New Member - Saying Hello

[Striker879]

Same as everybody else, all I have for certain is this next second (as I'm indoors sitting at my computer, not currently experiencing any physical distress). Guess that's partly why I live in the moment (in the next short while I'll be headed to the grocery store ... will I come home from there, and if so will I be bringing home just groceries or more than groceries ... uncertainty abounds in time that extends even a short distance into the future).

 

I've watched a number of videos (can't recall the presenter's name off-hand) that compared the various entries in the ES saga and pointed out how each represents a mere subset of what the previous title held in term of gameplay and story. My own "sticking with Oblivion" isn't rooted in that, but it does play into my choices regarding the ES series. What if I played Morrowind (i.e. not Morroblivion) and doing so allowed me to see Oblivions shortcomings (or see them more clearly I guess as I am aware that Oblivion is not perfect). Much of what I see in Morrowind's gameplay mechanics (really ... chance based hit chance ... Todd, couldn't you think of something a bit better??) tells me that I would find plenty to be unimpressed by in Morrowind.

 

Considering that "pretty pictures" do little to mask things from my eyes I'm quite certain that Skyrim would be an overall disappointment for me. I'm not disenchanted or "feeling left behind" with being stuck in Oblivion ... after all I'm the one who sent me there.

[xInfaRedx]

Yea I seriously doubt you'd like Morrowind better than Oblivion due to them shortcomings I was saying. That was my whole point. Even with each shortcoming, no matter what, the next game is always more enjoyable to play than the last. Don't know why, but it is, trust me. Even with all the short comings YouTube presenters point out. At least IMO. But that realization only happens once you give it a chance.

 

I'm not sure what MorrOblivion is, but I imagine from the name it is a mod that kinda blends the two ? Cool ! Me, I like vanilla games as far as the bigger things. Just to feel it how the developers intended. I'm here for small change mods only. And prob max about 5-10 mods. (so ultimately my learning curve will be easier too).

 

Here is how I looked at it. After I stopped listening to the boo hoo'ers and people presenting each new installment as worse than the last, I played each one in order (very important) anyway. I found, yes, agreeing with them, it sucks that a few things were changed, **BUT what was new about it over-rode those shortcomings enough to make the game not only worth it, but over time, better.**

 

I had complaints about Morrowind compared to Daggerfall. Same ones them boo hoo presenters had. Yes. But after about 100hrs on Morrowind... No sir, could NEVER go back. Heres the kicker = The same exact thing happened with EACH installment. I could never play any more Morrowind after I picked up Oblivion. I could most likely never play Oblivion again once I picked up Skyrim, etc..

 

To explain personal preference a bit further, so you understand the point and what might happen to you too is - I was so happy to get away from the overly "devilish" type theme and devil/hell red tint visual settings. The Mordor knock off oblivion passages and red tint dimension was such a literal headache to me that the shortcomings of Skyrim from Oblivion was easily overlooked. Matter fact, I now see no shortcomings at all. I like every bit of Skyrim better than any older version. (I know, me personally, but I do).

 

The changes make sense to me now and are ok. I like it now. I just wish there was less snow and less storms/weather changes maybe is all. I personally like beautiful nice calm settings, green, lush, etc.. Weather changes are nice, but I feel they happen a bit too much. In my real life the weather barely changes, its *visually* the same for the majority of the year. When it changes, it does so shortly, then comes back in a few days. Anywhere close to the Ocean is like that. And IMO, the entire Tamrial continent is close enough to the oceans to have much more calm weather changes (visually, as temperature is another thing).

 

And yes, there are a few things I miss. But you got to pick your poison, and if so, I'll take this over the other with its shortcomings.

 

I feel you will therefore like Oblivion always better than Morrowind once you play Morrowind. So I wouldn't worry. Play it !! And yes I am telling you dude, same with Skyrim. I don't know what it is that got you against it, but I'd give it a whirl after Morrowind. Why not ? My rule = Try not to pass judgment off boo hoo articles, reviews and youtuber presentations until you physically put 100hrs on it yourself.

 

But to each their own right ? Plus I know time is a huge issue.

 

Hey, BTW, what mod organizer do you use ?

