how many people were put into them:

 

Vault-Tec Administration System

Records Database 923-A

 

Vault Number: 106

Total Number Of Occupants: 95 subjects, 12 researchers

Total Duration: 147 months

 

Vault Number: 108

Total Number Of Occupants: 475

Total Duration: 38 years

 

Vault Number: 112

Total Number Of Occupants: 85

Total Duration: Indefinitely

 

Vault Number: 76

Total Number Of Occupants: 500

Total Duration: 240 months

 

Vault Number: 87

Total Number Of Occupants: <redacted>

Total Duration: <redacted>

 

Vault Number: 92

Total Number Of Occupants: 245

Total Duration: 100 Years

 

This is how many people were actually populating the vaults, not just marketing hype.

[mort82]

1) Bethesda didn't come up with the nuclear car idea ;) there were alot of concepts and artist sketches from the 40s/50s, on top of that, BlackIsle added one to fallout 2. Surprised none of you apparent fallout fans remembered that it ran on microfusion cells, and if you pay attention to the junked cars that litter the landscape if both FO1 and FO2, you'll notice they're very very similar to the junked vehicles in FO3...

 

2) The ghouls and all the other mutations in the wasteland are not caused SOLELY by the radiation. In fallout 2 (again, you guys call yourselves fallout fans? have you ever actually *seen* FO1 or FO2?) you can learn from someone that the mutations all across the wasteland are caused by the low level FEV contamination... again, BlackIsle came up with the mutations, bethesda just didn't put the explanation in to their game, yet (at least from what i can tell, i haven't found out if they have yet).

 

3) How many post-apocalyptic games set in a western setting that don't feature airships and swords to big for a person to physically carry do you have that you didn't have to translate yourself?

I can count them on one hand, Wasteland, FO1, FO2, FOT and FO3. Sure there were others, most with shite graphics, others were RTS games. I for one think Bethesda have made a *ban* excellent game, sure there are bugs, but I seem to remember that when I first got Fallout 2, I couldn't run it, I had to wait for first patch ;)

 

4) On the topic of actual realism... vulk sake people, if you want a realistic post-nuclear war world to play in then hell, here's how to create one: open geck, go through all cells and delete all the NPCs and animals from it, then kill your character as soon as the game starts. Why? Because if there really was a nuclear war on the scale of the war in the fallout universe, there wouldn't *BE* anyone left to vulk about in the wasteland.

 

PS: The only thing that bugs me about FO3, which also bugged me in FO1 and FO2, heck, in every single RPG i've ever played, is that fact that money, ammunition, and supplies are in vast abundance. I may have to mod FO3 to reduce the amount of ammo lying, like someone did for FO2. I haven't even bothered going to GNR yet, and I'm already probably the richest guy in the wasteland, kitted out with miniguns, assault rifles, thousands of rounds of ammunition, enough stimpacks, chems and food to last a post-apocalyptic junkie into the next century!

[Khet]

Mort, try Xodarp777 (I think that's the name) Overhaul mod. Use the super-rare ammo/drugs/health. While it's still quite abundant (compared to what it SHOULD be) it makes the game, much, much more difficult. Especially if you play on Very Hard like I do. I can't tell you the amount of times I've turned a corner only to be blown away in one shot by a sawed-off shotgun.

 

Furthermore, I gotta reinforce Mort on all his points...

 

You people gotta remember Fallout is 50s RETRO game. That means concepts in the 50s are USED in fallout. Really, look at the TVs, the types of posters/ads, the fracking CARS. They are ALL based off of the 50s. In the 50s that's how they thought things would look in the future. In Fallout, that's how they DID look in the future. Same with the robots. Stereotypical 50s sci-fi horror movie with killer robot anyone?

 

Fallout 3 lacks explanations because (whether they say it or not) Bethesda expected you to have played through 1 and 2. FEV contaminations, the style of the cars (consistant throughout ALL three games), look it up, it's all true.

[mort82]

Hey, thanks Khet, I'll take a look at the suggest mods :)

I like the sounds of your expanded exploration mod btw, had the idea of doing something similar to that myself after I completed the "my first vault" tutorial >_<