GOP Electoral College Power Play

[HeyYou]

@ sukeban

 

Before you put another word about "certain segment of the right-wing", here is a sample of the shoe being placed on the other foot:

 

Remember how President Bush was decried by so many as "not my president"? Think they thought him as legit?

 

Remember all the protests against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Where'd they go after Obama got inagurated? We're still in Afghanistan, you know.

 

Remember all the names the Tea Party was called, "Teabagger" being chief among them? How they were "violent" and "hateful"? Now when Occupy Wall Street came along and camped on someone's private property with crimes such as rape and murder in said camps, where were the tea party's nay sayers then?

 

And as for Obamacare, forcing people to buy AYNTHING as a Constitutional right under the "Commerce Clause" is a far greater rights impingement than any Bush was perceived to have been doing.

 

So remember, using the "a certain segment" argument is just as easily turned back on you.

 

Mainly because of the interesting vote counts, re-counts, and re-re-counts during both of bushs elections...... Not much of which made the papers for more than one article or two.

 

We aren't fighting in Iraq any more. Sure, we still have troops there, but, they are in non-combat roles. Mainly, guarding our ambassadors and such. Not to mention that the war in Iraq was based on lies and manipulation. Anyone that said anything different than what King George wanted to hear, suddenly found himself unemployed.

 

Patriot Act anyone?

 

Occupy wall street camped in public parks.

 

I will agree with you on Obamacare. I was floored that the Supreme court actually upheld that portion of it....... How in hell is that NOT a violation of my rights?

[sukeban]

@ sukeban

 

Before you put another word about "certain segment of the right-wing", here is a sample of the shoe being placed on the other foot:

 

Remember how President Bush was decried by so many as "not my president"? Think they thought him as legit?

 

Remember all the protests against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Where'd they go after Obama got inagurated? We're still in Afghanistan, you know.

 

Remember all the names the Tea Party was called, "Teabagger" being chief among them? How they were "violent" and "hateful"? Now when Occupy Wall Street came along and camped on someone's private property with crimes such as rape and murder in said camps, where were the tea party's nay sayers then?

 

And as for Obamacare, forcing people to buy AYNTHING as a Constitutional right under the "Commerce Clause" is a far greater rights impingement than any Bush was perceived to have been doing.

 

So remember, using the "a certain segment" argument is just as easily turned back on you.

 

Mainly because of the interesting vote counts, re-counts, and re-re-counts during both of bushs elections...... Not much of which made the papers for more than one article or two.

 

We aren't fighting in Iraq any more. Sure, we still have troops there, but, they are in non-combat roles. Mainly, guarding our ambassadors and such. Not to mention that the war in Iraq was based on lies and manipulation. Anyone that said anything different than what King George wanted to hear, suddenly found himself unemployed.

 

Patriot Act anyone?

 

Occupy wall street camped in public parks.

 

I will agree with you on Obamacare. I was floored that the Supreme court actually upheld that portion of it....... How in hell is that NOT a violation of my rights?

 

I think that HeyYou answered that pretty well right there.

 

And I would agree with the both of you regarding healthcare, that even though it is legal (...), that it was a poor substitute for advancing a genuine public option and represented just an enormous windfall for the already ludicrously wealthy insurance industry. But it does show you the WTF nature of today's Republicans when Obama can take essentially THEIR own idea from 10 years ago and then get blasted as a socialist/grandma killer/whatever for advancing it. So much chutzpah involved in that.

 

I think though that too many people fall into the illusion of the equivalence (likely cause news outlets report it that way to avoid being tarred with the "liberal media bias" brush) in the sayings and doings of the "loud right" and the "loud left." What you see on Fox News and hear from MANY Republican politicians (and not just the fringe guys either--I'm talking the leaders of the party here) is so often not grounded in any sense of reality, nor bounded by any pretense of even caring about objective facts. Romney's campaign said it best with "We won't let our campaign be dictated to by fact-checkers" aka "We'll say whatever we please and we DGAF if it's true or not." Most folks don't bother to read the small-print corrections anyway, so his only real mistake was articulating this view to the media....

