How can anybody srsly play as a Vampire Hunter?

[StayFrosty05]

@ MidbossVyers...:

 

In Game RP bias....My dudes a Werewolf, of course he hates Vamps with a vengeance, he joined the Dawnguard for a reason ' Hunt and Destroy Vamps', that's what he does....Plus Vamps are dead things, their talking Draugr....that's enough to pickle the nose for life... :ohdear: ....dead things don't smell very pleasant.... :P

 

Personal Bias....Vamps are dead things, I have never seen the appeal myself...Plus I'm female, so the pretty Damsel in distress thing pretty much leaves me unaffected.

 

As for my Dude being hunted....take a ticket and line up.... :P ....He has Mod introduced Silver Hands chasing him all over Skyrim and his Wolf Alliance (another Mod) has every Vigilant gunning for him too...his a busy man keeping his pulse active.... :happy:

[LithiumPower]

From an in-lore perspective, where is this vampire vs werewolf vendetta stemming from? Is there a basis for it in TES lore?

 

TES vampires are not always villainous. I for one remember, Janus Hassildor defending his people personally from hordes of Daedra while other counts hid in their castles and the tragic tale of Lord Lovidicus' doomed love. There's Sybille Stentor, a well respected court mage steadfast in her loyalty to her court. There's Hert and Hern eking out an honest life together. There's Valerica who gives up everything to stop her own husband's evil plan of world domination. None of these people are perfect, but they are not evil by any stretch.

 

Also, I find it disturbing that you consider offensive body odour grounds for cold blooded murder when everyone in Skyrim is literally caked in dirt. Vampires are not decomposing, why would they stink? If anything they'd have less B.O. because they don't perspire!

 

Finally, as a fellow female I personally find your resistance to a pretty face fascinating! I fell immediately for the damsel in distress and now we're married and have three children. :blush:

Edited March 28, 2013 by Lithium Flower

[MidbossVyers]

Indeed, before the onset of shampoo, everyone stunk.

[StayFrosty05]

@ LithiumFlower...

 

First point, do remain aware these are fictional beings, as such it is not an affront to dislike them....I love later Hammer flavored movies, Vamps, Werewolves, Mummies, etc...seen them all, bought most of them, love them....And so yes, I have preconceived notions in regards to Vamps...TES Lore or not....Bram Stoker, Noferatu, etc...

 

As for Janus Hassildor, I quite liked him actually, though if I remember rightly didn't he also have some Vamp guest in his Dungeon feeding on the Prisoners?...And I noticed in another thread someone mentioning Hert and Hern preying on Traveler's. Valerica did it to save the Vamps from extermination....They are not any more evil than many of the other characters in TES Games, you are right there....But as for my own perception of Vamps no matter the Lore, they are walking dead things and I guess what it boils down to is I find that concept quite revolting personally....as such I would also imagine that 'yes' they do smell of long dead rotten flesh...it's not a smell one forgets easily and is certainly recognized immediately if smelt again many years later.

 

Then again as I mentioned above, I did quite like Janus despite his Vampire-ism and there are a few renditions of Dracula I am quite fond of also....I don't particularly find Serana an enticing character at all, in fact I find her rather irritating, but if we all liked the same things the world would be a boring place....simply, you like her, I don't.....when I have to have her with me, it is one of the very rare moments in game in which I will Fast Travel.

 

As for 'resistance to pretty faces'...in RL it's the person not the face they carry that matters....As for Game characters, developed characters the RL rule applies....as for undeveloped characters...meh...I find male more attractive, the females 'yep' I register a pretty face, but that's about it. In regards to Damsels in Distress, I really have no time for or any interest in that old trobe.

 

@ MidbossVyers....You could not be more incorrect in your assumption....Just quick off the top of the head examples of the tip of a large Iceberg, google SoapWort and Yukka Root (Plants)....and google the history behind Olive Oil and Dust Baths.

[mikeprok17]

This is a minor drift but it addresses why many people do not like vampires. If you are familiar with the game setting for Bloodshadows, the world of Marl has many types of non-humans that would qualify as monsters living along side humans in its cities. The humans seem to tolerate shapeshifters, zombies, and even some demons, but vampires are almost always hated even if they behave. Humans do not like being lower on the food chain and cannot stand that there are monsters that look exactly like they do, who can snack on them. Their general consensus is that the other monsters all look like monsters when they are trying to get you but the damn sneaky vampires do not have to show their true natures before they sink in their fangs.

 

The old vampires do not like werewolves and visa versa is retained in a lot of fiction and was used as a major setting point White Wolf's Vampire the Masquarade and Werewolf RPGlines, and also in a number of moveis. In Tamriel, the fact that werewolves are linked to Hircine and vampires to Molag Bal may instill some natural rivalry, since the Daedra Princes tend to compete with each other for the souls of mortals. It may also be as simple as human nautre, where you tend to feel that your own culture/group/team/club/etc. is the best because you are in it.

