New Member - Saying Hello

[Striker879]

Pretty sure that SKSE64 works the same as OBSE in so far as it keeps it's script extender specific save info in a co-save.

 

To explain, in Oblivion the vanilla game saves your progress in a save file with the ESS file extension (e.g. MySave09.ess). Once you install Oblivion Script Extender (OBSE) you will now see a second save file each time you save (so now it'll be MySave10.ess and MySave10.obse).

 

After you get your load order set up and want to continue that previous character it's just a matter of copying the backed up save into your saves folder, start the game and then save. You should now have both a new save plus the SKSE64 co-save.

 

Some caveats on saves and mods, but first a bit of background on what your "menu screen" mods are (I believe). Those will be Creation Club (aka CC content), which are mods same as from here except they are only available via the Bethesda site (and from what I've gathered reading, only available via the in-game menu). I can't say for certain how that is handled by MO2 ... maybe something to get some info on beforehand.

 

The reason you may want to find out more about that is because your character's current saves are dependent on that CC content. Now sometimes, depending on what a mod does or changes you can still use a save that includes a mod that is no longer in your load order. The game will alert you to missing content but it will load fine and allow you to carry on. Other times you'll be stopped dead in your tracks until you re-install the missing mod(s).

 

Like I've said in the past, one of the big things that the MO/Vortex crowd tout is the "clean Data folder". If you need to have that CC content in order to continue your character's saves then you'll either need to find a way to migrate the CC stuff off your data folder and into the MO2 virtual file system or live with a "dirty" Data folder (taking on a little of my dinosaur ways so to speak).

 

I'm an experienced retired guy these days ... just a little over 12 years experienced. Before too much longer maybe I'll achieve "old hand" status.

[xInfaRedx]

Got it. Thanks man, that info was priceless. And good to know there is a possibility it will work. I get it, launching then saving will write/save the new way onto/into the old way. (in a sense).

 

And yes, I totally get the idea behind it possibly not working due to my current CC Mods. But let me explain something to you there, which might help. These mods seem to be very un-temperamental as I been testing them by disabling them all, running for a while, saving, then loading and activating them playing, save again. etc.. In every instance the saves and the game is fine.

 

It seems these CC Mods are Bethesda approved cause #1, no adult content and #2 they are just fool proof. (but thats prob why I can't get the cool ones I want ! haha). What I am getting at, is unless I am mistaken, I bet if I disable and remove all them, then save the game before I strip everything down and use that save in the newly installed set up, it is possible it will be seen as a clean vanilla save and work just fine. No missing files cause no mods. (hopefully.)

 

I will just use the Nexus versions of each mod I want again (which will only be like 3-4) that I have now. And fresh instal them, as again, hopefully the save will be seen as never having a mod attached to it.

 

I also want to stress the fact that I will not be entirely upset if it don't work. I'll just start over. But I'd like to try. Thanks again for the info. It did help. Great way to explain it too.

[Striker879]

That method you describe is called a "clean save" (when you deactivate, save without the mod active and then uninstall). For the full deal meal version you make another final squeaky-clean save after the uninstall (primarily if you're an Nth degree sort). I didn't know that you could get regular Nexus versions of the CC content ... I was under the impression that CC content was exclusive to only Bethesda.

 

The people who make CC content are modders, many from here. It's Bethesda's way of getting content, for which they pay the modder a nominal fee (as far as I know a one time fee, Bethesda are the only ones running the constant revenue stream scam).

 

The devil is always in the details, but you are the sort equipped to deal with that.

[xInfaRedx]

Ahhh, yes even better added idea. I save once I run the clean save on the newly installed steam/skyrim location. And at that point still no mods yet. I'll do that before I even instal MO II or SKSE64, etc.. so super squeaky clean. THANKS for that extra bit of info there.

 

Well I am not sure about all the mods there. But the ones I am running I checked and they seem to also all be on Nexus as well. So I thought thats just how it is.