 

You simply don't have this "We'll create our own reality" attitude on the left. Sure, the hosts of MSNBC and Piers Morgan certainly have opinions (after all, cable news isn't the local prime time broadcast), but they at least traffic in--and care about--actual, verifiable facts. Can they be mean, sure. Can they be unfair, sure. But, to a certain degree, what else can you say about some of things that right-wing politicians and media figures say these days? You can't treat the "birther" talk of Trump et al with respect, nor can you treat "dog-whistle racism" of Gingrich, Palin et al with respect, nor can you treat talk the about the "Nullification"/quasi-revolutionary craziness of Rand Paul with any sort of respect. These are not legitimate points of view and should not be treated as such, yet the right lauds them as celebrities and heroes for each, ever-crazier remark that they make--rewarding them with airtime and acclaim like a mother reinforcing bad behavior in a child. On the left, you might have some girl handing out "Meat is Murder!" pamphlets in front of a college bookstore or some nasty, bedraggled "anarchist" punks (really just dudes that like to get drunk in public spaces and put bandanas on their dogs) "Fighting The Man" by urinating on a park bench, but crazy Republicans have control over an entire political party. One of these things is not like the other. Radical, self-identified (I don't think that mainstream liberals would claim them as their own) howl in the wilderness (literally) and are not taken seriously. Radical, self-identified Tea Partiers have co-opted 1/2 of our political system and are using that "achievement" to hold up action in 100% of it, all whilst braying about revolution and bringing up topics (Nullification) that haven't been talked about in fifty years (Desegregation) or back before the Civil War.

 

Anyway, one could go on, but I think the point is made: these days, the far-left and the far-right are not equivalent in the least.

Edited January 22, 2013 by sukeban

[rizon72]

When it comes to this both sides whine and cry about the electorial college. Makes me want to slap them all (both left and right wingers).

[colourwheel]

I personally feel redistricting is the main cause to why our government has become so dysfunctional. This is just one more reason why I do not think The GOP should be pushing for this....

 

The republican party has redistricted pocketed sectors for gerrymandering seats in the house only to live in a bubble of what their own constituents want over national popularity. If you look at recent history the reason why the GOP in the house is so scared of compromise is because just one wrong move in voting on any legislation could be a threat to a primary for their own seat by the crazy caucus that got them their job in the 1st place through gerrymandering.

 

The GOP is dying and even if they rig the electoral college the next national election cycle in all the blue states they control, I doubt they would even win If Hillary Clinton would run.

 

The GOP's national popularity is around 25% approval and a majority of the nation is female. When your political party has to have a gathering for the sole purpose on "how to talk to the female vote" your party is never going to win national elections...

 

The GOP undermines womens rights, gay and lesbians, immigrants, african americans, etc... The only demographic the GOP can hold strong anymore is with "white males" and by 2016 the "white vote" will decrease by 2% atleast and that is not just the "white male vote"....

Edited February 1, 2013 by colourwheel

[sukeban]

I personally feel redistricting is the main cause to why our government has become so dysfunctional. This is just one more reason why I do not think The GOP should be pushing for this....

 

The republican party has redistricted pocketed sectors for gerrymandering seats in the house only to live in a bubble of what their own constituents want over national popularity. If you look at recent history the reason why the GOP in the house is so scared of compromise is because just one wrong move in voting on any legislation could be a threat to a primary for their own seat by the crazy caucus that got them their job in the 1st place through gerrymandering.

 

The GOP is dying and even if they rig the electoral college the next national election cycle in all the blue states they control, I doubt they would even win If Hillary Clinton would run.

 

The GOP's national popularity is around 25% approval and a majority of the nation is female. When your political party has to have a gathering for the sole purpose on "how to talk to the female vote" your party is never going to win national elections...

 

The GOP undermines womens rights, gay and lesbians, immigrants, african americans, etc... The only demographic the GOP can hold strong anymore is with "white males" and by 2016 the "white vote" will decrease by 2% atleast and that is not just the "white male vote"....

