melkormgc Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) If going to war with those Thalmor pricks ain't enough motivation to join the Stormcloaks, I dunno what is.The real enemy of the Thalmor is the Empire. The Empire just has to tolerate them because the Thalmor forced their terms after their war with the Empire. The empire has to strengthen up in order to kick the Thalmor out and reclaim lost territories. The Stormcloacks are just helping the Thalmor unknowingly. If Skyrim breaks away the Thalmor (Aldmeri) will probably claim it completely! You can still join the Imperials and kick Thalmor butt unoficially as you please. Edited February 24, 2013 by melkormgc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpingreenhat Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 @chikawowwowI think you're misreading the dossier. They tortured information out of him -- information which apparently wasn't useful anyway -- but he refuses to have anything to do with them since being released. Calling him "an asset" is just wishful thinking on their part. "Operational Notes:Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), butin general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim." -Operational Notes, Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric Stormcloak He was a "hands-off" asset who was used by the Thalmor to cause problems for the Empire. The Thalmor knew that an all out war with the Empire would result in countless amounts of deaths and therefore needed a third party to intervene to whittle down Imperial forces without causing a decisive victory on either side. At this point the thread is venturing heavily into the 'spoilers' territory, but it's an interesting topic to say the least. Frankly, I feel that the Stormcloaks never make a case for why they should control Skyrim. They're a couple of whiny brats, in my honest opinion, who forget that the Empire needs their help to stop the Thalmor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet4571 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The dossier is obviously being interpreted by pimpingreenhat correctly. Though asset does not need to be police informant level to be an asset. He is an asset plain and simply because he is leading a rebelion against the empire and that in itself is good for the Aldemeri dominion. Thus asset status. About the freedom of religion, if there was no rebelion or threat of one then the Thalmor wouldnt be hauling Nords off for worshiping Talos, case in point Whiterun having a Talos shrine right in plain sight, Markarth has a temple that anyone can worship there and the Thalmor are right inside the Jarls keep, Riften also has a small shrine tucked away by the cemetary. Each location at one point is under imperial influence and never are the shrines touched by the Thalmor and worshipers are ignored by imperial soldiers. The only evidence of active Talos worshipers being harrased is when you visit one of the temples out in the wilds and Thalmor may be waiting to ambush, this shows that Talos is being used as a tool by the Thalmor to incite more people to join the stormcloaks and Talos is an asset for the Thalmor in the same way that Ulfric is. Now my thoughts on how the Nords of Skyrim can flip the ban and Aldemeri dominion the bird and have Talos worship only would be to change it to hero worship. He most definatly was a hero and the ban only removes worshiping him as a divine so the Thalmor couldnt arrest anyone for wearing a Talos symbol or dropping an offering at one of his "memorials" or statues. "No we dont worship him as a god, we look up to him as a great man, a hero of Skyrim! and hope to achieve greatness like he did and for our sons and daughters to as well.". Pulling that stunt would piss the Thalmor off to no end because theres not 1 thing they could do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhalfajob Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Just remember to leave the civil war quests till the very last as they brake the game in a big way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daventry Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Really, why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoriaG Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The only characters I ever join the Stormcloaks with are Nords, I guess you get the feeling they don't like anyone other than Nords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daventry Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Can you imagine we meet Talos and he says, you know the Aldmerin Dominion is right, im Not a God, just a Man living with the Gods, so tell Ulfric and the Nords they can stop Worshipping me. Man that we Blow the Minds of the Aldmeri Dominion in saying I TOLD YOU NORDS SO ;D ;D ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirel_Redhand Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Hi there... Initially, I had the same issues as you. I am a huge roleplay nerd. Then I tood the time to read the ingame books, the backstories, the histories, etc... I read some wiki's from earlier games and I came to a different conclusion. (forgive any spelling or "absolute canon" mistakes - I may be a roleplay nerd, but I'm human ) From a thematic standpoint, the game definitely steers you toward joining the stormcloaks, but after the helgen escape, doesn't present a upfront and compelling reason to do so, unless you are a Nord. In fact, if you play any race but the Nords, the game presents an on-going theme of racial bigotry and isolationism. This makes it pretty damn hard for say, my bosmer to