Senior Project

[Bcadren]

Game design major at George Mason University; previous experience includes making games from scratch in Unity, UDK, GameSalad, Neverwinter and GameMaker; voice acting, audio manipulation, mesh editing/creation (3DS and Maya). Decided to use make my senior project a Skyrim mod; multiple reasons, including Bethesda is the second closest major studio to my school, after EA: Mythic; my own love of the Fallout series, and my personal belief that I can make something longer and more presentable using this kernel with its resources than I could from relative scratch in any engine I have experience in. I have six credits and my ability to graduate riding on making a good game from scratch (for all intents and purposes, this is a total conversion mod) in approximately fifteen weeks (before May). I'm allowed to recruit as many as I need, but I'm creative lead and it's my senior project. I have two plans to hit the ground running with and I thought I'd put which to start on up to public opinion of the mod fanbase. Willing to recruit from here for the project once it's at full steam, though that is not my intent at this time and I'd need proper (legal) credits for you.

 

Basic idea of the two projects. Each contains the full idea of what I'd want for a full funded game and what I intend to do on this project as it is. Short of a spiel as I can manage, ask questions if you have them.

 

"Norse" game: The full idea is as faithful as possible interpretation of the Norse cosmology; ice, fire and stone giants, dwarfs, elves and humans as playable races; all of the gods as important characters. For the scope of the project; single playable race and their homeworld. Current intention is Jotunn (Stone Giants/Loki's race) and a portion of Jotunheim; story involving the main character coming of age in their tribe. Focuses on the things that make their culture unique, tribal living, funerary cannibalism, their culture around warfare. Includes a unique area; unique player race (Jotunn); most of which have the ability to turn into one animal form (similar to werewolves; hyena, panther, snake, hawk and deer are common), natural magic ability, melee/strength focus, average height of 10-14 feet, unique perk tree. Main quest and sidequests involving a few of the gods. Jotunn would be only playable race, lightly altered Nords may be used as "humans", any gods appearing in person would likely be semi-unique model. Main plot would focus on the character becoming an adult and an ongoing feud between tribes of the race. Would consider doing a different one of the realms as the focus of the senior project, if there were requests for it; focus on Svartlheim, Alfaheim, Muspelheim or Niflheim are all on the table. Less depicted regions and a higher level of fidelity than most stand to be the uniqueness of this project.

 

"High Sci-Fi" Game: The full idea here is an open-world science fiction. Main theme is genetic engineering. Unspecified number of years in the future, when genetically modified intelligent creatures are the most common beings in the intergalactic empire. For the scope of the project, again, very few planets and a relatively small portion of ones visitable may be explored. Intending to have two playable races, metahumans (loosely based on Kajit, but model changes as you take on perks [which actually are genetic modifications in game]), and Deinonychans (intelligent, talking raptors); additionally less altered Nords would appear as the mysterious "immortals", humans engineered to be massively intelligent and near immortal, but physically frail, current leaders of the world. Game would focus on the dynamics between a counterculture which is around picking unique genetic combinations and doing activities because of a person's own desires and the state which picks and chooses which genes an individual gets as a way of preparing them to do specific jobs, which they are assigned. The debate between the rationalist pure communist state versus more individualistic counterculture breaks into war about 1/3 of the way into the game. Personally haven't seen science fiction used as a theme in open-world games; not directly intended as political commentary as much as hard science fiction. Space travel will exist, facilitated through use of a spacecraft (that in game functionally is a cave that opens in multiple places); perk tree hijacked as a modification tree; either purchase or place in quest required to advance, every change is a genetic modification that also changes character appearance, different trees can increase how human the character appears, how bird-like, snake-like, etc. with each choice meaning different abilities otherwise inaccessible.

 

On my own bias; "Norse" I want to do, because I see that a lot of people have interest in mythology, but it's very rare to see it depicted correctly and I feel like in the time and scope available I can do more justice to the Norse than I could to, say the Greeks (which would be harder) or the Egyptians (which frankly I don't know enough about). "High Sci-fi" appeals to me, because of the complete creative control that having a unique science fiction brings and my personal love of the idea of genetic modification and engineering to intelligent life, though it is a taboo at this time.

[Jason2112]

Both game styles have proven to be worthy of any game designer. You need to pick

the one you yourself will fall in love with. That will end up showing in the final product.

 

"Norse" comes with rules ... do this , oh you can't do that ...

"Sci-Fi" is wide open ... do as you will, it's Sci-Fi ...

 

"Norse" comes with a built in player market ...