 

I agree with all of this, and do agree that Hillary would be an almost unstoppable juggernaut if/when she decides to run. If the GOP maintains its current intransigence into 2016, we could be looking at an Obama-in-2008 map on steroids, as she can potentially put even "blood red" border states in play: West Virginia, Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Indiana. Texas and Arizona probably won't be winnable in 2016, but by 2020 they will be. Democrats won't crack the Old Dominion anytime soon, but I believe that Georgia is the best target for making potential inroads. I can't imagine any GOP nominee that could stand against this, maybe a Chris Christie type candidate whose views are relatively moderate, who speaks what's on his mind, and who is easily identified with by loads of working Americans... but, he'd never stand a chance in a GOP primary (kinda like Huntsman in 2011). Marco Rubio? Heck no. He might be Latino, but he's a conservative Cuban-American and is not at all representative of the dominant Hispanic minority in the USA, Mexican-Americans. Cuban-American interests =/= Mexican-American interests, especially regarding immigration and paths to citizenship. Most Mexican-American folks that I know view him as a regular GOP politician or worse--just a "token Latino" that is about as tone-deaf as saying that the GOP represents African-Americans because of Clarence Thomas.

 

The messenger only matters if you have a compelling message to sell in the first place. The GOP emphatically doesn't. And all the news that I've seen has them falling back on the same old "principles" that got them to this point to begin with. Bobby Jindal did just this the other day, saying that GOP should stop being "the stupid party" only to essentially reaffirm all the reasons that they are perceived that way ("never backing down from our timeless principles..."). It's called adaptation and the GOP is refusing to do it. The Democrats did it in the 1990s with Clinton, as they grew tired of running on their old 1960s-era platform and losing. But dogma has a far more rigid hold over the GOP now than it did over the Democrats in the 1990s, for numerous reasons--one important consideration being that of primaries as colourwheel said. The 1990s had the Democrats shift to the right--and they didn't have to worry about Ralph Nader and his Super-PAC running ads against them saying that they weren't liberal enough. Republicans do have to worry about this, and their collective instinct for self-preservation is stronger than their urge to do right by their country.

 

Should this process of self-reflection and adaptation continue to be avoided, the GOP will for sure transform into a regional party, holding sway only in the Deepest South and pockets of the rural West, Mid- and Mountain West. That isn't enough to govern nationally, not even to control the House. 2016 or 2018 will have the House shift back to Democrats, and 2020's redistricting should solidify this control for the decade after that. Best thing for the GOP could be to dissolve and start over. There is far more electoral hay to be made reaching into the center of the country rather than relying on the angry right as a catalyst to marginal power. Sooner or later a (probably younger) conservative will figure this out, but I don't see it coming from any of the established heavy-hitters of the party. People don't fundamentally change their political beliefs once formed, so it isn't going to be Rubio or Rand Paul or any of the other young(ish) members of the Tea Party either. More likely, it will be their children (not literally).

 

The generational nature of electoral coalitions is very instructive. The Depression-era experience won over our great-grandparents and many of their children. Nixon, the counter-culture, and Reagan won over many of our grandparents and a good portion of the Baby Boom and Generation X. The experience of Bush Jr. and recent Republican madness has turned the overwhelming majority of those younger than Generation X against the GOP, probably for life. Conservatism will have to reap the seeds that its sown when it traded the votes of the old for those of the young. It made political sense when our grandparents still numbered a healthy percentage of the electorate, but for each of their lights that dims that trade becomes ever worse. Every year that goes by during this current phase of GOP insanity is another year in the political wilderness for the Right, both in the present as well as years in the future when those teenagers watching and reading their remarks in disgust become old enough to vote. They'll then be carried in the electorate until they day that they die, always remembering the madness of their formative years and not desiring to return to it.

[rizon72]

I spent time in coffee shops all around the country, adn people who say the GOP is dying, they are lying to you. Thos who tell you that liberals are open-minded, are lying to you. I've more sane conversations wtih a highly religious far right-winger (who actually listened to my stance on gays) than any far left-wing liberal on the same issue. There is anger, on all sides, not just the far-right. Stop paying attention to the bloggers, and those 'reporters' on the TV, and actually go out, and talk to those who do not agree with you in person. Its a far more enlightening conversation than any forum, blog or TV show.

[colourwheel]

people who say the GOP is dying, they are lying to you.

 

The GOP certainly is not growing and based on the U.S. census The white male vote in america is rapidly declining. Understanding this unless the GOP severely changes their policy stances on womens rights, immigration, lgbt, etc... I don't see the GOP growing anymore. So by defualt, not because someone is telling me lies, or listening to some radical liberal media, The GOP is actually dying. Empirical evidence doesn't lie, The GOP as it is now won't survive.