join the stormcloaks and the imperials have no qualms about accepting you for who you are. Again, this makes it difficult to join the stormcloaks. But if you dig deeper into the storyline, You'll see that there is rich depth in the backstory. The Nords feel oppressed. And having grown up as a fundamentalist Christian in a very liberal state, I can identify with that feeling of being a stranger in your own country. Maybe this will help you in your roleplay. Think about it this way. Your family history says that your ancestors founded this great land. We pushed the natives out, we settled. Not only did we settle, but we thrived. Our way is good, our way is strong. Our greatest hero founded the empire. He became a god to us, to everybody. Since that time, the Nords have been one of the twin backbones of the imperial army ( the other being the Redguard ). Because of Talos, the imperial bloodline is Nord (mixed perhaps, but Nord in origin). Recently however, the empire has fallen on hard times. We were attacked by the same elves we've been fighting for the past thousand years. And when the empire called, we answered. We answered hard. Thousands of gallons of Nord blood had been spilled and just as we were about to push these invaders out for good, the damn emperor gives up. The empire turns on us. They want to re-write history. The empire waked in here and at swordpoint, forced the Jarls to sign the compact. F**k the Empire! We started it. Let them see how long they last without us. Just leave us alone. No? You won't leave us alone? Fine. Get the f**k out. Cambroid, the young scion of the Redhand family (who has been thrown out of Morrowind for talking about how much of a stud Talos was), escapes Helgen and heads straight for Winterhold. ************** But what if I'm a Bosmer, how does this help me? Why should I help the Stormcoaks? ************** For this, you need to put your thinking caps on boys and girls. Imagine this.... You are a young girl, the Ly'olem fruit of your daddy's eye. You were born with a mark on your cheek. Your parents took you to Banred'hel, the local witch. She claimed you were a child of the Ice. So your parents named you Snowberry (<-- highly original, I know...*laughs* ) Radras and Enilroth (mum and dad) were druidic necromancers and, well, being Bosmer druidic necromancers , they taught you nature magics, blood magics (FYI - blood magics is how I interpret necromancy) the bow, how to track, etc. You're a gifted kid. anyway.... The local villagers were troubled at the news of war to the north. The old Mer masters were attacking. Wars come and wars go. This one ended strangely. But the emperor is wise. Thats what the elders said. Then strange things started happening. A nord family the next villiage over ( Old Talsgar and his wife Hidar) were arrested because they wouldn't stop worshiping Talos. They were hanged. They weren't the only ones. The returning vets began to spread tales of the Altmer, the old masters. How they seemed to be everywhere and how the Legions had been commanded to work with them. This didn't sit well with the elders. Deadra were summoned and consulted. Young Snowberry had once summoned the spirit of a rabbit back but a deadra? That's like talking to the gods. A foretelling was retold and .... what the hell? The Ice child must go forth. Ice child. Who is the ice child. Probably a Nord. .... .... .... But then the local witch had a dream. There was snowberry, with blue crap on her face, fighting the old masters. Being crazy doesn't hurt when you're an old witch, so the villagers weren't all that surpised when she started dancing and singing naked in the square. " Icy Berry, snowy berry, eaten by the dragon " she kept singing. A week later, still dancing, still singing, she spotted snowberry and shrieked " YOU! You... Icechild! " So you went north. And wrong place, wrong time; the Imperials threw you into a wagon near Helgen. You escape... You're the dragonborn.... And the old masters are influencing the empire. You remember the stories of old and the rage which fuels your people, grows hot. You paint your face bright green, (yea, the old witch got a detail wrong). You are a wild spirit, born of the dragon soul. You've found out that empire has become a puppet of the Aldmeri Dominion,( the old masters). It's time to destroy them. Ulfric can have Skyrim. You don't care. But you can use Ulfric and his rebellion to establish a stronghold in the coming war. You are dragonborn, you are Snowberry assassinnightingalearchmagewerewolf (or vampire )and with the right mods, have all of your followers decked out in spellbinder armor because it's awesomely cool (**with stats that suck). ********************************************************************************************************** You see where I'm going with this? The history and lore of the Elder scrolls has enough depth and breadth to allow for pretty much any combination of unlikely events. It's like real life in that respect. I hope this helps you. Edited February 25, 2013 by Kirel_Redhand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) double post Edited February 25, 2013 by kradus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Can you imagine we meet Talos and he says, you know the Aldmerin Dominion is right, im Not a God, just a Man living with the Gods, so tell Ulfric and the Nords they can stop Worshipping me. Man that we Blow the Minds of the Aldmeri Dominion in saying I TOLD YOU NORDS SO ;D ;D ;D Nah, you can take his blessing, he's the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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