buying a UPS

[hoofhearted4]

so i wanna buy a UPS. Winter is almost over here, and thats when we lose power the most, so im a little late, but thats not to say we never lose power.

i want the UPS mostly for two reason. 1) so my PC doesnt just hard shut down. i feel like its not good for the parts, or at least not as good as manually shutting down anyways. but more importantly 2) so i dont lose work or game progress randomly and have time to save and then proceed to manually shut down. i mention this because i dont need a UPS that can power my PC for 30 minutes, just 10 minutes is fine. and also, i hear that a good PSU provides a nice even flow of current (though im not in an area where that would really be an issue) but thats a plus too.

 

things i may hook up to the UPS:

 

PC/Monitor/External HDD

TV

PS3 (again, dont wanna lose progress if im playing a game)

 

 

Relevant Specs of the PC:

3570k (not OCed yet, but will be)

7950 3GB (OCed a little, but not Voltage)

650W PSU

 

 

This is the model i was looking at. From what i know, Watts isnt as important as VA, though the amount of VA is usually based on the amount of Watts. since my PC never actually pulls 650W, i know i dont need anything over that for a UPS. if im playing a game on my PC, my PS3 probably wont be running (though my TV will be) and vice versa, if im playing a game on my PS3, my PC will only be idling. so i wont ever really be using a ton of Power all at once.

 

but yea, any info you guys can spare on the topic of a UPS would be great, im looking to buy whenever i feel confident enough in my purchase.

 

Thanks! :biggrin:

Edited February 14, 2013 by hoofhearted4

[FMod]

Underpowered UPS can be a problem. If underpowered, most can turn the PC off even without a power outage - how does that look. Any UPS with AVR (as well as some without) will suffer from this. If it's overloaded, even a little for a moment, it does more bad than good.

 

VA != watt. VA is VA, the model is specced for 600W. With correction it's good for 400W. 1000VA would be enough for the PC and a small monitor by the skin of its teeth. You generally do need more than your PC will continuously pull; you should cover absolute peak load. A 7970 will peak at 270W, or 300-350 overclocked. CPU will go past 100W - IB gets hot at 4.4+ GHz. There are losses and extra draws due to which such a system will actually peak above 500W. A TV will do 100W+.

 

 

So imagine you have PS3 and TV on, then turn on the PC, whereupon it surges full power to some component. Spike, UPS senses overload, everything off. How often do you get power outages? If not a lot, might not be worth it. It may suck to lose your game progress (not much of a loss really) to a power outage, it definitely sucks to lose it without one.

 

Not familiar with the brand. Is it good or not? No idea. APC costs only a little more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101393

Note how it's heavier, 24 vs 16 lbs. Weight is a good thing for UPS, in the same class at least. I'm not a big fan of APC, but their products work.

 

If you are serious about plugging a lot of things into it, you might want to get a 1500VA model.

If you actually get power outages rather than just going paranoid, it may be better to get a 1000VA for the PC and another low-rated UPS, e.g. 550VA, for the rest. It will cost a little more and def. take more space, but two UPS are considerably better than one: take fewer things out on overload, give you somewhere to plug in a light to fix the other one, you can move the equipment, a lot of reasons.

 

 

A good PSU does provide refined power, but 1) it doesn't matter much, 2) a good PSU is out of your indicated price range. You are currently looking at cheapest units, anything on-line (good) starts about here - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101076 . Can be $500 or so for cheaper makes.

[hoofhearted4]

yea, ive been told about the $500+ units.

as for power outages, i wouldnt say its often, but then again it is. we have a generator, so its often enough we are prepared. it can also be extremely random. weve lost power here without appropriate weather. multiple times lol.

 

I know VA isnt Watts. VA, from what ive been told, is more directly related to the battery. the more VA the longer your PC could run on the battery, give or take. as i said, i guarantee my PC doesnt ever pull 650W. so im sure 600W would be enough. but then again, if i was 100% sure, i wouldnt be here asking :P

the Brand i linked to, AFAIK, is good. ive been recommended them before, by other online forums. but ive also been recommended APC as well.

lastly, from i know, as long as the UPS has power going to it (as in I have Power from the wall) then It doesnt provide power directly, and overloading it isnt an issue. so the whole "losing power even when i havent lost power" thing, i think isnt an issue.

i would like one for my PC. its never a bad thing to have them. maybe ill get a separate one for my PS3, but in all honesty idc about the console haha. many console games now save automatically so progress lost isnt that much. whereas the PC, it isnt just about games. being in college, i often have to write papers or do presentations etc. ive had the power go out while writing a paper before. nothing big, but still sucks...i come from using a laptop and im very used to writing papers on it that when the power went out it was no big deal since the laptop had a battery.

so all that said, would the one i linked to be enough for just the PC and Monitor?

Edited February 14, 2013 by hoofhearted4

[hoofhearted4]

haha well there might be a change of plans. just found the Arc Midi Side Panel Window for sale (finally) and bought it! sooo i might have to hold off on the UPS for now, because with a Side Panel Window comes my desire to finally buy an H100i. been holding off buying one until i got a side panel window. and now that im getting one, i can finally get the water cooler. so yea. i think ill find myself buying the cooler first and the UPS down the road.

 

very excited to finally see the Side Panel for sale somewhere! woo.

