RFC: Script mods that have served their purpose

[Blinxys]

Balx2, Totally hear what you are saying!

 

No set standard! Have decompiled a few scripts, but TBH I am new to the FO universe/franchise, more of a graphics and modelling guy with code tweaking abilities. Not a programmer per se. Surely I don't understand enough yet, for it is vast and I am but one point in space. Was hoping there was a method for redirecting/resourcing scripts/forms,pointers etc. to place them in one esp and work from there, perhaps wishful thinking. Again it's probably beyond me, but was thinking if I start with some small ones i could figure out the lay of the land so to speak.

 

Never really thought about asking for source, but that's a good idea! :thumbsup:

 

Regarding "quests that cleanly exit" It's not entirely the noob modders fault, they are inexperienced and most often grasping at straws from experimenting or bad or incomplete tutorials. (Lo there I am). :rolleyes:

 

I have noticed a dearth in mod/scripting documentation. Where it does exist there are frequently huge gaps of assumption(s). If good authors could be arsed to organize quality tutorials and documentation around advanced beginner and mid-level tinkerers perhaps the results would be of benefit to all.

 

Have been in the CK wiki pages where whole reference pages are not filled in. Do not recall ever having seen anything that says "how to exit a FO4/papyrus quest script cleanly" in the title of anything. But now that you mention it will see what Googles up!

[Balx2]

Yeah a new moder or someone that barely touches papyrus, myself included, may not cleanly close down their script and I wouldn't hold it against them. I am mainly pointing fingers at the developers though. Having looked through most of the script source for the main quest lines to try and either debug an issue or fix a bug, I am amazed at the poor quality across the board.

 

Hmm a good example that I recently looked at was the Cambridge Polymer Lab, the quest never actually exits. Looking at it I saw no reason it should keep running so I linked DN015 & DN015Puzzle and at an appropriate time set a new stage that exits the script. [Quest items can now be dropped into a container]

Another example would be the Mass Fusion building during the main quest line. That script is left running in case someone decides they want to go back down to the basement and swim in radioactive water. [keycard]

[SKKmods]

Don't forget that the base game was made by developers on a commercial budget and timescale. For commercial work good enough has to be good enough.

 

The time and effort we can lavish on non commercial hobby content would be regarded as expensive engineering gold plating. I am on both sides of that commercial:hobby fence. My hobby code is art, but if my commercial dev teams did that I'd be broke.

 

Although, having taken every single base game script and quest apart I am amazed it even works as well as it does :wink: but, it does.

[Zorkaz]

Just keep in mind, if F04 would be perfect it were to come out in 2024.

 

Btw if we are speaking of weird or clunky scripting, did you know it didn't exist until shortly before the release. It was just a fun project by one of the devs and nobody thought it would become a big thing.

 

Also about weird vanilla scripts: I think half of the bobbleheads don't do anything

[Blinxys]

Wait, what?

 

Balx2 "Cambridge Polymer Lab, the quest never actually exits. Looking at it I saw no reason it should keep running so I linked DN015 & DN015Puzzle and at an appropriate time set a new stage that exits the script. [Quest items can now be dropped into a container]."

(BTW: can you share that somehow).

Zorkaz "I think half of the bobbleheads don't do anything"

 

Think perchance I should scrap this thread and start a new one:

"What is still missing from vanilla Fallout 4?"

See if it can't all be cobbled up nicely as community project as an Unofficlal patch for the Unoffical Patch before Fallout 5 comes along.

 

SKK50 I hear what you are saying, and never to directly disagree with you, but "gold PLATING" is often required to give the impression of but WAY less expensive than "SOLID gold". No doubt, your mods are indeed Solid Gold (and becoming more impressive all the time even). :thumbsup:

 

Suspect you have been around long enough to know about the Apple Interface Guidelines, and the "Implied Sense of Stability" edict.

Not solid gold, but convincing enough to put Apple at the top of the heap 30 years later.

 

Though not directly profit driven, I have always sort of believed that after launch a skeleton crew should be left behind to maintain and update titles to get the bugs out, and stay (more) current.

Gearbox did Borderlands GOTY Enhanced (10 years later), RTW2 was completely rewritten/revamped since release.

Should be more like a "living website online" than a "dead archive in a catacomb" to make an analogy.

(At this point, maintenance and CC patches from Mother Bethesda are kind of a joke on us really). :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps it stands, without these "default" lingering open ends, and sequestered content in the release/updated/moddable game many mods (including the game itself) may run somewhat better despite the modder's own faults or lack of quality skills IDK. Sticking to the guidelines I listed for myself my game has been a lot more resilient even with previously cripplng levels of changes.

Anyway, we are back to the initial concept,

Unique NPCs and Monsters is an example of a distillation of enhancement mods that work for the most part as a singular installed entity.

OaR is perhaps another where "reuse of resources" does not appear to conflict even if the original source mod is also installed.

i.e. nightstriker creatures can be installed along side the former and chainsaws for the latter. Albeit that is way too many nightstrikers. :ohmy:
Note:(not currently using OaR only because it *handles* companions differently than vanilla causing *some* issues with AFT and/or XDI, clearly "a too many cooks" problem but the idea is there).