[MistTiger]

Wow, almost hate to intrude on this Colorwheel & Sukaban hugfest.


Time for a history lesson.


1. It is up to the individual states to determine how they apportion their electoral votes and that is done by the duely elected state legislatures. if the citizens of that state don't like the way their legislatures are passing laws, they can replace them by duely electing new legislaters more in tune with their majority beliefs. If I am a citizen of state "A" and I want to change the way my state apportions the electoral college delegates, then I could care less how a non-voting citizen of another state thinks about what I am going to do. Politely, mind the business of your state and stay out of mine. I am perfectly capable of electing my own representation without your inputs or opinions.

2. It is time for reality to intrude. The house of representatives is reelected every two years while the senate terms are for 6. If the GOP is so dead, why are they still in control of the house? Why are they in control of any state legislature? Why are there GOP governors? Obviously, someone is voting for them. According to your hugfest, the House should now be solidly democrat as the GOP is dying. Amazing!!! How could this happen? Want an interesting statistic. Look up how many of the "Tea party" members elected in 2010 were reelected in 2012. Surprising, isn't it.

3. Now the final reality. America only owes you the rights granted in the constitution. Nothing else. America does not owe you a job, health care, a house, or a check every month. Everything not granted in the constitution is CHARITY and is subject to change. The voters of the US elect representatives to determine how the US spends its taxes and governs itself. That is all subject to change bounded only by the US and state constitutions. That is why voting is so important in the US and why any voter caught voting more than once should be convicted of a felony and lose the right to vote. Multiple voting is cheating and a betrayal of the very foundations of American democracy. A second felony conviction should result in expulsion from the US and loss of citizenship. That is what I want my representatives to vote in. My one vote, my right, guaranteed by the constitution. BTW, History check, the US supreme court upheld voter ID in April 2008 in a case involving Indiana. Therefore, Voter ID is not unconstitutional. Sorry, but your facts are wrong if you said anything different. No photo ID where I vote, no voting. Simple. Get it at the local DMV.

4. Sadly, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay for it. Obamacare and national defense are not free. If you spent as much energy holding your duely elected representatives of the representative democracy accountable for how they spent the money they get in taxes, as you do in bashing political parties, then America would be a far better place. It is time to start judging and discarding our representatives by how they waste our money, not by their political party. There will come a time when all the promises of free stuff will fail and the reality of own reduced fiscal means will be undeniable. You don't lose weight by buying more food, you lose weight by reducing caloric intake and changing your lifestyle. American is about to go on a fiscal diet.

We cannot be affected. History tells a different story. Look at the current fiscal woes of Greece, Cyprus, Spain, and Portugal. Why is this happening? Free stuff? maybe, maybe not. Take a look at why these countries are having problems and then take a good look at America's fiscal woes.

That will never happen to the US? We are paying higher wages and benefits to our workers along with higher corporate taxes than some of our goods are worth on the world market. Other countries are offering goods and services to the world of comparable quality for lower prices. We complain about job losses when global companies are not going to pay higher prices for US unskilled and semi-skilled workers that they can get in other countries for a lot cheaper. We have simply priced ourselves out of a job. Happens all the time in US capitalist industry, why shouldn't it happen globally.

Covered a lot of ground on this one, but considering the vast majority of this thread has been about bashing political parties and not about the electoral college, I feel justified and exonerated.

Just my opinion. Cheers!!!! V/R MistTiger

[HeyYou]

House terms are four years, with one third of electors being replace every two years.

 

You get a very narrow band of choices on just whom you are allowed to vote for. Someone else chooses who runs, and then, the folks with money decide who wins. Sure, there are some folks that do their own research, to decide who they want to vote for, but, they are the exception, not the rule. Most folks just go by what they see on the TV, or various news sights......

 

Politicians say a lot of things to get into office. Please note, that 90% of campaign promises are NOT fulfilled. They tell you what they think you want to hear, and then, once in office, they do what the folks that got them elected (the ones with the money.....) tell them too, if they want to get RE-elected.

 

We may be paying higher wages and benefits when compared to the rest of the world.... but, if you look at the numbers here at home, wages and benefits for MOST folks have been declining. Most of the jobs being created these days are in the service industry.... and are low paying, low benefit positions. Upper management may be seeing their wages/benefits increasing, but, for the average joe, that simply is not the case.