 

I tell you, I know a lot of computer wizards like yourself rightfully think the CC is crap and a laymen mod way of doing things. (I am the same way when lame new young "musicians" make music with no instruments ! and even worse get popular !). BUT to me its a roadway to the future. Its proof that if a true development team got together and incorporated the modding organizers concept INTO the heart of their game from the ground up, AND then the individual rouge modders out there had a new way to design the mods so that it doesn't need to be a convoluted super hard thing to do with tons of different prerequisite things to instal and get to work together. As the CC is literally click once and complete instal of a mod is 100% done and applied properly, organize load order and its a wrap. 100% runs perfect immediately. I love it and love how easy it was. Its proof that if done *together* with a big company designing the ability into their game then it can indeed be a snap to instal and run.

 

Thats how I expected the whole thing to be. And I know it could be one day. The "Mod Organizers era" (the one we are in now) is just a bridge to what I expect to happen one day, from the previous way of doing it, which was mandatory all manual. Its ok though, cause the way mods came to be wasn't company related, but rather individual people fixing the company release ! lol So it makes sense why they are kinda messy. Too many cooks in the kitchen in this case = too many micro steps to make it work, cause everything is/was a unexpected file/script to enter the companies finished product.

 

But if there is one thing I know, its predicting trends and seeing them unfold. And sir... modding is getting so big that I predict one day game developer teams will just incorporate the easy breezy way for everyone to do it within their game from day one. Also the individual people (rouge modders) will also invent something along side the incorporated modding engine within the new game as I predict that makes it easier for the end customer/player as well now that the ability is built in.

 

Mark my words. I just feel this is all going to get real easy within the next 5-10 years. And actually literally a expected practice to do with games. So to be more popular the companies WILL incorporate this invention I predict within their development. Warnings for adult content possibilities able to be added on, and everyone is safe and all good.

[Striker879]

Oh trust me ... I know what's coming (do a little Google drive by on the term "Wabbajack", and I'm not referring to any Daedric staff). Dark0ne and team are working on their own flavour. I'm just not onboard that train yet. Yes it will make "modding bigger", but I'm not a big believer that bigger is better ... it's just bigger.

 

Ever notice how even with all the advances in automobile technology we still have repair shops? Guess I won't run out of troubleshooting threads to keep me occupied.

 

Don't read too much into Bethedsa's role in the CC content stuff. Sure they'll have some people working on it, but my bet is those people are primarily CC server curators. The content itself is just regular folks who have some talent at creating mods (and who have signed a NDA with Bethesda ... so you don't know until you're in, and then mum's the word and the rest of us can continue being mushrooms in Bethesda's garden shed). I'm sure Bethesda has somebody doing the vetting, which you don't get here as of this time (except in the many and various opinions that everybody has of course ... but you know what is said about opinions and what everybody also has).

 

The point of the final clean save is so that any assets that the uninstalled mod may have left in your saves are well and truly gone. When you deactivate a mod all of it's assets (meshes, textures, new world spaces ... the entire enchilada) are still sitting there in your Data folder ... when uninstalled they're not. Granted some of my dinosaur ways will not be pertinent in the MO2/Vortex virtual drive/install world.

 

Gotta' give us dinosaurs something to grumble about ... otherwise how would you know we're dinosaurs, right??

 

- Edit -Nice job in your Installation Questions thread ... you have a little of the diplomat thread weaving through your weft. Makes the sail hang nicely with good shape ... it'll generate good lift.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Striker879

[xInfaRedx]

Aint that the truth ! Bigger isn't better, just bigger.

 

But easier might equal better for the end game player. Mod authors and game developers ? well that IDK. Its always a double edged sword.

 

Hey, very interesting side note here - Breeze shooting if you will. Lets get into a legal aspect outlook thing going on here.. And possibly is this the REAL reason Bethesda is taking over twice as long in releasing VI than it did for Oblivion and Skyrim ? Mods were not as big, if not at all for Morrowind's release. So thats explains that. They were barely around but considered almost taboo for Oblivion's release. So thats why that release went so smooth.. Skyrim's release they were around, maybe less taboo, but still were not trusted nor needed - ... so that release went smooth as well.

