Please help me decide what physics to take!

[FriendlyNPC]

Hey guys! I am modding my game the last days and I already have most of the important stuff and now I want some eyecandy. Can you help me to decide what physics engine I need to take?

The most important thing for me is performance! I played the game a while back and I had a skirt that would drop my fps by 20 frames if I would wear it. BTW the physics of clothing is for me more important then jiggle of butt and breast (I dont know if thats makes any difference in how the mods peform).

I found following mods:

- CBBE 3BBB

- CBBE SMP (3BBB)

- HDT-SMP (Skinned Mesh Physics)

- CBPC - Physics with Collisions for SSE and VR

- CBP Physics

 

when I remember correct then HDT-SMP is the engine that makes clothing animations like skirts or cloaks, please correct me if I am wrong!

SO the rest is for boobs and butts? What should I pick? I read somehwere that CBBE 3BBB is better then CBBE SMP (3BBB) but is this still the case? What about the CBP stuff? If those two less peformance heavy then I would pick those ofc.

Please share your wisdome with me!

THX everyone who answers!

[anjenthedog]

In my opinion:

 

1) HDT-SMP

2) CBPC

3) (not mentioned) Sinful CBP, because it provides an MCM (menu) for in-game tailoring of CBPC physics.

4) CBBE-3BBB with all the bells and whistles selected in its installation helper (ie, full SMP with CBPC it CBBE-3BBB's "fomod")

 

And the reason I ordered these as I did is because 1 and 2 are dependencies for 4, and dependencies should be installed prior to any mod which lists a given mod or mods as dependencies.

 

The reason I suggest both SMP and CBPC support for the body is that you can drop back to CBPC mode if SMP's processor loading is too taxing for a given environment. For instance, I switch my female player to CBPC when I'm roaming in the area between Whiterun and Rorikstead, due to the heavy loading that occurs in that region. (Around than 90% of my inexplicable CTDs happen in this area...and that incidence has been reduced considerably by operating in CBPC mode there)

 

Note: I'd advise ignoring any subsequent "leet" advise that CBPC is unnecessary. I'm not going to provide a treatise on why I'm saying this. You'll have to take my word for it.

 

Why SMP? When it is working and hasn't gone unstable, it provides more natural body response to changing acceleration, and if you have a modern, recent computer, SMP is perfectly suitable as long as you play by the rules.

 

CBBE-3BBB provides an MCM installed along with the other options. The associated MCM has an entry for setting a hotkey to switch between SMP and CBPC mode

 

IF SMP goes unstable on the player body, (for the virtual human body, the gross symptom is breasts dancing about on their own or acting as if they are being tugged upwards. Early symptoms are vibrating breasts). Anyway, when encountered, the player can then simply click that hotkey twice, and SMP will be reset. Two seconds and you're back to normal.

 

And for followers that have these capabilities, hotkey assignments are also provided for switching them between CBPC and SMP mode, so they can be reset by clicking one of those twice... FYI

 

Why does SMP go unstable? Because of what I suspect is an "open-loop control" issue in its coding. If you're an engineer, look up open loop instability if you're not familiar and care that much to pursue it. If not, well, ymmv. I happen to be one, and one who happened to work intimately with control systems for a decade and recognize certain characteristics that resemble open loop instability.

 

Why use it (SMP) anyway? Because under normal circumstance, these instabilities are rare, and SMP provides a more natural response.

 

TMI? sorry

 

PS> Not covered in your query, but when wearing a clothing item that has HDT response, a quick reset is to un-equip the item and then re-equip. FWIW, FYI

 

PPS> this all kinda presumes you're using a female player OR you have SMP/CBPC capable followers or NPCs. My male is a stock character, only tweaked in racemenu to adjust his otherwise crude, somewhat hideous stock face. He doesn't use CBPC or SMP in either his body definition OR his armor, which is simply stock armor that is boosted via Smithing, Enchanting, and a bit of Lazy Tools cheating. Although his followers do (Both CBBE-3BBB and BHUNP followers btw.) Females are more demanding. At least females using physics.

