Theories on the "magic threshold" mod limit - And an interesti

[SMB92]

Well they are geting closer, I remember when I was repairing ASUS F3 series notepads and they were like the only lappies to be 64 bit, everyone was like "WTF", couldn't get proper drivers, many bugs, no app support, but still a great idea. Now look most of them are 64 now, you'd be hard pressed buying a decent new machine that's not 64. Oh and as far as the F3 series - they still don't have any drivers or proper support XD.

 

@Stormbringer - no your quite right, not derailing, it is a relevant thing to bring up, just not likely XD And yes I can't believe PS4 is going to have worse specs than my machine but I do understand the design, they do have to consider the heat it would produce and acoustics whilst keeping it all in a affordable/lower cost package/chassis.

[Ablaze666]

FINALLY! It took me almost a week to come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter which mod I have to deactivate when the game becomes mad. Yeah, the magical number is 140, I can confirm this too. Sad but true. Google brought me here because I wanted to know if I'm the only one :wink:

 

After installing a couple of mods more the glitches kicks in. I've tested it this way:

Running the game with 139 plugins and everything is ok. One mod more and the sh*t beginns to start. So I've made 10 totaly stupid "mods" in the GECK and renamed 1 item in every plugin. Then I activated them all and deactivate 10 normal plugins. The game runs fine. After activating 1 of the normal mods the same nightmare started again (a mod that works perfect earlier). So it really doesn't matter what mods are running as long as they're not getting more than 139.

 

SMB92 and Xaranth, I've given you both a kudos because finally I know what's really going on in the modded wasteland. Thanks for that! :smile:

Edited May 6, 2013 by Ablaze666

[SMB92]

@Ablazw - Glad you found this useful :). I have been studying this quite a bit, still haven't found any clue as to what controls this. Well I have had some theories, still testing a few but I doubt anything will come out of it. One thing I wondered was if the game, if it had a certain problem, would that problem cause the save game table to be broken? Anyway I was putting two and two together, but the evidence suggesting FalloutNV.exe is loaded into the 74th slot, makes perfect sense thus killing this idea :(.

 

Where there is a will, there is a way, and modders have the solution ;).

[Ablaze666]

@SMB

The only solution at the moment is merging the mods. I've merged ~120 weapon mods to one big plugin, that helped a lot but it took me a half day of work. And I'm not sure if my plugin it's bugged or not, many tests will be necessary. This time could be spend more meaningful.

But playing without the mods is out of question. I've played over 20 years on various consoles and mods are like a huge wonderland to me. :biggrin: And the community spent a hell of a time to create all the masterpieces, it would be a shame to miss just one of them.

 

 

One thing I wondered was if the game, if it had a certain problem, would that problem cause the save game table to be broken?

 

My first thoughts was something similar. In Skyrim can bad scripts cause the same issue. If a script is running mad, the game doesn't respond, menus wont open, people will not talk to you, saving doesn't work or causing CTDs. It's almost the same scenario in New Vegas. The only differences are the purple menus and the missing textures. With that in mind I started to test each mod if it has broken sripts in it, repeating the same procedure to reproduce the moment when the glitches kicked in. That took me 3 or 4 days to figure out that my testing was futile and the glitches happens when the mod manager showing this damn 140.

 

 

I'm very very curious why the exe is loaded in 74th position. :dry:

There seems to be no reason for that, maybe it's just an oversight by Obsidian. I've bookmarked this thread so when the puzzle is solved I'll notice it soon enough. :smile:

[IceAlchemyX]

I noticed this back in FO3 and have recently found an application on the FNV mods' tools(or w/e it's called) section that lets me merge plugins with the greatest of ease. Since then, I've been merging the many simple mods that I use into bigger files that I name random names. I don't take the unnecessary time to sort out the mods that I merge into groups of related mods. What I do is sort them based on approximate load-order and date-of-download. I also do not merge mods that are too similar, as it may end up overwriting features that I wish to keep. I can also use FNVEdit to prune unnecessary records at my leisure. Sorry this isn't progress on figuring out the problem; I'd need to have access to their game-engine to figure that one out.

[irswat]

I forwarded this thread to the author of the NVAC mod Queued. If anyone can fix this it is him.

This is what I sent:

 

 

 

I'm wondering if you are knowledgeable enough to answer whether this is the reason New Vegas bugs out when trying to load more than 150 mods:

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/915951-theories-on-the-magic-threshold-mod-limit-and-an-interesting-find/

If it is, what is the likelihood of there being a relatively simple fix (similar to your exception handling). Is there a way to capture the function call that FalloutNV.exe loads into memory at block 74 and offset it so it is loaded at 00? If so would you help the community with this issue? It would fit right in with your NVAC mod. What are your thoughts?

 

Edited February 16, 2014 by irswat

[irswat]

Queued responded!

While I was aware New Vegas seemed to have a hard limit of ~140 esp/esm's, I'd never seen anything about it potentially being related to the index being offset by 116. It's certainly logical, and I'd expect there's a reason Mod Organizer claims as much even though the game always lists them starting at 0, but I've never looked into this so have no prior knowledge relating to this.

 

Your first question doesn't really make sense; capture what function call and what blocks?

 

If I can do something about this, I will, but no promises.

1. First I need to confirm esp/esm's are indexed starting at 116 (or whatever greater-than-zero value).
2. Then I'd need to locate where in New Vegas's code the lowest mod index is assigned.
3. Then I'd need to try changing it, plus anywhere else this shift in mod index may be accounted for (for example, the game reports an index of 0 when you get ref ids of base game objects; is it just faking the number for human readability or does it use the zero-based index somewhere internally?).
4. Then I'd need to see if I can locate any side-effects from making this change, since it seems logical that it works this way for a reason.

 

It would make sense for the NVSE guy(s) to have encountered this mod index anomaly during their development; have they ever been asked about / given a response regarding this issue?

 

Queue

Now I need to find a way to get ahold of ianpatt, behippo and scruggsywuggsy or ferret from NVSE.

[Radiowavez]

Has anyone forwarded this thread to Gopher? He's very good at getting information out there and might be able to help, if not other modders or people with experience might take notice and could try to fix the issue. Just a suggestion :)

[irswat]

I personally sent messages to the makers of NVSE, and also to Queued who does the anticrash plugin. I think he is probably the only person in the community who could issue a fix if the OP's hunch is correct.

[Radiowavez]

I was thinking more on the lines of people developing/developers of New Vegas mods. So that they are aware that this is an issue and can adjust how many esp / esms their mod uses. For example the Improved Sounds and FX mod, no merged DLC patch needs an additional 3 esps which is unnecessary and hinders how many mods can be used.

 

Edit: **Link to the mentioned mod : http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/35293/? **