 

America simply cannot compete on the global stage via free-trade agreements with third-world nations whose standard of living is WELL below what we grew used to in the 60's-90's. Not unless we want to LOWER our standard of living to theirs. Large corporations are posting huge profits, sure, but, soon, their very actions are going to ensure that they don't have anyone here in the states to sell their products to.

 

Unemployment numbers declined recently, but, it wasn't because there were more jobs to be had, it was because almost half a million folks GAVE UP looking for a job...... had those folks been included in the numbers, unemployment would have instead, gone up.

 

The government keeps telling us that 'the economy is improving'..... and they point at rising stock market prices..... I put forth that stock prices are a measure of how CORPORATIONS are doing, NOT our local economies. Around here, unemployment is still high, there are hundreds of folks that apply for a single opening at Taco Bell.... simply so they can get ANY job at all. We are still in decline here. I don't see that changing any time soon, nor do I think republican economic policy is going to help. (mainly because it hasn't since 2001....) I don't see our current dem controlled government talking about it much either, as THEY don't have any answers either. They are, in fact, contributing to the decline. Adding yet more 'free-trade' agreements..... and choking the life out of various industries with their "green" policies.

 

The GOP IS in decline. At this point, they are changing their positions on a fair few of their 'core values', in the hopes of picking up a few votes. All of which will be in vain. Their BEST hope for a resurgence in '14 is for the dems to do something truly stupid, like draconian gun-control laws..... that will get folks more pissed at the dems, than they currently are at the repubbies.

[MistTiger]

House terms are four years, with one third of electors being replace every two years.

 

You get a very narrow band of choices on just whom you are allowed to vote for. Someone else chooses who runs, and then, the folks with money decide who wins. Sure, there are some folks that do their own research, to decide who they want to vote for, but, they are the exception, not the rule. Most folks just go by what they see on the TV, or various news sights......

 

Politicians say a lot of things to get into office. Please note, that 90% of campaign promises are NOT fulfilled. They tell you what they think you want to hear, and then, once in office, they do what the folks that got them elected (the ones with the money.....) tell them too, if they want to get RE-elected.

 

We may be paying higher wages and benefits when compared to the rest of the world.... but, if you look at the numbers here at home, wages and benefits for MOST folks have been declining. Most of the jobs being created these days are in the service industry.... and are low paying, low benefit positions. Upper management may be seeing their wages/benefits increasing, but, for the average joe, that simply is not the case.

 

America simply cannot compete on the global stage via free-trade agreements with third-world nations whose standard of living is WELL below what we grew used to in the 60's-90's. Not unless we want to LOWER our standard of living to theirs. Large corporations are posting huge profits, sure, but, soon, their very actions are going to ensure that they don't have anyone here in the states to sell their products to.

 

Unemployment numbers declined recently, but, it wasn't because there were more jobs to be had, it was because almost half a million folks GAVE UP looking for a job...... had those folks been included in the numbers, unemployment would have instead, gone up.

 

The government keeps telling us that 'the economy is improving'..... and they point at rising stock market prices..... I put forth that stock prices are a measure of how CORPORATIONS are doing, NOT our local economies. Around here, unemployment is still high, there are hundreds of folks that apply for a single opening at Taco Bell.... simply so they can get ANY job at all. We are still in decline here. I don't see that changing any time soon, nor do I think republican economic policy is going to help. (mainly because it hasn't since 2001....) I don't see our current dem controlled government talking about it much either, as THEY don't have any answers either. They are, in fact, contributing to the decline. Adding yet more 'free-trade' agreements..... and choking the life out of various industries with their "green" policies.

 

The GOP IS in decline. At this point, they are changing their positions on a fair few of their 'core values', in the hopes of picking up a few votes. All of which will be in vain. Their BEST hope for a resurgence in '14 is for the dems to do something truly stupid, like draconian gun-control laws..... that will get folks more pissed at the dems, than they currently are at the repubbies.

 

HeyYou, my thoughts,

 

1. according to the US constitution, provided below for your perusal:

Section 2: House of Representatives Clause 1: Composition and election of Members

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

Section Two provides for the election of the House of Representatives every second year. Since Representatives are to be "chosen... by the People," State Governors are not allowed to appoint temporary replacements when vacancies occur in a state's delegation to the House of Representatives; instead, the Governor of the state is required by clause 4 to issue a writ of election calling a special election to fill the vacancy.

