Drake's Anthro-Dragon Race: Wing and Tail Problem

[Striker879]

Do you use the Steam version of the game?

[DrakeTheDragon]

Hmm, let's see if we can't get this explained a little more thoroughly.

 

If I got this right, you want to use the Spyro and Cynder mods, mesh and texture replacements for my Anthro-Dragon Races, I did by request some years ago.

That one's the most primitive in installation, so let's get my own mod installed and working first.

 

 

- The very first requirement, as unlikely as it may sound, is your game being officially patched to the latest version, v1.2.0416, else no scripting of mine will work, and also it's known to cause several weird and seemingly unrelated issues as the same time, when you somehow mysteriously manage to get my ESP working inside your pre-1.2 game version. So on the off chance you actually happen to not have a completely patched up game, this is always the very first thing to check.

 

- Next, which way do you use to install your mods? Is it manually, playing all files and folders into your data folder by hand? Or is it by one of the many existing mod managers out there, Nexus Mod Manager (NMM), Oblivion Mod Manager (OBMM), Wrye Bash's Bash Installer (BAIN), etc.? Or do you even happen to be using the most technically difficult of the bunch, Mod Organizer (MO)?

 

- Is it the Steam version of the game or a regular disc version install? Steam installs by design require more prerequisite steps in order to get replacement mods to work. In Oblivion file dates almost always trump just about everything else, and the BSA files coming from Steam are always dated way too recently for any kind of replacement mod ever to work, Archive Invalidation applied or not. If the game's own file is newer than your replacement, your replacement won't be used.

 

 

- Next it's also very important, if you're on a recent version of Windows, like Vista, 7, 8 or 10, and have the game installed at the default location, inside program files, and the same goes for Steam, that you will fall victim to the infamous User Account Control (UAC) and its overzealous protection of such system folders.

 

For example, it will not allow any 3rd party apps like mod managers, sometimes even packaging tools like ZIP, RAR or the like, and in rare cases even you, the user, to put any files or folders into the folders it protects, but instead moves everything into a so called "VirtualStore" folder somewhere inside your user folder, while the Windows Explorer will "pretend" it'd be exactly where you put it, if you look for it, basically lying to you, but the game cannot be fooled by this and won't find the files.

 

 

- As there's at least 2 files replacing Vanilla assets, that is the two skeleton NIFs, "meshes/characters/_male/skeleton.nif" and "meshes/characters/_1stperson/skeleton.nif", if you're using the Steam version of the game, we'll also need to take care replacement NIF files will also be used by the game, via proper Archive Invalidation measures. If you're "not" using the Steam version of the game, Archive Invalidation will only be required for textures, thus does not need to be done.

 

Archive Invalidation is telling the game which external replacement files to use over its own internal files from inside the BSA archives, or sometimes better, which of its own files to no longer use over replacement files anymore. There's been several different means to it over the history of modding this game, but the only sanely advisable one left nowadays is called BSA Redirection.

 

It can be applied through, again, several different means. The Oblivion Mod Manager (OBMM) and its Archive Invalidation Utilities has it as the default selection, Wrye Bash and its Replacer tab do the same, the Nexus Mod Manager (NMM) also has Archive Invalidation among its utilities and I think Universal, or whatever's the default, is BSA Redirection as well, and last but not least there's also the mod ArchiveInvalidationInvalidated!, and all of them do the same.

 

They all put an empty dummy BSA file (BSARedirection.bsa, ArchiveInvalidationInvalidated!.bsa, etc.) into your data folder and modify the Oblivion.ini inside your "My Games/Oblivion" folder so the sArchiveList entry has it listed at the proper place, where before the only BSA really requiring invalidation was listed, and thus removing the very need for Archive Invalidation itself entirely once and for all. This step only ever has to be done again, if for some reason either the BSA file gets removed or your Oblivion.ini gets altered so the change to sArchiveList becomes undone.

 

However, it is paramount, if BSA Redirection was applied, that you remove any and all left-over files called "Archive Invalidation.txt" found anywhere inside your game's folders, and I say "any", because some older mod managers, or manual install instructions of older mods, will have put this file into different locations, and as long as it is there it will instruct the game to use external file X over internal file X from inside the now-empty dummy BSA, which is known to cause multiple random issues in your game.

 

Oh, and one more thing, if using the game from Steam. Due to the all-too-recently dated BSA files you'll have to re-date them back to around 2006 or whenever Oblivion was originally released, either by use of a 3rd party file re-date tool I know next to nothing about, or as we're already at it, by clicking "Reset BSA timestamps" once in the Archive Invalidation Utility of OBMM before applying BSA Redirection to your game.

