More Notes on Custom Soldier Skill/Perk Trees

[graaa]

Hello all I'm back from a short XCOM break (has is become more mod-friendly yet?)

I've done some tests mixing and matching the soldier skill trees and I'd like to post some notes for you all here.

 

I've also made custom mods that you can install with ToolBoks to edit the skill trees easily on your own

 

 

My goals
1) See what cross-class skills provide synergies when combined in the same class and what skills don't work as intended when combined and document them.
2) Create a Scout build within an existing class that works well as a spotter for the squad Sniper and create other Class to Class synergies.
3) Rebuild the class trees by replacing less useful skills with more powerful/useful skills (list of skills I'm not using below) and also rebalancing the trees to make easy choices (HEAT ammo OR Rapid Reaction, I mean really?) less obvious.

What Works (or, what I didn't think was obvious)
-Holotargeting works for all classes
-In the Zone works for all classes
-In the Zone works with Run & Gun after dash
-Rapid Fire refreshes after each kill with In The Zone (insanely overpowered)
-Rapid Fire works with Bulletswarm if fired LAST (means 3 shots in a round!)
-Run & Gun works with the Sniper Rifle ONLY with snapshot active

-Disabling Shot and Headshot work with the Assault Rifle ONLY if you edit the .ini. You need to add ewp_sniper as a second property. They don't work with run&gun ability after dash. Disabling shot's animation is broken for assault rifle. (Thanks to Yzaxtol for this testing)

-Doubletap is hardcoded to the Sniper Class, so adding ewp_sniper and ewp_anyclass to the assault rifle will allow your SNIPER to doubletap with assault rifle, but no other class can do it.

What Doesn’t
-Bulletswarm only works for heavies
-Double Tap only works with the SNIPER class.
-Smoke and Mirrors cannot be selected multiple times to give soldier more than 2 smokes. (2 smokes max!)
-Combat drugs and dense smoke don’t stack if a soldier has both
-Rifle Suppression does not work with shotguns
-Holotargeting does not apply when using Flush (so no +30 to aim when flushing a critter from full cover =()
-Holotargeting does not apply when using rapid fire
-Covering Fire combined with Sentinel and/or Rapid Reaction only fires ONCE at an attacking enemy, even if you hit that enemy.
-Sentinel and Rapid Reaction combined do not allow 4 overwatch shots in the same turn. You either get 2 shots at a single target with Rapid Reaction, or 1 shot at 2 different targets with Sentinel. Extensive testing has confirmed this. Furthermore, after you get your two reaction shots, you can’t use covering fire in the same turn. Seems like 2 reaction shots max are hardwired into the game.
-Tactical Sense and Aggression do NOT provide bonuses from squadsighted enemies (sorry snipers).

EDIT 2/2/13
After testing my previous trees out, I've decided to do away with the unflexable skill trees I originally had and open the tree up a bit for more combinations. I'm taking some tips from the original skills trees and looking at the type of choices the developers originally had you make.

This is what I'm currently testing. Updated 2.17

 

SNIPER
Squadsight 03
Gunslinger 5f OR Snapshot 10

Opportunist 0A OR Damn Good Ground 0F

HEAT ammo 5b or Headshot 02

In the Zone 0E OR Disabling Shot 09

Doubletap 0D

Low Profile 05 OR Bring em On 27

 

HEAVY
Fire Rocket 12

Holotargeting 13 OR Flush 25

Bulletstorm 1A OR Shredder Rocket 16

Suppression 15 OR Rocketeer 5D
HEAT ammo 5b or Danger Zone 19

Will to Survive 11
Resilience 2B OR Mayhem 5E

 

ASSAULT
Lightning Reflexes 23

Low Profile 05 OR Close Combat Specialist 28

Grenadier 18 OR Close and Personal 22

Aggression 20 OR Sprint 1F

Rapid Fire 24 OR In the Zone 0E

Run & Gun 06

Tactical Sense 21 or Killer Instinct 29

 

SUPPORT
Smoke Grenade 2C
Sentinel 36 OR Rifle Suppression 31
Field Medic 30 OR Smoke and Mirrors 5C

Holotargetting 13 OR Covering Fire 2F

Revive 38 OR Battlescanner 08

Opportunist 0A

Savior 37 OR Dense Smoke 34

Skills I'm not using:
Executioner
Deep Pockets
Rapid Reaction

Edited February 26, 2013 by graaa

[dubiousintent]

... (has is become more mod-friendly yet?)

