SSE Textures and alpha problem with a banner.

[cumbrianlad]

Aloha! (I'm still trying not to start my posts with 'Hi!')

 

I've an issue that I hadn't noticed before, despite making many banners. I made a banner the same way I'd done them in the past with no problems, but this one looks wrong. In all likelihood, the rest of my banners suffer from the same issue but it just isn't noticeable.

 

Take a look at the image. The distinctly yellow areas are where the original 'GenericBanner01' has alpha, of that I'm certain.

 

It seems that when making the image (In Paint.net), however I try to merge the symbol with the original banner, it eliminates the alpha property of the original layer. I've tried it all sorts of ways with no better result.

 

How I make them...

 

1) Use a generic banner diffuse map as a template.

2) Add new layers in Paint.net for text, images etc

3) Adjust the blending mode for each layer and the transparency.

4) Save as DXT5, since transparency is involved.

5) Make a new texture set in CK

6) Make a new movable static in CK.

7) Add the items in CK.

 

Any ideas? I could simply adjust the diffuse map to make it look right, as in this case I want a flawless banner with no holes, but I want to know why this isn't working for future reference.

 

 

This banner was made exactly the same way as my other banners, but I can't see the same fault with them.

[Hanaisse]

Did you zero out the alpha cutoff on your placed banner?

 

(Open the ref properties of the banner, Extra tab. They are set with alpha cutoff 85 for the holes, change it to zero and see if that helps)

[cumbrianlad]

If you are referring to the 'Alpha Cut-Off' in CK, after it's placed, editing this simply exposes more holes around the areas that the bright yellow patches are.

 

Like I said, the yellow patches are where the alpha is, in the vanilla banner.

 

Increasing the 'Alpha Cut-Off', just slowly matches the yellow patches with holes in the banner.

 

I want to know why merging layers down in image editing software results in the alpha layer being lost in the original layer.

 

It doesn't seem to have happened before. I'll look at it again, but I can't see that I've done anything different.

[cumbrianlad]

It has been happening all the time.

 

It's just that the designs/colours I've used on the other banners don't highlight the problem. I tried moving some of my other designs around and looking at the result in CK and the exact same thing happens, so I've been doing these wrong all the time and just got away with it.

 

So the question now is how do you do this properly?

 

I've tried different blend modes on the layer with the symbol on but had no joy yet. I use Paint.net

 

Edit: I'm making progress. I used the original Banner01 texture and made an alpha mask, then applied the mask to the symbol layer before flattening and saving as DXT5. While not perfect, it's not bad at all. The image below shows the left banner with alpha cutoff 50 and the right alpha cutoff 0. The discolouration is still there on the right but is barely noticeable now. The holes are appearing much better now by varying the cutoff values. With a little bit of tweaking of the alpha mask I may just get it near perfect.

 

Or at least the image would have shown this but I'm getting an error trying to upload it and a warning that "You have exceeded your allotted disk space for attachments". Never mind. deleted some very old images and it's there now.

 

I need to use the alpha mask on the text layer, too. it's worth having a go at improving the mask since I can use the same mask for every layer on every banner I make from now on. the horse colour change may have helped. I'll experiment with the mask on a yellow colour next.

 

 

[cumbrianlad]

Sorted. Sorry for adding another post, but it's to upload the images.

 

I simplified the making of the alpha mask, tidied up the rest of the banner to how I wanted it and used the simple alpha mask on the text layer and symbol layer. Now it's so close to being totally unnoticeable that I'm quite happy.

 

Here's how I made the mask in Paint.net FYI.

 

First copy the original GenericBanner01 into a new image on a new layer. the background layer is white.

Next use the effect 'Switch Alpha To Grey' on the banner layer.

Merge the layer down.

Then use the adjustment 'Invert Colours'.

Save as .png and you're done.

Any layers you use it on don't need as much transparency as you would use without the mask to get the overall effect right.

 

 

[maxarturo]

"I want to know why merging layers down in image editing software results in the alpha layer being lost in the original layer."

When you have multiple layers on your file, each of those layers / images / textures have all different ARGB channels, "every separate image can produce > has its own ARGB channel".

If you create a channel when you still have all layers on your file and then you 'Flatten' the image / file, the channel of the 'Flatten' image will be completely different from the one you first created.

If channels need to be created for the mesh to obtain attributes through the channels, like transparency or to use channels to emphasize parts of the mesh / texture that the original texture does not have, and other "attributes" (the list is way too big to start naming them all).

Those channels have to be created in the end, after you have flatten / merge all of your layers, after you have finished with the diffuse part of the diffuse map, at this point the texture can produce a completed channel as a whole and not from just one layer.

* This is how things works with professional programs, i have no idea how things works with free to use (non professional) programs that the majority of modders use.

/......................................................//...//...//........................................................./

This is just an example on how to work correctly with channels:

- The image below has details that the original texture (diffuse map) does not have and they are all created through channels.

- The 'Alpha Channel' creation was made in a separate file and then it was 'Paste' to the finilaize already flatten final map / image.

* I'm so sorry... i wrote a whole detailed 'lesson'... and in the end i realize that i don't have a single 'close up' screenshot to show how exactly this works, so i erased it, without a detailed example image all the 'lesson' it's useless.

Sorry again...

Edited July 26, 2020 by maxarturo

[cumbrianlad]

I didn't get any of that, unfortunately!

 

I got the result I was after with my method, though. It may not be the most elegant but it seems to work. It certainly eliminates the false colours as can be seen in the banner on the right. You can maybe see from the left hand image in the last post that the lettering now disappears as the alpha cutoff is increased.

[maxarturo]

"I didn't get any of that, unfortunately!"

Yeah... i was afraid that this could happen, it's very difficult to try and explain specialize things on a written post with few words.

[cumbrianlad]

Never mind. As I say, I've got it to work OK, even if my method is a bit odd!