[FMod]

I know VA isnt Watts. VA, from what ive been told, is more directly related to the battery. the more VA the longer your PC could run on the battery, give or take. as i said, i guarantee my PC doesnt ever pull 650W. so im sure 600W would be enough.

No. 1200 VA means the UPS can give 120V to a 10A load, peak. But since alternating current is a sine wave rather than square, this only translates to about 750 watts. Has nothing to do with the battery.

 

Have you used a logging watt-meter to verify that your PC never pulls more than 600W or 8.33A from the socket? From its specs, that shouldn't be the case.

 

Due to power factor, less than that, about 500W could be enough to trigger overload protection. So instead of coasting to a halt, your PC turns off just like you had no UPS. Remember that an UPS that is even slightly under peak load spec is as bad or worse than none at all - it won't hold in an outage and sometimes even without.

 

Even though it does draw power from the wall, any UPS with AVR will have overload protection always active. Which will usually trigger at the same current as its rated maximum. I've seen it happen a lot of times, often unexpectedly.

 

For writing papers etc rely on auto-save features first and UPS second, power can be lost even with UPS simply to a snagged cable pulling PSU's power cable out.

[blove]

I have an APC BX1500 under my desk at the moment and am perfectly pleased with it. My experience with the APC brick models though is that the power button invariably sticks.

[FMod]

the Brand i linked to, AFAIK, is good. ive been recommended them before, by other online forums. but ive also been recommended APC as well.

That's not as strong a confidence as you'd need. APC isn't the only household name in the world of UPS for nothing; I've always found fewer problems and better small things with them than with other brands, but they do charge for the name.

 

In the world of on-line UPS, when APC costs $900 and another company's model with similar specs $600, it's a tough call. You aren't talking a piece of junk in either case and cost difference is serious.

 

Here it's what, $135 vs $115, and APC is much heavier? Unless you know that specific UPS model is good, as good as APC or better, it's a no-brainer. Like with PSU, make and model matter for UPS.

[lotherius]

I have a 550VA and it's always provided just enough to keep my system & monitor up for about 5-10 minutes with screen on, maybe 15 minutes when idle.

 

Until today. I had acquired an older 26" LCD which apparently is a power hog, and had both it and my older 22 incher connected. I went from 5-10 minutes time to overload. Power flickered briefly, so fast it didn't reset the clocks on microwave or stove, but my computer got hammered off and on 3 or 4 times, and I was PISSED at the UPS. Turns out, like I said, the monitor is a power hog. My system also has 6 hard drives internal and 2 external, so draw is not minimal.

 

Like the previous poster said, once you hit overload you have absolutely no protection. It simply cut out so quickly that it didn't even register a power event in the log. It was like having no UPS at all. When I did the self-test, it even instantly shut down the computer. I had to disconnect the 26" LCD from the UPS and depend solely on the 22" in case of outage.

 

That said, I'm using a 550VA. It's manageable now that I know NOT to have the 26" plugged in. A 1000VA or higher should handle most loads, if only for a few minutes. You won't be able to keep playing during extended outages, but it will give time to save your game and/or homework and do a proper shutdown if the power doesn't come right back.

Edited February 19, 2013 by lotherius

[FMod]

Power flickered briefly, so fast it didn't reset the clocks on microwave or stove, but my computer got hammered off and on 3 or 4 times, and I was PISSED at the UPS. ...

It was like having no UPS at all.

Worse actually. Without a UPS, it wouldn't have dropped out - capacitors in a PC can hold up to 100J of energy, enough to coast through a quarter of a second. With UPS, protection doesn't reset for more than a second.

 

And with high enough draw it can trigger without a flicker at all. It's not battery converter that caused overload to trigger, but PSU capacitors mentioned above.

 

Normally they don't discharge to zero, but as power is lost, they do. Once power is restored, they charge back up, and do so instantly. This causes the PSU to draw the maximum power its primary stage is designed to draw, which is well above its rated power (can be over 1500VA for a 650W PSU).

 

Of course, overload protection in a 1000VA UPS won't trigger at 1000, but typically at 2000VA, i.e. 16.7A rather than 8.3A. This gives headroom if nothing else is plugged in.

Said 26" monitor might not even draw a lot more power; it could simply have larger capacitors in its power supply, which let it weather power quality issues better, but also increase peak current draw.

[bben46]

When you have a power failure, there is nothing to save on the TV. So no reason to have it on the UPS - as long as you have your primary display on the UPS with the computer. Don't plug in your printer or any auxiliary stuff that isn't needed to save what you are doing on the computer.

 

As soon as you have a power failure, or even a power glitch that doesn't shut everything down, SAVE everything, exit and shut down. If you have a smaller UPS, you can even just kill the power on the computer instead of waiting for it to do a full shut down. You don't know how long the power will be out, and you can use what's left in a UPS to power a few lights (led is best) and charge a cell phone for emergency use.

 

I always unplug all devices from both of my UPS units if there is a power outage. I have run an older low wattage fluorescent lamp for over 6 hours on one of the UPS after shutting down and unplugging my PC that was plugged into it.

 

One of my ups is an old one that I got for free - I had to replace the batteries - cost about $40 US. A new UPS like that one (1200 VA) would cost about $150.