[Striker879]

My Mark I Gray Lump is my mod manager of choice for installation. I have a few mods installed via Wrye Bash, but primarily it is only used for the bashed patch. I am well known as a self proclaimed dinosaur.

 

Maybe if Skyrim ever comes available on GOG I might consider it ... notice the italics (i.e. don't hold your breath). Steam and I had a difference of opinion way back not long after it's inception, so the chances of me buying the game from them are at the center of a triangle defined by the three points named zero, zilch and nada. Actually the Morrowind disk (a gift) requires Steam for activation so it's unlikely to see my hard drive other than possibly as a resource source for Morroblivion (haven't spent any time looking into what may or may not be possible). The only Steam account I will ever have is the Steam Support account that I've had since the time they started up the company.

 

I don't form my opinions from what others say ... I do use what others say as a guide to my own investigations though. When I'm watching a Skyrim playthrough video more often than not I have the sound turned off (so I don't need to listen to the presenter drone on and on, or explain how they don't know how this or that works). I'm watching how the game is played (e.g. combat, leveling etc). What I have seen so far concerning Skyrim gameplay hasn't piqued my interest (including Joseph Russell's Lucien videos, about the only ones I watch with sound).

 

I'm an edge case. If game companies consulted with me and produced games based on my input they'd have a single sale for their efforts, not the millions they all desire.

[xInfaRedx]

 

I am well known as a self proclaimed dinosaur.

 

... notice the italics (i.e. don't hold your breath)

 

the chances of me buying the game from them are at the center of a triangle defined by the three points named zero, zilch and nada.

 

If game companies consulted with me and produced games based on my input they'd have a single sale for their efforts

 

Haha ! Hilarious ! Great wording man, I admire and respect it all !

 

 

 

I don't form my opinions from what others say ... I do use what others say as a guide to my own investigations though.

 

Totally get that. Thats good too. I do the same. But I do have to admit I think I accidentally do fall for their advice and opinions at first. Which is why for me personally I made that rule of thumb I was saying.

 

 

 

My Mark I Gray Lump is my mod manager of choice for installation. I have a few mods installed via Wrye Bash, but primarily it is only used for the bashed patch.

 

Steam and I had a difference of opinion way back not long after it's inception. The only Steam account I will ever have is the Steam Support account that I've had since the time they started up the company.

 

Dang I never even heard of those Mod Managers. Are they better/the best ? From my research I kinda gathered Mod Organizer II is the best. Especially once it got its support team back so its technically still supported now and not going anywhere. BUT I still do not have a mod manager so I can change my mind at any time.

 

Wow, so what happened with Steam ? Honestly all these places are new to me. I just downloaded Steam for the first time ever to get back into Skyrim via PC. Before that I've been disc on Xbox kinda guy. I didn't like the idea of it, but it seems to be the only place to get all the good titles and competitive pricing, etc.. So I took the plunge.

 

Whats the issue with it ?

Edited July 16, 2020 by xInfaRedx

[Striker879]

To me Steam epitomizes the worst of what happens when profit is the primary (and perhaps only) motive. When Valve created the company it was under the premise of stopping online game cheating and game piracy. Then they caught on that it was also a gold mine, platinum mine and diamond mine all rolled into one (i.e. their license to print money). They started with the promise of stopping piracy (a promise they have obviously never fulfilled) then as game companies moved away from hard media distribution they incorporated their digital distribution pitch.

 

Today my biggest beef with them is how they do as they please. Here's an example:

 

Many Oblivion mods depend on a method called BSA Redirection as their form of archive invalidation (which is a way to get the game to use assets that replace vanilla game assets that are in the game BSA files like Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa without using an ESP to direct the game to the replacements). BSA Redirection (the newest of the methods tried by the modding community over the years) requires that the vanilla game BSAs all be their original file date (i.e. year 2006). Steam changes all the file dates to modern dates, thus breaking BSA Redirection for their hapless users. Steam knows about it but has no intention of changing (the old my way or the highway attitude).

 

Contrast this with Good Old Games (GOG). When GOG got distribution rights to Oblivion they had the same problem (modern dates on the BSA files). As soon as they were alerted to the problem they changed the file dates back to year 2006 ... problem solved.

 

GOG relies on customer good will to promote and expand their business. To Steam their end user customers simply represent andother revenue stream (i.e. more pockets to grub around in). Their business model rakes money in from the front end, the middle and the back end.