From a simple lurker viewpoint: No. But there has been some progress on figuring more things out. Just look for the most recently active threads here.

 

These are some interesting findings, and potentially an area many people would like to experiment in. Do you have any plans to create a mod package to allow people to try their own combinations?

 

-Dubious-

[johnnylump]

For what it's worth, I like gunslinger on the assault; it gives the shotgunner something to do when fighting at range.

[graaa]

Do you have any plans to create a mod package to allow people to try their own combinations?

 

No - my skills at programming at EXTREMELY limited to non-existant. I've been using this handy website here created by rf900

http://personales.ya.com/anyone/xcom/perks.htm

 

This post is actually a continuation of this posting http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/815794-custom-soldier-ability-trees/

and I should have posted it there but I haven't been back here for several months and I've got pretty cruddy forum etiquette ;)

 

 

For what it's worth, I like gunslinger on the assault; it gives the shotgunner something to do when fighting at range.

 

I've learned that what people like in their skill trees is all pretty much up to how they like to play. I took some time to think what awesome super-powered combos and synergies could I find and pretty much my pride and joy is putting In the Zone with a Run&Gun shotgun assault and watching him kill everything with Rapid Shot until he ran out of ammo and flanked enemies (before being promptly killed by that last unflanked muton). If you like gunslinger somewhere in your tree go for it! The hardest part is finding where to fit something in and what to sacrifice and how early to give a skill to somebody. I just edited the assault tree because I felt lightning reflexes needed to come sooner (like in the 1st month) so i put it at Corporal. I also found that that having R&G, close and personal, and Killer Instict was way too overpowered for the first 4 ranks (because you're really only facing floaters and regular mutons by the time you get that far and it was literally overkill each time because don't forget you got rapid fire...) so I ended up shifting it around.

 

Still testing, but its loads of fun makin changes and playing them. I hope someone comes up with a hex-free way of doing this because I'm starting to see hexes every time I blink.

[pdoan8]

My take on a few of the skills:

- Deep Pockets: I see this as an unique skill for support, especially with default number of small item. An extra slot to carry the medikit (along with the usual combat gear). I would prefer it as the first skill.

- Revive: another useful skill for support. 33% of 10 HP + 6 HP from the improved medikit = good as new (almost).

- Gunslinger: I still want it for sniper unless the move-and-fire restriction has been removed.

- Combat Drugs: still useful against psi enemy.

- Extra Conditioning: not much of an useful skill, but a few extra HPs is better than none.

 

Skills that I rarely use:

- Damn Good Ground: it's rare to have higher ground with good cover, wide battle field view and need squad sight for range. Too much work to draw enemy to the higher ground.

- Sprint: I like it more for assault (with shorter range, high damage weapons).

 

Skills that I have never used:

- Executioner: for most enemy, a plasma pistol with all foundry upgrades will do just fine. When there is no aim penalty (due to movement or difficulty level), +10 aim is not that much. It would be much better if it were +10 critical.

 

In the Zone, Sprint, Close Combat Specialist, Run and Gun, Killer Instinct, Lightning Reflex: fast and deadly as assault troops should be (a bit over power with in the zone). I like it.

 

Can it be modded to select from more than 2 skills? That would be amazing.

[graaa]

My take on a few of the skills:

- Deep Pockets: I see this as an unique skill for support, especially with default number of small item. An extra slot to carry the medikit (along with the usual combat gear). I would prefer it as the first skill.

- Revive: another useful skill for support. 33% of 10 HP + 6 HP from the improved medikit = good as new (almost).

- Gunslinger: I still want it for sniper unless the move-and-fire restriction has been removed.

- Combat Drugs: still useful against psi enemy.

- Extra Conditioning: not much of an useful skill, but a few extra HPs is better than none.

 

-Deep Pockets: Agreed that its very useful. The trouble is fitting it in! I've been more than happy to use mods that incorporate a 2nd carry slot with the right armors.

-Revive: This is another skill I agree is useful, but where does it fit with the number of more useful and more commonly used skills that can replace it? Given, now that I'm testing this with impossible and more of my soldiers are being critcally wounded, I may have to reconsider... lol.

-Gunslinger: Indeed I had a very hard time giving this one up and I'm still trying to find a way to fit it in.

-Combat Drugs: Agreed but those situations are far rarer than facing non-psi enemies. When choosing between one or the other I always choose dense smoke, and that's what I did with my Support class - if you choose the smoke tree then there isn't much reason to deviate from that tree. I tried testing to see if combat drugs stacked with dense smoke, and unfortunately it doesn't.