 

In answer to your other questions, in case I didn't say...or my lengthy blather didn't imply...

1. CBBE-3BBB supercedes CBBE-SMP. That is, it's more advanced, and afaik, it is considered the defacto standard as of today's date. And more supported. And well, just better.
2. Yes, HDT-SMP covers both SMP AND HDT (like HDT wigs, etc)
3. Yeah, boobs, butt, thighs, etc. If you enjoy or admire the female body and find yourself creating a female player or have any of the many "lovely" female followers, you will be robbing yourself of the admirable qualities that SMP/CBPC operation presents.
4. On that score, I'd recommend installing FNIS sexy move as well. (of course after all these basics are covered).

Second TMI apology for good measure.

 

Don't let the avatar fool you. I'm a guy in reallife

 

​-- multiple edits for correcting typos and to provide additional content

[FriendlyNPC]

In my opinion:

 

1) HDT-SMP

2) CBPC

3) (not mentioned) Sinful CBP (becasue it provides MCM for in-game tailoring of CBPC physics)

4) CBBE-3BBB with all the bells and whistles selected in its installation helper (ie, full SMP with CBPC it CBBE-3BBB's "fomod")

 

And the reason I ordered these as I did is because 1 and 2 are dependencies for 4, and dependencies should be installed prior to any mod which lists a given mod or mods as dependencies.

Thank you very much for your answer!

So if I read it correctly you said in 4 CBBE-3BBB is better then CBBE SMP (3BBB)? Do I need any of those two at all If I pick just CBPC? As far as I know CBPC is fake physics? So can I still use a mod that needs 3BBB just with CBPC alone? Or no? (Sorry if I ask to specific things, if you dont know it please just ignore that question :D )

EDIT: Most important question: Peformance! What mod should I avoid.

Edited September 15, 2020 by FriendlyNPC

[FriendlyNPC]

In my opinion:

 

1) HDT-SMP

2) CBPC

3) (not mentioned) Sinful CBP (because it provides MCM for in-game tailoring of CBPC physics)

4) CBBE-3BBB with all the bells and whistles selected in its installation helper (ie, full SMP with CBPC it CBBE-3BBB's "fomod")

 

And the reason I ordered these as I did is because 1 and 2 are dependencies for 4, and dependencies should be installed prior to any mod which lists a given mod or mods as dependencies.

 

The reason I suggest both SMP and CBPC support for the body is that you can drop back to CBPC mode if SMP's processor loading is too taxing for a given environment. For instance, I switch my female player to CBPC when I'm roaming in the area between Whiterun and Rorikstead, due to the heavy loading that occurs in that region. (Around than 90% of my inexplicable CTDs happen in this area...and that incidence has been reduced considerably by operating in CBPC mode there)

 

Why SMP? When it is working and hasn't gone unstable, it provides more natural body response to changing acceleration, and if you have a modern, recent computer, SMP is perfectly suitable as long as you play by the rules.

 

CBBE-3BBB provides an MCM installed along with the other options. The associated MCM has an entry for setting a hotkey to switch between SMP and CBPC mode

 

IF SMP goes unstable on the player body, (for the virtual human body, the gross symptom is breasts dancing about on their own or acting as if they are being tugged upwards. Early symptoms are vibrating breasts). Anyway, when encountered, the player can then simply click that hotkey twice, and SMP will be reset. Two seconds and you're back to normal.

 

Why does SMP go unstable? Because of what I suspect is an "open-loop control" issue in it's coding. If you're an engineer, look up open loop instability. If not, well, ymmv. I happen to be one, and one who happened to work intimately with control systems for a decade and recognize certain characteristics that resemble open loop instability.

 

Why use it anyway? Because under normal circumstance, these instabilities are rare, and SMP provides a more natural response.

 

TMI? sorry

 

PS> Not covered in your query, but when wearing a clothing item that has HDT response, a quick reset is to un-equip the item and then re-equip. FWIW, FYI

 

PPS> this all kinda presumes you're using a female player. My male is a stock character, only tweaked in racemenu to adjust his otherwise crude, somewhat hideous stock face. He doesn't use CBPC or SMP. Although his followers do (Both CBBE-3BBB and BHUNP followers btw.) Females are more demanding. At least females using physics.