 

My own isue with them wasn't related to todays situation directly, but what they have evolved into certainly hasn't regained them any of the points they lost with me via the customer support.

 

I'm a poor choice for mod manager advice. For one I'm Oblivion only focused, plus I believe that mod managers are part of the reason we have so many people who are "experienced modders" that can't solve even the simplest problems. Use a mod manager and all you learn about modding is how to use the mod manager ... doesn't matter how long you "mod".

 

Learn to manually install mods and you can do anything you want. Feeling a bit bored, pick up whatever the latest flavour of mod manager that is being foisted to the masses and play around with it. You'll know immediately what it does well and where it's shortcomings lay as you know what it is supposed to do to get mods installed properly.

 

If all you know how to do is press the "Download with Manager" button then all you know about the process is that button on the site interface that says "Download with Manager" ... well that's the one you click. Whether or not the mod works is completely in a different universe to those people.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Striker879

[xInfaRedx]

Ahhh, yea I get it. Bad experience with CS, then to add insult to injury, they evolved into a Corporate Demon.

 

Man, welcome to about 90% of all companies I have to buy from on a daily basis ! haha. So I totally feel you.

 

Sorry to hear about them experiences. Steam is completely new to me. My first and only experience with them so far is me downloading the Steam App and then buying Skyrim SE, Red Dead Redemption 2 and GTA series. So I can not speak on them yet, but so far so good from my experience. I don't really know any better choices I would trust for the genres/stuff I like.

 

Yea this modding thing IMO, I almost could leave. As I really enjoy the vanilla games and experiencing the game as originally intended. So I plan to keep it that way OTHER than bug fixes and menu and texture improvements (due to it being a 10 year old game, I think that's justifiable to keep it alive for me). What I don't need is my characters to get any cheats , any bigger boobs or prettier faces or new weird amour/weapons, etc.. That stuff is kinda funny to me, a little geeky even (but more power to them types). I just wanna keep it simple and make the vanilla game run right and look best to todays standards. Cause I like the original game and experience that went along with it so much. (this goes for all games)

 

So for someone like me, and my personal RL daily duties, I need a Mod Manager, cause I really just want the whole process to be simple as possible so I can game ! Not compute. But I see your point, Mod Managers seem to have made a "genius" out of everyone. Yet oddly that genius isn't always so smart. LOL :D

[Striker879]

I'm not really complaining ... heck they keep me "in business". I wouldn't have learned half what I know if I'd had to make my own mistakes. It is kinda' "generous" of them to share something as valuable as mistakes with the likes of me, so I'm not looking in any mouths. By and large the ones I've tried to help are decent folks (like you), they just have a different set of priorities than me. I'm certain of one thing ... my priorities are right for exactly one person, no more, no less.

 

Things are quite a bit quieter on the Oblivion part of the Nexus since the Skyrim crowd took over, so you see me poking my nose in other corners of the site now (like here). If I notice your name bubble to the top of the Nexus Site Forums or Commenting posts you can bet I'll be taking a peek to see what mischief you're getting into.

[xInfaRedx]

Thanks for all the info and chat ! For sure please keep a eye out on my other posts and maybe try to get the ball rolling. No one is answering me now.

 

I might just do this all on my own with youtube I guess. My set up is new enough that I wouldn't freak out if I had to wipe everything and start over clean, lol So what's the worse that could happen ? I got my Skyrim saves backed up.

 

Thanks again man ! Can't believe we did 2 pages of breeze shooting ! haha So far you're the only one responding to me on this site :sad:

[Striker879]

Another possible option would be Vortex. It is being developed by the same person responsible for Mod Organiser and Mod Organiser 2 (Tannin42) ... he's just getting paid for what was done for free before. As a result of my dinosaur ways I'm not up to speed on all of it's ins and outs but it has much in common with MO2 (the whole "clean Data" folder thing and the like). I'm sure you'll see plenty of posts regarding using it to install Skyrim/SE mods on those forums. HadToRegister is one of the go to guys regarding Vortex questions.

 

- Edit - Yes, at times I can drone on and on.