"Sci-Fi" is a strange new game you try out of curiosity ...

 

Both have pros and cons from a designers point of view.

 

Your pole would appear to be pushing the Sci-Fi angle a bit more.

So, I think you already know your path. Good luck, and good coding!

Edited January 15, 2013 by Jason2112

[scrivener07]

You picked a hell of a buggy game to overhaul. I see many a wallbash in your future. :wallbash:

I said norse because it will save you tons on asset creation which has its own ten pages of limitations and bugs.

[FiftyTifty]

In all honesty, the CK is buggy and slow. You are going up a hill that is already steep enough as it is; using the CK will make it even steeper.

 

I recommend using an actual engine, rather than a game-editor. Neoaxis is my favorite due to the apparent interface and the readily available documentation.

 

I'm interested in aiding you with your project, but you can count me out if you follow through with using the CK. It's slow, buggy and unpredictable. Three things that you DO NOT WANT for something even a fraction as in-depth as you are planning to make.

[scrivener07]

Im with 50 on this. You may be better off making a much smaller scale project from scratch in udk or unity. The library of assets skyrim provides might not be worth the headache. I have no idea what your assignment details are though. Whatever way you go theres a forum somewhere ready to help.

[Bcadren]

Your poll would appear to be pushing the Sci-Fi angle a bit more.

So, I think you already know your path. Good luck, and good coding!

Honestly; from my own point of view; there are pro's and con's to both. Norse, I want to take in, because Skyrim itself and films like Thor and the Avengers have peaked interest in the religion, but none of those go into the myths themselves or make any attempt to show that world. Closest thing we have to that, actually, is Lord of the Rings; with Tolkien's versions of elves and dwarves being somewhat close to the actual myth (moreso the elves, than the dwarves). What I hope to do in that project, would be to display the world as close to the myth as I can and weave my own new legends on top of it. The science fiction, on the other hand, I like because primarily, it's my scratch world, I made it from nothing. Influences include a clockwork orange, Jurassic Park, Batman Beyond and quite a few others, but the creature types and the set-up I think is unique. I do admit, though, people that have pointed that out are perfectly correct in saying that it's a far larger project, although not in quest scripting or terrain building, but in asset creation and writing.

 

You picked a hell of a buggy game to overhaul. I see many a wallbash in your future. :wallbash:

I said norse because it will save you tons on asset creation which has its own ten pages of limitations and bugs.

Less wallbashing than if I was going from complete scratch; I think. Especially since, the closest I really CAN do from scratch is using Unity, which though asset creation is no problem, has it's own set of bugs and limitations and starting from scratch means I'd end up making a lot of my own. Regardless of what I do for my senior project though, this semester is going to kill me. Have senior project (this), my grant project (sound-based game; Unity), another game design course, the last semester of 3-D modelling, physics and composition (music) AND I have to worry about getting an internship to graduate. Hell of a lot of work; probably fun; but hell of a lot of work.

 

Anyways, asset creation, I really have taken into account; both project ideas will end up requiring a fair bit; though yes Sci-Fi would require more than Norse. Especially if going with Jotunnheim as currently planned. Regardless of which realm Norse game would focus on, I do intend to at least have small art tests of each of the other realms, to show what each would be like if it became a funded project, instead of just for class. If using Jotunnheim, prospectively looking at (in terms of asset creation [including maps and quests]):

 

Unique player race of Jotunn; either scratch model rigged to an edited default skeleton or edited default model. Unique perk trees to match the abilities of this race. As part of my personal rule of "no censorship" the default model for this race will be nude, rather than a "nude underwear" as is in vanilla.

A sizable forest (the Ironwood of Jotunnheim) as the primary playable area; including interiors for player home and several other places within the tribe, including the Hall of the leader and a public Hall used for ceremonies and drinking. [Jotnar of the Ironwood build their homes in hollowed out holes near the bases of huge (larger than real world-redwoods) trees carefully as to not kill the tree.

Main quest, which involves ordinary tribal life; growing up; funerary cannibalism; warring over territory with other tribes.

Side quests, which involve relationships with other members of the tribe; the possible succession of tribal leadership.

Devotional side quests, which involve relationships and worship of a few available gods, possibly including in person appearances of said gods; in turn stats related to the god's current opinion of you and likelihood to do favors if asked/give presents or curse you and deny your worship.

Unique skyboxes (two); one that shows the sky of Jotunnheim as it normally appears and the other for one that can dispel any illusions, which shows part of a gigantic tree (Yggdrasil) instead of a particular constellation and the sun and moon as goddesses riding chariots.