 

​Second TMI apology for good measure.

wow thx for your edit! that is a ton of information I did not know at all! you are a true expert!

[anjenthedog]

I just made my final edit. Please re-read in full... Sorry I just kept having to add things so that I was covering the subject as thoroughly as I can as a player, not Skyrim coder.

 

yw btw, I hope it helps you and any other newer-ish player who encounters it (during the interval where it applies anyway).

 

And for the record, I'm not an expert, just interested. But I appreciate the compliment. I'm just another "Joe" here in Skyrim world. :tongue:

[anjenthedog]

One last thing. Please don't flood-install mods, or at least keep installations to a minimum (the basics to make the game work) prior to verifying the game is working. I'd recommend getting out of Helgen before you start loading it down too.

 

by flood install, I mean "I have this long list of mods I was recommended by my gamer bud or I collected from wathcing every MXR Mods YT video, and Ima install all of them before I even crack the game open!!!" <<< that is, in my opinion an almost 100% assured recipe for disaster, disappointment, and frustration.

 

install slowly, methodically, opening the game between installs to verify that things are still working. You can usually find out if a given mod will cause problem within minutes. But adding a dozen mods and then trying to open the game to find it won't open or crashes repeatedly or whatever means figuring out which of the dozen or more mods caused the issue... And that is a royal PITA.

 

PS> (god no! not another freaking PS! Why won't this guy shut up already?....) in regards to FNIS Sexy Moves, should you install it, try setting 5... :)

[Gunslinger808]

Outstanding post atd!

Certainly taught me a few things.

 

I was also guilty of shotgunning mods, then having a heck of a time figuring out which ones caused problems, in one of my early play throughs I ended up starting a new game out of frustration.

[MahBed3208]

What a Rich Info!
I was amid of TBD's CBPC presets and TBD's SMP presets and your efforts helps me a lot. Thank you!

[Crazedklller]

Yeah I just sit down spam download but only enable 2-3 mods at once starting with alternate life and going from there. no harm in downloading a bunch just dont deploy them simultaneously.

[anjenthedog]

same difference I suppose, each to his/her own. I'm not even immune to installing multiple mods, but when I do, I know I'm gambling. (and I try not to put too fat a wad in the ante when I do) I'm just trying to promote "best practice", instead of busily installing a dozen or more mods in quick succession (replete with deployments), where we usually run into problems. Better slow and steady than fast and stumbling. But you know what I was trying to say anyway...or appear to

 

PS> regarding bulk downloading (vs bulk installation, by which I mean downloading, distributing, enabling, FNISing (when called for) LOOTing, and deploying (in whatever order they really go), I also routinely decide to download many mods to my own local file archive (with copies of important description content and a few of the snaps if it has them), and load them into skyrim later via a local install, also which of course is necessary with off-nexus mod site mods. Always bodysides and racemenu presets, and other special files...I have a few that I wouldn't have anymore otherwise, (a rift cherry tree mod I downloaded long ago for instance, that's gone from the net today, which fits well with my early-springtime-ish cilimate theme for skyrim), because they were later removed by their authors for one reason or another.

 

>> so if you have some favored mod(s) that you think will be there forever, don't bet on it. Plan on it being deleted at some point from wherever you got it (and maybe from everywhere), and git 'em while you can. It happens

 

it also helps to have local copies of the original packaged armor/whatever if you want to mod them in any way later, like suppose you wanted to update the ref bodies on a bunch of favored armors or clothing and repackage them (as installable mods) so they don't become orphaned changes, like when you tweak armor that's already installed and update the deployment when your mod manager protests about deployment manifest inconsistencies, or the same for conversions of followers from one physics model to another (ie UNP > BHUNP, etc), or you want to add a zap (adds/removes outfit element) to an armor or clothing mod for future use fitting.