 

But when VI comes.. oh man...Bethesda will of course try to, think to develop the next installment with the thoughts of "no reason to mod", as we will just make the best game ever !!! lol Of course, but we know how that goes. Improvements can always be done later, (but thats always hindsight, so forgivable). To achieve this, they will think to just simply take all the best current mods done so far (menu, immersive'ness, movement, and organizational mods, etc..) and make the next game be that way from the start. I think this is obvious and classic company style - steal ideas from the customers to make your product better. Spend less on QA and testing that way ! lol Fix with a update after the customers tell us what's wrong ! Yay !

 

Anyway, doing that... (and Im sure they will) I'm curious if any mod author has the business sense enough to patent their mod NOW in the way they can. It can not be a full patent, but there is a such thing as a patent that uses another invention and slightly changes it. The owner will have a patent on the changes only. If anyone has done this, Bethesda will have a hard time incorporating that "most popular, so must include mod" without paying that mod author as part of the team.

 

SkyUI and ImmersiveHUD I believe (and I am sure everyone else will too) is the two that will absolutely either be incorporated into VI verbatim, or Bethesda will steal the idea and tweak it a bit for it to be their own legally. My point here is... Is this what is taking so long ? I heard interviews with Bethesda and they claim its other things, but I don't listen to that. I think its more what I am saying. Its going to be a legal nightmare to do it right, as the fans/mod author wizards are really the best development team and proved it !

 

Yes thank you for the kind words about the other thread. At this point I am pretty sure I got the correct way to do it. Or try it at first. So at this point, I'm just trying to make sure any thread questions I've asked have a good content to them to help the next person.

[Striker879]

Well as AnJen said, people who come back and update current status are rare indeed. For the most part the OPs only come back if they have more questions/unresolved issues ... otherwise it's poof central.

 

I don't have any stake in next titles from the ES series (if I'm not a potential customer for ES V I sure won't be top of the list for ES VI) but that doesn't mean I don't have opinions and expectations of what may come to pass. I personally think Bethesda fixes those bugs that they have almost no other choice but fix and the rest get ignored in favour of spending all their time at raking in money and spending zilch.

 

The next title will have mods and microtransactions because those equal Mo Money. Maybe they're taking so long because they have too thick a stream of gold coming in already. Hunger isn't a completely bad thing.

 

The EULA for the Construction Set/Creation Kit are pretty clear ... modder owns the assets they create and Bethesda own the game IP and tools used to create it. Stuff created with non-Bethesda tools are the creator's IP (within the EULA of the tool used to create it). You can be sure that if Bethesda wanted something a user created with their tools they'd find a way to make it theirs at little or no cost to themselves. That's business.

 

Commonly held notions of right and wrong have no brook in that situation ... more money for Bethesda equals right, less money for Bethesda equals wrong. Easy to figure out.

[xInfaRedx]

Yea I'm not holding my breath for VI to be great. But it very well has the ability to. Especially if they put a lot into it like they usually do. I hate micro transactions. But its unfortunately the way now. Nothing can be done about that. And as much as it sucks it also has benefits to customers as well. Want something new ? No longer get in your car and drive to GameStop to purchase it and drive back home. No.. just buy it without moving ! Thats nice.

 

House got robbed, and all your stuff stole ? (like happened to me 3 times so far) - Old school way, your games are gone. Gotta buy them again. New way - you still have them ! Cause you never physically owned them in the first place. Its a double edged sword for sure.

 

Here is what I got to say about it. IF done right, its actually a great concept. I know people here especially think FortNite sucks. lol And for the most part visually it does. but they set up a system that is truly optional about purchasing. There is no and I repeat no benefit or advantage gameplay wise a player gets from purchasing things. The micro transactions offered are all purely cosmetic to your character and offer no advantage over another player ever when in a match.

 

Thats micro transactions done right. And some will say, then the company will never make any money. Well go take a look at the most successful video game lately. Making Forbes magazine. Yep, you guessed it, its Fortnite. So that proves the structure they set up works for both.