 

Other realms, which could instead be focus hold differing challenges, usually meaning more new assets; the other eight realms are (I'd prefer to at least have an art-test of each as a way of showing the scale I'd go to, if the project was funded; though admittedly that'd probably be towards the end of the project if at all and displayed mostly as a dream sidequest.) Includes everything from a tundra, to a realm where lava is used like water to land of the dead to earth...

 

--

 

In the case of Sci-Fi looking at:

 

Two unique races (one of which hijacks a lot of the normal character creation stuff to allow the character to slowly morph from having fur to having scales or grow wings, etc.)

Multiple landscapes and skyboxes; including city interiors and spacecraft interior. (Note, spacecraft for this game is primarily organic, a space lichen).

Main quest involving the development of a civil war and the player fighting for the rebellion (could allow the player to choose sides, but realistically, that'd double the scale and...no)

Side quests existing to fill out the world.

Side quests existing primarily as references; I intend to at least do one that's a reference to the tribbles, in which a genetic engineer invents something similar and gets his hands full.

Side quest involving first contact.

 

Theme developed through the story is that through the creation of this intergalactic terran empire, we'd lost touch with our humanity and began creating people a certain way for their utility. The rebellion (which the player will end up siding with) fights for the ability to be unique for the sake of being unique and the genes necessary to be ageless (never die of old age) to be public information, instead of held by the elite only. True first contact with any alien race hadn't been made before the start of the game and may happen during it; a lot of the theme developed though is that the humans themselves have become different and alien as they have become space faring. Aliens, if included are not even carbon based (or silicon-based) life, but something we can't completely understand. Everything EXCEPT the alien race is to be hard sci-fi (little to no handwaving, explainable in modern science, though not something we are capable of, yet.) Any aliens encountered, needn't be so. Worlds explorable are different kinds of human settlements, primarily; varying from factory planets to commerce planets to ones which haven't truly been developed yet.

 

Note: I mostly can spout more immediately on Norse, because I'm pulling from pre-existing myth; where the Sci-fi comes directly from my brain, so details, such as planet names haven't been developed yet. In BOTH cases; however, most the primary character names and exactly how the story unfolds haven't been decided yet, though they would be...

 

In all honesty, the CK is buggy and slow. You are going up a hill that is already steep enough as it is; using the CK will make it even steeper.

 

I recommend using an actual engine, rather than a game-editor. Neoaxis is my favorite due to the apparent interface and the readily available documentation.

 

I'm interested in aiding you with your project, but you can count me out if you follow through with using the CK. It's slow, buggy and unpredictable. Three things that you DO NOT WANT for something even a fraction as in-depth as you are planning to make.

I haven't used CK. I assume it can't be worse than UDK or BUILDTools (editor for the engine that Duke3D shipped on). Mostly, I was choosing Skyrim mod, because of assets already available and systems already in place (not wanting to build inventory from scratch or even ATTEMPT facial animations [a friend and I animated a face talking, ONCE, took over a week for about 15 seconds of talking, when going from scratch]). That said, I haven't used Neoaxis either and it may have some or all of what I'm looking for. Engines I have most experience with are in my original post; of those, I only really LIKE Unity. I'd certainly consider it, though I'm not sure I'd have some of the same team if I switch and I don't want to end up spending too much project time building an inventory from scratch or trying to get animations to work. Certainly never made anything this complex from relative scratch like Unity before; I am considering, though, I like having dialogue, inventory, and combat already set up for me rather than going from close to nothing.

 

Im with 50 on this. You may be better off making a much smaller scale project from scratch in udk or unity. The library of assets skyrim provides might not be worth the headache. I have no idea what your assignment details are though. Whatever way you go theres a forum somewhere ready to help.

Project details, course requirements in general are basically this. One semester, one completed game that is presentable. Being a mod is perfectly acceptable, though it'd have to be published (not necessarily officially or anything, Nexus accepting it and it getting reviews fro the site is enough). Way the course is normally run is about three weeks into the semester, professor expects complete written plan; who is working on the project, what the project entails, etc. End of the semester (approx. 15-16 weeks); publicly present the game to a panel including professors, peers and industry professionals (includes a couple guys from Bethesda, normally); grades are based on their reviews of the projects presented along with the professor's review from his own playthrough (supposed to also post video walkthrough online, either public or send him the link). No reason it needs to be in Bethesda's engine, but of the people who have used it before, more than half have gotten internships there and two were hired permanently. My own focus is more towards, trying to show this as a small team, short time prototype of a project and try to get funding to make it a full project. IF using Bethesda's engine, they'd have to publish (and probably fund) it; if not, it's less targeted, but other people are more likely to look at it in that light. I'm not sure which is better/worse honestly. Nor am I completely certain why I picked "open-world RPG" as what I try to get funding with, other than it being a popular genre and Bethesda being so close by. Senior project is kind of my showboat though, could be anything I like as long as it's a working game.