 

Don't believe me. Look it up.

 

2. You are correct in that we have limited choices in our selection of representatives. However, if they do not vote to do what we want, then we always have the option to replace them in the next election. continuously revolving elected officials have little chance to establish that long term power base. It is all about how determined the voters are to get what they want. I agree that most people know little about their representatives. Most have no idea how they voted or even how much they were at work. the uneducated/ uncaring voters are the friend of any controlling minority. perhaps we should force candidates to swear under oath that they would vote they way they promised. Fail to vote as promised. Go to jail for perjury. Interesting concept but very confining.

 

3. Unfortunately, we live in a global economy. The US produces more of some items than they consume. They have to be sold globally and have to compete against goods produced by those of a lower standard of living. That is reality. If our products are not vastly better, then they will not sell and they will not be needed. Companies do not continue to produce more product than they can sell very long before they go broke. Hence, fewer jobs, lower pay, less benefits. Service/people jobs are even worse. Lets say I need an English speaking telephone operator to take international orders in a call center that support 50 international corporations. Why would I, as a CEO pay 10000 Americans 10.00 per hour to man that call center at a cost of $800000 per day when I can go to an English speaking foreign country and hire 10000 of their citizens to work for 10.00 per day at a cost of $100000 per day. And that doesn't even bring into account required US benefits. I, as the CEO, have now lowered my operating costs by $700000 per day, which I can now take as increased profit and offer more companies use of my call center for far lesser rates than my American competitors. I am going to get a big bonus for saving the corporation a huge amount of money and increasing profits. Unlike other areas of the world, Americans cannot be forced to buy goods and services from only Americans. This is not a closed system. We are going to LOSE unskilled and semi-skilled job overseas. It has happened, It is happening, and it will happen in the future. That is reality and you can do nothing to stop it. We have priced ourselves out of a job. Free-trade agreements are not the demon you think they are. If I told you that you were going to lose an item no matter what you did, but then offered you a chance to gain an edge in selling me an item that would put your competitors at a disadvantage in competing with you, would you agree? Think about it.

 

America has always used its economic power in the world to force others to do what we want them to. Sad fact. Our current policies of demonizing the rich and business has driven both away. Free stuff is an illusion just like health care. Everything has to be paid for. What happens when those who you want to pay simply move or move their money where it cannot be touched. You don't get to have it. If you can't pay then you have debt. Debt is not good. Debt does not inspire confidence. Debt is self-destructive. We are now in serious economic debt and that translates into a decreased ability to influence others to buy our products and do what we want.

 

You are spot on on the stock market. The strength of the stock market is that weak, dead wood companies, have been wiped out and replaced. The only thing that the stock market shows is the willing of people to risk their money in only those corporations on the stock market. There are, of course, external factors such as tax rate, which affect that investor willingness. Only the most naive of people would tie the success or failure of the government's economic policies to the growth of the stock market.

 

The only unemployment figure that I would believe from the government is one calculated against the manner in which the great depression unemployment numbers were calculated. Their current numbers have zero credibility with me. Since everyone is keen on how much better we are than under G. Bush. Maybe we should use the same number he used in say 2002 to calculate. Or maybe even 1984 number calculation from the Reagan era. Just one calculation that doesn't change. If I am capable of work, and am not working, I am unemployed. period. How's that. simple. Look that up for a good laugh on the comparable current figures.

 

The answer is hard, but simple. Stop spending on things not critical to the US. Stop giving away free stuff. if it is not in the US or state constitution, You have no right to it. IT is CHARITY.

 

I know that many of you have flown on commercial airliners and might have even listened to the flight attendant give their briefing on oxygen. When the oxygen mask comes down, you put your own mask on first. You don't put the mask on the 5 year old setting next to you first or the 65 year grandma sitting on the other side. You put your own mask on first. If you don't, depending on the size of the hole in the aircraft, you may only have seconds before you go unconscious and die. At that point you are no help to anyone.

 

The US is in an economic rapid decompression and some hard choices have to be made.

 

Just my opinion. Cheers!!!! V/R MistTiger