[Amoryenar]

I don't want to sacrifice my being in Castle Volkihar, so I always take the option of being a vampire O_o

[Sianama]

I actually found Seranas "nice-ness" creepy. I mean... 'devout followers of Molag Bal' ? '...have to prove they are powerful in their own right...'? She is a pureblood vampire, she has to be powerful and devout to Molag Bal (or at least used to be), which probably means, she did a lot of sacrificing and what not by herself, not only her father did. Plus she has to be powerful enough to endure the ritual itself. And she has daddy issues? oO She is being 'soft spoken' and nice? She has been without blood/food for... how long?... and she does not just jump out sucking everything dry... or fall out of her tomb as an ash pile?

I found that very interesting and creepy. I had hoped that there would be more to it than just a friends with strange people-plot.

 

But it actually gave me a good laugh later when Delphine told me, if I don't trust her it was stupid to come to her. I thought '..yea... you mean like ...walking right into Castle Volkihar?' ^^

 

But I agree, some different choice would have been nice. I don't like Serana at all and I even usually take followers of my own choice, if I can have them. I don't go to Forebear's Holdout with her and I don't take her to Alftand. If she asks me if I trust her, when she has to partially steal my soul (before entering the Soul Cairn) I tell her to just get on with it. I usually take the pragmatic approach that for some reason, that only the divines know, I seem to need her help (although i constantly have to fight my way through dozens of enemies she draws upon herself by just charging into battle and then falling over, leaving me to deal with them... >.<) and so I put up with her as long as I need her.

[ClockworkBard]

And then you get double-wammied if you're a vampire who sides with the Dawnguard to hunt other vampires.

 

My vampress anti-hero was able to buy that not all vampires are pure evil. That would be the pot calling the kettle black, otherwise. I let her buy into the plan to take Serana home, rather than recognize it for the absolutely horrible idea that it was. I RP'd it as a moment of weakness. She kept her few friends distant. They could never completely understand or trust her. And she burned her bridges with fellow vampires long ago. Yet, here was this vampire who knew her to be both a vampire hunter and vampire, and seemed fine with that. Not just fine, but friendly. It was silly, but I felt I could make the "mandatory BFF" angle work.

 

This doesn't really stick later. The Dawnguard are content to be Serana's BFF as well, even if they grumble a lot about it. But my character? "Get cured, monster!" I can't really work the "two BFF vampires in a vampire hating world" when one of us is hated to the point of no longer being accepted and the other is a mild inconvenience. I vouched for her. How can you continue to trust her if you don't trust me?

 

I think the "Serana has mad seduction magic" angle is looking highly viable.

 

The only time I've felt more frustrated with a Skyrim plot was when I had to leave the civil war in limbo, because the game wouldn't let me change sides when Whiterun did. Asking me to attack the home and people I'd spent several days becoming trusted with and attached to, and not offering an alternative, was kind of a dick move. Forcing me to trust a vampire, then immediately asking me, and not her, to give up my character-defining vampirism ranks kind of close.

Edited April 19, 2013 by ClockworkBard

[sisterof]

I don't want to sacrifice my being in Castle Volkihar, so I always take the option of being a vampire :blink:

Disney Villain Dude won't kill you if you refuse becoming a vampire - he'll show you the way out. Politely.

 

 

I actually found Seranas "nice-ness" creepy. I mean... 'devout followers of Molag Bal' ? '...have to prove they are powerful in their own right...'? She is a pureblood vampire, she has to be powerful and devout to Molag Bal (or at least used to be), which probably means, she did a lot of sacrificing and what not by herself, not only her father did. Plus she has to be powerful enough to endure the ritual itself. And she has daddy issues? oO She is being 'soft spoken' and nice? She has been without blood/food for... how long?... and she does not just jump out sucking everything dry... or fall out of her tomb as an ash pile?

[...]

But I agree, some different choice would have been nice. I don't like Serana at all and I even usually take followers of my own choice, if I can have them. I don't go to Forebear's Holdout with her and I don't take her to Alftand. If she asks me if I trust her, when she has to partially steal my soul (before entering the Soul Cairn) I tell her to just get on with it. I usually take the pragmatic approach that for some reason, that only the divines know, I seem to need her help (although i constantly have to fight my way through dozens of enemies she draws upon herself by just charging into battle and then falling over, leaving me to deal with them... >.<) and so I put up with her as long as I need her.

The vampires in TES have this interesting relationship with blood, which I find quite original. They don't require it to be powerful - quite the contrary. They require it to fit into mortal society - at the expense of their power. So a vampire that wants to keep meddling with mortals will have to drink blood, look normal and be weaker. And a vampire that wants to be powerful will have to not drink blood, forfeit his ability to walk with his vampirism unnoticed, and become isolated from mortal society. It's an interesting choice to make. That said, Serana should look overwhelmingly creepy after spending so long without blood, and being much more powerful.