 

What I don't like is when micro transactions are *needed* to either progress or to be able to do anything you otherwise couldn't. That is a broken structure for the customer but not the company, and that IMO is the bad ways of doing it. Fortnite was genius because they made sure the advantage wasn't there (but admittedly the difference is, the style of the Battle Royal game makes "progress" N/A) for purchasing micro transactions. How to make money then to stay alive ? - well they made all players fiend to get that new skin or weapon wrap or emote (the emote idea was purely genius and changed the world). Now not every game needs to be Fortnite, BUT I do feel any old school game developers like Bethesda that are trying to step into this new age micro transactions structure should learn and take notes from FortNite.

 

(not to mention I am sure that their new 3D engine "Unreal 5" will be used by lots of game developers. Have you looked into that ? I never knew it, but Epic Games is more than just Fortnite. They have their own 3D engine and its actually pretty popular. Check it out in the link below. Make sure you got it on HD and full screen and wait for the HD'ness to load/catch up. It's amazing.

 

Thats why Fortnite, even though though purely reaction/speed based where FPS and hz are the key, and movement is unparalleled due to the competitive importance looks so good in comparison to how it should (usually games like that have to look very very bad). Well they use the older Unreal Engine 4 I think for that still. And purposely keep the 3D rendering and eye candy extremely minimal due to the importance on speed performance in Battle Royale.

 

Anyway, I hate to say it, but Bethesda's 3D Engine IMO is kinda dated. The physics always been weird. Looked stunning for 2011. Sure. But right now, Unreal 5 is king IMO. (Side tracked I know, but wanted to point out that all is not bad in the new world if done right). Companies can still get their greedy billions while customers can be happy !

 

The other unlikely option, but hopeful is Bethesda sticks to a $60 game, that gives you the whole game with only OPTIONAL purchases later for cosmetic things or new areas or quests on the map (Im ok with those too, it makes sense if the original game is huge and satisfactory and then they add DLC to it. I'll pay for that).

 

 

[xInfaRedx]

BTW, no, thats not a film video cam of some chick in a cave up above there - Thats a preview of a UNFINISHED video game you're looking at !!

[Striker879]

Ya I've been familiar with Unreal and Unreal engined games since the very first Unreal (which predated Unreal Tournament if memory serves). UT is what I migrated to after I tired of Team Fortress Classic and all the bunny hopping/demo-man spamming\sniper stuff. You always knew what Striker was going to be doing ... going for the flag, trying to get it back, calling out for backup with info on where it was when I got capped. Then it became that the only player on the map who was actually trying to play was Striker, dodging bunny hopping or grenade spamming weirdos and trying to figure out where the 4.5 billion snipers were hiding so I could get to the flag.

 

That was back in the early days of the decline, before the crowd I refer to as the "lowest common denominator" completely took over the planet.

 

Gameplay and story are the only hooks that have any chance of catching a Striker Bass ... I'm for the most part unaware of graphics if you do those right. The other lure that may have a chance (if you have it handy in the tackle box) is tools that I can use to tweak and twiddle around with my own ideas.

 

Bethesda comes pretty close to my sweet spot in Oblivion, not perfect by any means but certainly on target on each point.

 

Way back at the dawn of time Origin Systems' Privateer had me, but today I realise they weren't that much on target so much as I was a wide eyed with wonder newbie to RPG. Oblivion reawakened the wonder that had been sucked out of me by online gaming and repetittious first person shooters (and I even lump DOOM and Quake into that basket). Then when I discovered the Construction Set I was gone for good.

 

Like I said, I'm a decade into the trip and unsure whether or not I'm even close to the halfway point yet.

 

- Edit - Ya ... parkour games + Striker = the center point of that triangle I was telling you about. Nice graphics, and I would certainly consider buying an Oblivion port to that engine. Fortunately I won't need to budget any Strker gold to that end, as I know the chances of Bethesda doing that are also at the center of my fabled traingle.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Striker879