[FiftyTifty]

I haven't used CK. I assume it can't be worse than UDK

 

You don't even know what you are getting into, and you want to do something as large as what you are aiming to do?

 

The CK, as far as game engines (Or in this case, editors) go, it IS worse than the UDK.

The CK will crash for no reason, even when doing things that should not cause a crash. I've had it crash many times doing things the exact same way as when it didn't crash.

 

If you REALLY want to use the CK, prepare for frustrations. Don't be surprised when you hit that save button and the CK crashes, losing all your work. Don't be surprised when it takes a few minutes to close a window.

 

And don't get me started on how you can only open X number of windows before the CK refuses to do anything more, requiring a restart of the CK.

 

I will put forward using Neoaxis. It took me less than a minute to get a 4096x4096 heightmap into the engine and have LOD generated for it. The same thing in the CK will take many hours, even when using tools like OSCape and TESAnnwyn.

 

And so you know, the Gamebryo lacks geometry instancing; something that will boost performance greatly when used. Neoaxis, on the other hand...

 

...I feel like a salesman for Neoaxis, but seriously. Pick any engine. ANY. Just not the CK. You will waste less time, have less frustration and have a generally all-round better experience if you use something that was not hastily punted out by a couple of Beth's guys.

[Bcadren]

I haven't used CK. I assume it can't be worse than UDK

 

You don't even know what you are getting into, and you want to do something as large as what you are aiming to do?

 

The CK, as far as game engines (Or in this case, editors) go, it IS worse than the UDK.

The CK will crash for no reason, even when doing things that should not cause a crash. I've had it crash many times doing things the exact same way as when it didn't crash.

 

If you REALLY want to use the CK, prepare for frustrations. Don't be surprised when you hit that save button and the CK crashes, losing all your work. Don't be surprised when it takes a few minutes to close a window.

 

And don't get me started on how you can only open X number of windows before the CK refuses to do anything more, requiring a restart of the CK.

 

I will put forward using Neoaxis. It took me less than a minute to get a 4096x4096 heightmap into the engine and have LOD generated for it. The same thing in the CK will take many hours, even when using tools like OSCape and TESAnnwyn.

 

And so you know, the Gamebryo lacks geometry instancing; something that will boost performance greatly when used. Neoaxis, on the other hand...

 

...I feel like a salesman for Neoaxis, but seriously. Pick any engine. ANY. Just not the CK. You will waste less time, have less frustration and have a generally all-round better experience if you use something that was not hastily punted out by a couple of Beth's guys.

My experience with UDK is terrible; had it crash for no good reason and had a number of it's default assets apparently not work unless you update their source yourself. Hate that thing. :wallbash: Similar reasons are why I prefer 3DS as my mesh-editor over the others I've tried...

 

Most my positive experience is with Unity. I love Unity, but I'd be pretty hard-pressed to make ANYTHING like the engine this game would need out of it or any engine from the relative scratch. Particularly, dialogue, quests, melee combat and inventory present themselves as being very difficult to code in a timely manner. I made an FPS in Unity in less than a week once; also had a bloody hard time working out some really simple things a few times, like trying to get tilt-based controls on a shooter for android; wouldn't know what to expect here. Greatest hurdles I'd see in going from scratch though are, those (dialogue, quests, melee-combat and inventory). Particularly in managing how many variables they'd make; getting facial animations up for dialogue; making a good inventory GUI from scratch and having the data structure to store data about all items the player could possibly have; getting a good control setup for the combat system...etc. You think I (or small team) could get enough working mechanics for an open-world RPG in this NeoAxis in a timely manner? I know how it would be done in Unity and can hardly see it there; oddly, given how Unity runs, I see the biggest problems being making sure the inventory saves properly and remains the same between scenes, therefore loading back properly.

[FiftyTifty]

Well, I only dabbled for a few minutes in Unity (Hated it), so I don't know how to help you with that engine.

 

Still. Seeing how adamant you are, go ahead. Use the CK. Just don't smash your compy when it fuds out on you.

[tyrannynexus]

Odd haha, i have never had the CK freeze, crash, or do anything "really" buggy.