- Extra Conditioning: Replaceable with other defensive and health states, like Will to Survive, Resiliance, and Tactical Sense which are far better espcially pre-endgame armor.

 

Skills that I rarely use:

- Damn Good Ground: it's rare to have higher ground with good cover, wide battle field view and need squad sight for range. Too much work to draw enemy to the higher ground.

- Sprint: I like it more for assault (with shorter range, high damage weapons).

 

Agreed on both, sprint is meant for assault IMO and that's where I put it. Damn Good Ground was a skill I snuck in there for a choice against Low Profile, but maybe gunslinge would be good to replace that?

 

Skills that I have never used:

- Executioner: for most enemy, a plasma pistol with all foundry upgrades will do just fine. When there is no aim penalty (due to movement or difficulty level), +10 aim is not that much. It would be much better if it were +10 critical.

 

I can't wait for the day when we can edit the skills themselves a bit... I would allow bulletstorm to be used with the Support class. Imagine how much more lethal that dude will become.

 

In the Zone, Sprint, Close Combat Specialist, Run and Gun, Killer Instinct, Lightning Reflex: fast and deadly as assault troops should be (a bit over power with in the zone). I like it.

 

Edit: I've decided after testing some more it is a bit overpowered. I'm going to make it either Rapid Fire OR ITZ now.

 

 

 

Can it be modded to select from more than 2 skills? That would be amazing.

Hahaha, one day maybe.

Edited February 3, 2013 by graaa

[graaa]

Completed a second round of testing and I have filled out the list of what cross-class skills work together and which don't some more.

 

Also I've redone the skill trees I'm using for full game testing - the other ones I had were too rigid and I've included some skills back in there that I've left out. I'll let you know it works out.

 

I plan on compiling a list of the changes that other mods make to the skill trees as well as the hex codes that go along with them so that casual modders can have an easier time messing with them for their own personal games. This will make it easier for people to find the right hexes to change if they are using one of these mods.

Edited February 3, 2013 by graaa

[dubiousintent]

I plan on compiling a list of the changes that other mods make to the skill trees as well as the hex codes that go along with them so that casual modders can have an easier time messing with them for their own personal games. This will make it easier for people to find the right hexes to change if they are using one of these mods.

 

That would be very useful. Thanks for making the effort.

 

Edit: Have you ever determined if 'Killer Instinct' will stack with 'Bring Em On'?

 

-Dubious-

Edited February 4, 2013 by dubiousintent

[graaa]

Edit: Have you ever determined if 'Killer Instinct' will stack with 'Bring Em On'?

 

I would assume it does. It's already part of the vanilla assault tree.

[graaa]

<p><p>Here's a list of the changes that Warspace Extension and Long War mod made to their skill trees and the corresponding hexes for quick searching and changing in the hex editor. This is for your own personal game if you want to play these mods AND incorporate your own changes to the skill trees.<br /><br />
<br /><br />
EDIT:</p>
<p>I have verified the accuracy of these hexes in the UPK of each mod listed here. In the process of editing the post though, this thing became a mess and I don't know what happened. Probably a nexus issue.</p>

WARSPACE EXTENSION SKILL TREE LIST 1.71<br /><br />

SNIPER
Squadsight* 04 2C 03 06 4A<br /><br />
Snapshot 04 2C 10 06 4A Gunslinger* 04 2C 5F 06 4C<br /><br />
Headshot* 04 2C 02 06 4A Damn Good Ground 04 2C 0F 06 86<br /><br />
Disabling Shot 04 2C 09 06 4A Covering Fire* 04 2C 2F 06 C0<br /><br />
Executioner 04 2C 0B 06 4A Opportunist 04 2C 0A 06 FA<br /><br />
Low Profile 04 2C 05 06 4A<br /><br />
In the Zone 04 2C 0E 04 25 Doubletap 04 2C 0D 06 4A

HEAVY
Fire Rocket 04 2C 12 06 4A<br /><br />
Bulletswarm 04 2C 1A 06 4A Flush* 04 2C 25 06 4C<br /><br />
Shredder Rocket 04 2C 16 06 4A Suppression 04 2C 15 06 86<br /><br />
Heat Ammo 04 2C 5B 06 4A Rapid Reaction 04 2C 17 06 C0<br /><br />
Will to Survive* 04 2C 11 06 4A Danger Zone 04 2C 19 06 FA<br /><br />
Extra Conditioning* 04 2C 1B 06 4A<br /><br />
Rocketeer 04 2C 5D 04 25 Mayhem 04 2C 5E 06 4A