 

 

Now, that much for the not-so-obvious prerequisites. Next install my Anthro-Dragon Race pre-beta mod itself, either by using the FOMOD installer I included inside the NMM-ready latest release, or via BAIN as both of them are BAIN-ready as you please, or manually following my very detailed manual install instructions from inside the description page or readme. Whichever you choose, make sure all files end up exactly where they are meant to go.

 

Then you should already have a working installation of my mod and shouldn't be experiencing any mesh stretching issues due to missing skeleton bones anymore. Every other option like Growlf's Universal Skeleton NIF I mentioned above is only meant to be used, if you have to for other reasons, like if you're already using another skeleton replacement mod, or an animation or custom race mod depending on one. I should have most of these covered with my own skeletons already, Growlf's Universal Skeleton has most of my bones included as well, and if ever in doubt or experiencing issues with even that profound one, I also included an adapted version of Growlf's inside my archive there, the BAIN folders starting with "03".

 

Only once you're not experiencing any issues with my own Anthro-Dragon Race mod should you move on to the Sypro or Cynder mesh and texture replacer mods.

 

Hope it helps. Waiting for answers to my questions otherwise.

[xirtamehtsitahw]

First off, I am indeed using the Steam version, which I just purchased around 2 weeks ago. And secondly, I am attempting to use manual install methods, as this is the most direct. And thirdly, I have already attempted to replace the default skeleton with various universal ones. (the one by Growlf, yours, and the Maximum Compatibility one have all been tried, all to no avail).

 

However, your mention of the "Paranoia Folder" is quite possibly easily fixed.

 

All I'd have to do is move the entire thing to an easy to identify (and get to) folder.

 

And, ironically, I've used Mod Organizer before, and it is downright child's-play stuff for Skyrim. However...I have no clue how it would work for Oblivion.

 

UPDATE: I found a set of skeletons that seems to have fixed the wing and armblade warping issue. However, I had to remove the default clothes a character normally starts with, to get the proper appearance. Now I have a proper Cynder character.

Edited March 28, 2017 by xirtamehtsitahw

[DrakeTheDragon]

Glad to read you got everything figured out. Mind telling which set of skeletons that was? Normally all coming with my mod should have fixed that problem already, so if some did not, let me know.

 

What do you mean you had to remove the default clothes (the Sack Cloth set it is) to get the proper appearance? Do you mean your skin was still human or something while wearing the default shirt?

 

Cynder's shackles and blades have been included into the tail mesh by me, so they should be showing no matter what else you wear above. My scripts will take care all body parts will unequip unfitting items worn on them, and equip fitting adapted ones in their place where present. Only the chest by default is left untouched. The skin textures of my dragons, however, are a different story.

 

My race is based, and designed for, Robert's Male bodies and Team Fantasy Figures (TFF) female ones, and as in Oblivion your body comes with your clothes any items not made for these will cause either clipping/gap issues mesh-wise or the wrong/unfitting skin textures used. The skin textures used by each body part are defined per race, but which body part's textures are used by the mesh is defined inside the NIFs.

 

Vanilla bodies use 4 different textures for the 4 different body parts, but body replacers like the above usually use only 1, for all body parts.

 

Custom races made with specific body replacers in mind now usually have only textures for the body parts the respective body replacer uses. In case of Robert's Male and TFF that's only 1, the foot. In case of my race now it's actually 2, as I use the hand slot for the wings additionally. But as a result, if you're wearing non-fitting Vanilla items, including Vanilla body part meshes, said meshes will reference to a body part's skin texture the custom race does not provide. This usually leads to Imperial human skin textures being used instead, but sometimes it also yields a missing texture error alike.

 

That's why I always tell people the use of so called Stock Clothing and Armor Replacers when using body mods is, despite commonly spread misinformation to the opposite, "not" optional at all. You "can" get away with the slightly unfitting meshes or the slightly mismatching textures when enough clothing above is covering its tracks, alright, but especially when using custom races made with only the body replacer(s) in mind this no longer will be the case.

[xirtamehtsitahw]

Welp...I'd rather just play Cynder as-is, without having to jump through more hoops to get armor to work properly. Besides...when did she ever wear armor in any of the games she played in? LOL

 

One last thing, though: I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Spyro/Cynder mods, but how would I go about changing the color of Cynder's stomach? Right now, it matches the color of the rest of her skin (read: dark purple, almost black). How would I go about making it pink?