 

Yeah, think we are back to an unofficial unofficial patch community proposal thing. Especially, based on what SKK50 said. Maybe just some gold colored spray paint would at least make it shiny an all, right? :yes:

[SKKmods]

Having spent many years with a global platform business I have strong views on third parties messing with a platform they don't control the specifications for.

 

DONT.

 

Even if the base platform has issues, external tinkering will cause more. The platform is the platform and it should not be messed with.

 

So doubtful that I would be involved in any patching effort. I am content with the constraint of only using non invasive interventions and wrappers. In 50 mods, I have had to modify base game content exactly twice, and consequently despise those mods:

 

Base game Container_Loot* level lists have been modified to add a ChanceNone global variable

 

 

"This mod does change base game objects: dn_CommonGun Instance Naming Rule, ap_Legendary keyword and mod_Legendary* Object Modifications to associate MISC inventory items so they are moveable."

 

 

My focus on compatibility and quality has delivered 4,500 hours of consistent conflict and crash free gaming on a platform that many deal with constant problems. Can we work out why ?

[Blinxys]

SKK50, Truly, and no doubt: you are a surgeon in a slaughterhouse.

Thank you again for thoughts, and even considering your own involvement for a moment.

 

Perhaps the conversation drifted a bit, would really like to understand better "modifying base game content", per the initial scripts listed.

By my reckoning (though I am a mere padawan on a planet of ranking Jedis), most of those look like non-invasive interventions or wrapper(-uppers).

 

Library Database Fix, Task is mentioned but not complete-able.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22025

 

Dr. Feelsgood Fix, you can execute task, get map marker, but nothing comes of it even after you go there.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11500

Those look to meet either of your criteria.

Even

Balx2 "Cambridge Polymer Lab, the quest never actually exits." (just script running on for no reason)? (non-invasive)?

 

Goat Test Restored is standalone/isolated (cutting room floor stuff of no real consequence- run 'n done).

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/44683

 

Curie Romance Fix is for a bug I actaully realized I walked into when it happened.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20367

With patch in place I would not have had to quit the game, find a fix, load it in, start the game again, go back previous save and do over- just to proceed as intended by authors. And am guessing that was not the result of a conflict, since it's a known "verified" problem, just bad code or testers. (just look at all the "verified" bugs on the wiki).

 

As you said yourself (paraphrased) "tracking through the all of its code it's amazing it runs at all..." (but even you know sometimes it really doesn't). :wacko:

Conflict and crash free does not implicate a debugged Base Game experience. :teehee:

By combining the aforementioned mods into a single mod potential conflicts would be eliminated, (though none are evident via FO4edit).

 

Covenant Peaceful Solution might be a bit stickier regarding how it was accomplished but that quest "normally bugs" at the end, (as if that's normal).

And Shortcut to Curie is probably a direct violation, either of those you could execute/incorporate most proficiently (thinking Fast Start Companions/BoS/Whatever).

BTW, was wondering if you get Curie Straight out of vault and can't complete Hole in the Wall, can you still access Secret Vault 81?

 

Have to agree with Zorkaz about 2024 deadline, and your cost analysis, that is why Beth crowd-sourced it with CK in the end, probably hoping for happy accidents themselves (Fading Signal/Eiianora come to mind). It feels

 

TL;DR

Again, SKK50 I commend you on your critical capabilities, exacting requirements and discernment so; as in "RFC" how do you see these directly offending your sensibilities specifically?

 

Otherwise, thanks again for your insights!

[SKKmods]

I tend to accept platform defects as part of the platform if they can't be non invasively "wrapped". So Curie keeps returning to Vault 81 due to a bad condition on an AI package that can only be fixed by hacking that package ... so what, that can be part of the charm. Move on, there is still plenty for me to do.

 

I know that brokenness or unpredictability is difficult for people who suffer completionist or tidy settlement/pipboy/whatever OCD but they can chose the invasive (yay ! let's break precombines) type solutions and take responsibility for consequential damages.

 

Whilst I would not personally use invasive solutions, I am not against them. It's a free world of consumer choice .... if the consumer understands what it is they are doing and takes responsibility for their actions. Thing is, many don't and can't. So I try to avoid being part of the problem handing out knives to infants and grenades to kids.

 

Although I do offer solutions that can break the game if used unwisely, they are clearly documented as such and have in game warnings; Unlock All Companions, Open Anything, Unlimited Combat Followers are recent examples. But, every user who posts that they stabbed themselves in the eye with one of my solutions drains a tiny bit of my emotional energy.

 

 

ps grenades to infants and knives to kids ... yes, that would work.

[Zorkaz]

I have to say it's nice to read such a down-to-earth discussion of things.

Sometimes it seems people think Todd Howard made these games all alone.

[SKKmods]

Forgot to say, since I don't rant on the mod author forum any more: mod packs.

 

They really don't help educate users on what they are actually installing or incentivize them to find out.

 

Already had a bunch of them totally clueless as to what the mods they installed actually do.

 

Incomprehension, self stabbing and CTDs intensify.