ASSAULT
Run &amp; Gun 04 2C 06 06 4A<br /><br />
Tactical Sense 04 2C 21 06 4A Aggression 04 2C 20 06 4C<br /><br />
Lightning Reflex 04 2C 23 06 4A Close and Personal 04 2C 22 06 86<br /><br />
Sprinter* 04 2C 1F 06 4A Rapid Fire 04 2C 24 06 C0<br /><br />
Grenedier* 04 2C 18 06 4A Bring em On 04 2C 27 06 FA<br /><br />
Close Combat Specialist* 04 2C 28 06 4A<br /><br />
Resilience 04 2C 2B 04 25 Killer Instinct 04 2C 29 06 4a

SUPPORT
Smoke Grenade 04 2C 2C 06 4A<br /><br />
Smoke and Mirrors* 04 2C 5C 06 4A Battlescanner* 04 2C 08 06 4C<br /><br />
Field Medic 04 2C 30 06 4A Rifle Suppression* 04 2C 31 06 86<br /><br />
Revive 04 2C 38 06 4A Holotargetting* 04 2C 13 06 C0<br /><br />
Dense Smoke 04 2C 34 06 4A Combat Drugs 04 2C 33 06 FA<br /><br />
Deep Pockets 04 2C 35 06 4A<br /><br />
Savior 04 2C 37 04 25 Sentinel 04 2C 36 06 4a<br /><br />
<br /><br />
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />
LONG WAR MOD SKILL TREE LIST 1.04

SNIPER
Squadsight* 04 2C 03 06 4A<br /><br />
Holotargetting* 04 2C 13 06 4A Headshot* 04 2C 02 06 4C<br /><br />
Snap shot * 04 2C 10 06 4A Damn Good Ground 04 2C 0F 06 86<br /><br />
Disabling Shot* 04 2C 09 06 4A or Flush* 04 2C 25 06 C0<br /><br />
Executioner 04 2C 0B 06 4A Opportunist 04 2C 0A 06 FA<br /><br />
Low Profile 04 2C 05 06 4A<br /><br />
In The Zone 04 2C 0E 04 25 DoubleTap 04 2C 0D 06 4A

HEAVY
Fire Rocket 04 2C 12 06 4A<br /><br />
Suppression* 04 2C 15 06 4A OR Covering Fire* 04 2C 2F 06 4C<br /><br />
Bullet Swarm* 04 2C 1A 06 4A OR Shredder Rocket 04 2C 16 06 86<br /><br />
HEAT Ammo 04 2C 5B 06 4A OR Rapid Reaction 04 2C 17 06 C0<br /><br />
Grenadier 04 2C 18 06 4A OR Danger Zone 04 2C 19 06 FA<br /><br />
Will to Survive 04 2C 11 06 4A<br /><br />
Rocketeer 04 2C 5D 04 25 OR Mayhem 04 2C 5E 06 4A

ASSAULT
Run &amp; Gun 04 2C 06 06 4A<br /><br />
Gunslinger* 04 2C 5F 06 4A Bring &lsquo;Em On* 04 2C 27 06 4C<br /><br />
Tactical Sense* 04 2C 21 06 4A Aggression* 04 2C 20 06 86<br /><br />
Lightning Reflexes* 04 2C 23 06 4A Rapid Fire* 04 2C 24 06 C0<br /><br />
Close And Personal* 04 2C 22 06 4A Close Combat Specialist* 04 2C 28 06 FA<br /><br />
Extra Conditioning 04 2C 1B 06 4A<br /><br />
Resilience 04 2C 2B 04 4A Killer Instinct 04 2C 29 06 25

SUPPORT
Smoke Grenade 04 2C 2C 06 4A<br /><br />
Sprinter* 04 2C 1F 06 4A Field Medic* 04 2C 30 06 4C<br /><br />
Battlescanner* 04 2C 08 06 4A Smoke and Mirrors* 04 2C 5C 06 86<br /><br />
Revive 04 2C 38 06 4A Rifle Suppression 04 2C 31 06 C0<br /><br />
Dense Smoke 04 2C 34 06 4A Combat Drugs 04 2C 33 06 FA<br /><br />
Low Profile* 04 2C 05 06 4A<br /><br />
Savior 04 2C 37 04 4A Sentinel 04 2C 36 06 25</p></p>

Edited February 17, 2013 by graaa