 

- Edit 2 - Had a peek at your "Newbie would like help ..." thread. Only advice I can give isn't related to a solution but rather more along the "presentation" lines.

 

Slip into your thicker skin for a moment (if you don't mind) ... I'm merely giving a view from a different perspective. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it wrong, but it is what I see from where I sit.

 

As is the case with your original post here, there is a tone that will discourage many from answering. I hestitate to label it demanding, as in my eyes it isn't, but that is perhaps because I know where you're coming from. It is very specific as to the exact "flavour" of help you request though, and many will be put off by that.

 

I'm more an opposite case type guy, so I found it nice to know exactly what you were after, in fact I purposely waited before replying because I knew what I had to offer wasn't inline with what you were seeking (I often wonder whether or not my posting in somebody's question inhibits others from joining in ... though Lord knows I've often enough said "It takes a team to troubleshoot").

 

If you look, most help/advice request offer little or no information in the original post ... more often than not it is simply "Halp my game don't work", leaving it up to those who will help to drag the pertinent info from them one bit at a time (at times a very laborious process). I'm not suggesting sliding into those clothes (heck they wouldn't fit or look good on you anyway).

 

I'm a bit of a fisherman. Presentation of the bait/lure is important. In general people respond to questions, but the questions need to allow room for their answers.

 

Example ... "What mod organiser do you recommend" will get answers. Granted not answers specific to the direction you would like to go, but the answers allow a starting place for discussion. The "Wrye Bash" answer would allow a further question of "Why do you recommend Wrye Bash", to which the answer may be "BAIN installs allow you to remove mods, and anneal fixes all previous overwrites". That then allows the question "Doesn't Mod Organiser 2 have something similar, at least in function" (notice how I didn't set the hook immediately ... bait needs to in the mouth first).

 

Yes, I tend to be a bit of a thinker, and one of my favourite "mind games" is trying on shoes. Not my own, or even my size ... whatever somebody else wears will do.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Striker879

[xInfaRedx]

lol - Absolutely great direction here. Agree 100% and thanks ! Let me respond in order though.

 

Yes I definitely heard of Vortex, and NMM. The 3 (MO II, NMM and Vortex) seem to be the main billboard top 40's hit mod managers, lol (if you will). I also learned about the history of each one. I am leaning towards MO II because all the dudes who has SkyrimSE looking the best and have the most educated skillful presentations recommend MO II and their reasons are far beyond my knowledge right now to rely, I trust it.

 

(but I could be wrong) -

 

But supposedly MO I was abandoned sort of, but still reigned king by most. The dude went to Vortex as you said. But due to the high demand of MO I and more people liking it still, a new team picked it up and now MO II with support exists and according to my research will be staying around as long as the rest. According to the guys I kinda look up to on the subject (so far), it just is the best.

 

BUT - again, I have a open mind on this. The issue though is once I got the instals all down properly I plan to follow modding ideas from those guys I like (Ai Cave, MxR Mods, etc..) and they all use MO II. So its really steering me towards it and it only. Also the learning curve is so severe with this stuff, I'd like to only know one instrument, cause once you do that you're the best at it, opposed to knowing a few instruments and being so so at them all.

 

About the posting suggestion, - WOW - Dude, absolutely excellent advice. And I know what you're saying. I have that issue where I am a detailed guy. I present things how me as a helper would like to see them so I can help you immediately with one answer quickly IF I can. Them details help me know if I should pass on helping you or not.

 

The issue I've noticed with that is exactly as you say. For some odd reason, everyone is not like me (too bad right ?? haha) and they like the hook and bait situation, that draws things out and makes things take longer than they should.

 

I also notice younger people are funny how they like shorter paragraphs to no paragraph at all ! WTF ? Thats not my style. I love it when people write DETAILS to me so I can truly help and respond properly. Them one liners are a example of this Attention Deficit Disorder culture we live in today. BUT all the negative aside trying to prove why I am the way I am... the bottom line is you are right.

 

When in Rome .. right ??? Talk like a cave man and I will get more response. lol So funny.

 

Anyway, my opinions aside, I want to say I agree with you and you are right and thanks for having the testicular fortitude to call me out on it. I truly appreciate it. I forget over and over thats how it is and I always like to explain, cause thats how I like it in reverse (treat others as you wish to be treated right ?)