 

Her whole characterization is a mess, in my humble opinion. She keeps making conflicting comments about the time when she was imprisoned so it seems the writers didn't even decide on an age for her. She is impressed with Dwarven ruins and that they are no more, but doesn't find it strange that Dark Elves exist, and I think there are some other comments I don't recall now. And for a worshipper of Molag Bal, she's surely a way too nice kid. She was no child when her parents introduced her to the cult, and she undertook the "ritual", she should have some maturity to show for it.

 

And yeah, it felt ridiculous to have no choices regarding her. My Dragonborn knew what an Elder Scroll was, he'd never allow her to walk away with one, and he'd never take her anywhere without having the full story. And needing her to enter the Soul Cairn made me a very disgruntled sisterof, but I can accept that a character that knows nothing of necromancy would need a necromancer's aid in that quest.

 

 

The Dawnguard are content to be Serana's BFF as well, even if they grumble a lot about it. But my character? "Get cured, monster!" I can't really work the "two BFF vampires in a vampire hating world" when one of us is hated to the point of no longer being accepted and the other is a mild inconvenience. I vouched for her. How can you continue to trust her if you don't trust me?

 

I think the "Serana has mad seduction magic" angle is looking highly viable.

 

The only time I've felt more frustrated with a Skyrim plot was when I had to leave the civil war in limbo, because the game wouldn't let me change sides when Whiterun did. Asking me to attack the home and people I'd spent several days becoming trusted with and attached to, and not offering an alternative, was kind of a dick move. Forcing me to trust a vampire, then immediately asking me, and not her, to give up my character-defining vampirism ranks kind of close.

I have never thought of attributing the forced BFF with Serana to some kind of mesmerizing spell. I will keep that in mind. :D The game itself doesn't offer anything more intelligent or interesting then "she's just nice" but hey... imagination! Thank you for the idea, I shall abuse it thoroughly.

 

And yes, it's ridiculous that the Dawnguard is so butthurt with your vampirism and not hers. But I think it has to do with the fact that you become a vampire in the first time you get to Castle Volkihar, which is before the Dawnguard trusts her. Or does that happen if you become a vampire later too?

 

The Civil War is an endless source of frustration to me - and the fact that Bethesda bailed out before offering lore about its conclusion is something that will hurt my soul forever (or until the next game clears that out, and I'll probably be over 30 when that happens, alas!). I only took the Dawnguard quest less harshly because it was insignificant for Skyrim as whole. Harkon never came across as a true threat to me, Elder Scroll or not. He sounded like this delusional narcissistic vampire that fell for a plot some depressed Snow Elf conjured up (a Snow Elf I wish I could save - come on, he was just upset that his god abandoned him).

 

[ClockworkBard]

 

And yes, it's ridiculous that the Dawnguard is so butthurt with your vampirism and not hers. But I think it has to do with the fact that you become a vampire in the first time you get to Castle Volkihar, which is before the Dawnguard trusts her. Or does that happen if you become a vampire later too?

In my case, I was a vampire prior to Dawnguard (and for basically the entire game). The Dawnguard lets you join as a Vampire, though it's hinted that they simply don't know about it, with Serana commenting that they'll find out what you are eventually when you first meet her. They sort of wrote themselves into that corner in that the only way to start the Dawnguard DLC is to join the Dawnguard, if only long enough to make it to Harkon.

 

I forget the order of events, as it's been a while. I forget if Serana settles in before or after the first official "vampire check". But I don't remember the check being handled with any sort of meaningful transition. Just, at some point, everyone in the Dawnguard suddenly becomes aware you're a vampire, and Isran refuses to continue the quest until you cure yourself. I could stomach this with a grain of railroading, if it wasn't handled identically to the Civil War situation. You are suddenly an outcast to the Dawnguard for being a vampire, but your only option to progress the plot is to get cured. You can't convince Isran of your intentions. You can't change sides. There's no third path. You get cured or the quest goes into all-stop limbo, which itself carries no consequences either.

 

I guess it's actually an on-going theme in Skyrim plots. Don't want to sacrifice your eternal soul to a Daedric Prince for the good of a certain guild? Quest limbo. Not keen on being a werewolf? Quest limbo. Personal sacrifice loses a lot of narrative power in those situations. The plot railroad, which I generally have nothing against, suddenly becomes uncomfortably obvious.

 

Basically, I'm fine with Skyrim not offering me choices. Just don't design your stories in such a way that the narrative begs a different path. The Civil War situation again: the game goes out of its way to make you attached to Whiterun. Jarl Balgruuf is intensionally one of the most (if not THE most) likable Jarls in the game. Of course people are going to not want to attack it. Likewise, the very origin of this thread: Isran yells at you for how stupid it is to take Serana to her father with an Elder Scroll. How is it not at all a thought that maybe your players might just come to a similar conclusion and just want to kill the vampire? And my vampire situation: Was it really necessary to check that I was a vampire, after you'd basically let me be one for several missions and the Dawnguard is buddy buddy with another vampire? Why are the checks even there? Most of the quests are on rails, and that's fine, until those moments make you aware of them.

Edited April 21, 2013 by ClockworkBard