[DrakeTheDragon]

Well, to each their own. I, too, prefer my dragons to not wear much when in their full dragon shape.

 

I created the assets, textures and meshes, and gave them to the author on request to put them into the game, that's how familiar I am with them.

 

But in Oblivion there is no technical possibility of body color modification on that scale. Did you try changing the age or complexion sliders in CharGen already? It will change the entire body's coloration, but it's possible to still reach a point you like. Or sometimes even the beard, as strange as it sounds, color slider can bleed down into the body colors.

 

Beyond that though, I'm afraid, you'll have to get into actually editing the body texture then otherwise.

 

 

...But wait a sec... what you're describing does not sound like what you should see:

 

If that above is not what you see, but the texture around the torso/stomach is weirdly distorted, then I think you're missing a prerequisite, that is the female body mod TFF, and your upperbody mesh/NIF is not the proper one.

 

If Team Fantasy Figures is not the female body replacer mod of your choice, I can understand that installing it only for the race is not an option.

 

But you should be able to configure my dragons during first start-up, when the race settings selection popup appears, or when you trigger it another time specifically ingame following my readme about how to do that, you should be able to enable forced unequipping on the upperbody slot as well, which should lead to it equipping a specially adapted TFF upperbody mesh that's coming with my mod, if I'm not mistaken.

 

You won't be able to wear any chest items on her anymore then, unless they've been specifically adapted to be worn on my dragons, but any texture mismatch issues such as what I suspect to be the issue here will be gone in an instant.

[xirtamehtsitahw]

Actually, it seems as if the only real problem is that I don't get the extra accents like the reddish colored belly, and the more metallic colored wing and arm blades. Not sure why it's not letting me do that. How would I go about changing the color of those parts?

 

Also...the Spyro mod works as intended. The Cynder one doesn't, though.

I might have to use the red/gold dragon model, but with the Cynder mod installed.

Edited March 29, 2017 by xirtamehtsitahw

[DrakeTheDragon]

Could you perhaps provide a screenshot of what it is you see?

 

The reddish colored belly and the purple colored skin go hand in hand and can impossibly occur separately... unless you somehow managed to cut my texture file apart without even touching it.

The wings and armblades color hue is subject to the race sliders in CharGen, especially the age and complexion ones. Unless what you see right now isn't even grey colored at all to start with.

 

But most important of all, if the male files are working but the female are not, what female body or body mod are you using right now?

[xirtamehtsitahw]

Actually, I found out that stacking the Spyro and Cynder mods on top of your dragon race mod allowed me to play as a Spyro/Cynder hybrid (as in, a Spyro-looking male dragon with Cynder's horns), yet using the actual Cynder model (female black dragon) caused serious lag issues, even on the lowest graphics settings.

 

And I have a quad-core laptop with a 2.6 GHz standard processing speed, and 3.2 GHz overclock capacity. I have 8 GB of DDR3 RAM, and a 400 GB HDD. However, the main bottleneck is this: Intel HD Graphics 3000 integrated graphics chip.

 

My only option for better performance would be to shell out around 300 dollars total for an external graphics rig (roughly 200 for the graphics card, and the other 100 for an external Thunderbolt rig with cooling fans). To put it into perspective, that's more than what I paid for this laptop. I got it on sale for a mere 200 dollars at a local pawn shop. ;)

[DrakeTheDragon]

Hmm, I got no idea why only the Cynder model would be causing your game to stutter like that. It's nothing performance-heavy included inside. Low-res textures and low-poly meshes. But I think I'll have another look regardless, as soon as I get around to do some hobby stuff again that is. Maybe it's just the game's inbuilt environment reflection maps I might have applied onto the blades and irons and stuff. If you got the wrong graphics hardware, certain game effects can kill your FPS. Spiderwebs' transparency is a well known bogging down issue for example. So you never know.

 

Yes, the work on request was only for Spyro as a replacer for the male red-golds and Cynder as a replacer for the female blacks. I didn't touch the other genders of each at all. The female red-golds are still red-gold and the male blacks still black, it's just the head is shared between both genders and thus they all have Spyro/Cynder heads, quite unfitting their respective body textures then. I could've made proper male Cynders and female Spyros as well, but quite frankly conversion from one body mod's texture layouts to another's to me now constitutes a real nightmare, after I had to do it once for all body mods in existence with the Argonian textures for my AB.