[Upgrading] General questions

[AndrealphusVIII]

Hello

 

At the moment I'm using a PC of over 4 years old and I'm wondering if I should upgrade some components or just buy a new PC all together.

I'm a complete newb when it comes to hardware. I did some research on google, but I still have some questions.

 

My current specs:

• GPU: GeForce 9600 GT
• Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 (4 GB RAM)
• PSU: 450 Watt
• This motherboard: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/M3A785GXH128M/
• OS: Win7 32bit

Why do I want to upgrade?

• Short term: Playing Skyrim heavily modded on mid-high settings with as less CTDs/lag/... as possible. Mods I would like to use:
  • Overhaul mods (like SkyRe, ERSO, UFO, CH, ...)
  • Some graphical enhancing mods (Climates of Tamriel, ENBs if possible, WATER,...)
  • 2 or 3 followers (at the same time) (1 custom follower: Vilja or Cerwiden, plus 1 or 2 Vanilla followers)
  • Quest mods (Moonpath to Elsweyr, Apprentice of Thu'um,...)
  • Immersion Mods (Chesko Frostfall, Realistic Needs and Diseases,...)
  • Armor/weapon Mods: (Immersive Armors, Immersive Weapons as well as some smaller ones)
• Long term:
  • Playing The Elder Scrolls Online and various other MMORPGs and single player RPGs yet to come
  • Mainly heavy gaming + experimenting on modding games with as less performance issues as possible

Questions: (Sorry if they may sound newbish. :-/ )

1. Short term: I'm thinking of upgrading my Win7 32bit to 64bit to have more RAM available for Skyrim (less CTDs). Is this worth it? Will I notice any difference?
2. If I should upgrade my GPU to GeForce GTX 650 (requires PCIe 3.0), will it fit in my PCIe 2.0 x16 slot?
3. I'm also considering to upgrade my GPU and my Processor. But I read somewhere that it will be better to go for a whole new PC altogether because of how old my GPU and Processor are. So should I just upgrade some components or buy a whole new PC straight away?

Sorry for any grammatical/spelling mistakes. English isn't my main language.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Kind Regards

Andre

[Illiad86]

To your questions:

 

1. Yes, upgrading to 64 bit will be a huge help. 64 bit will allow you to use 4GB of RAM. More RAM is always good ;) CTDs in Skyrim...well that's a mixed bag haha. Most of it is from mod conflicts, dirty saves, and sometimes Skyrim just wants to be a turd and crash :P

 

2. Yes, it will fit in the slot....but it will run a bit slower than it should. The card I have currently was originally in a PCI-e 1.0 slot, went to 2.0 later on.

 

3. What speed is your processor at? I have a Phenom II quad core, but it's overclocked to 4GHz. A lot of those Skyrim mods you mentioned are as much CPU dependant as GPU. Having your processor over 3GHz helps alot with performance.

 

It's all really on what you have to spend. I would upgrade the graphics card for now. Your CPU is old, but it's still a good one.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Illiad86

[AndrealphusVIII]

 

3. What speed is your processor at? I have a Phenom II quad core, but it's overclocked to 4GHz. A lot of those Skyrim mods you mentioned are
as much CPU dependant as GPU. Having your processor over 3GHz helps a lot with performance.

 

Accourding to dxdiag: My processor is at ~ 3.0 GHz

 

If I were to upgrade my PC, my budget would be about 1000 EUR (around 1400 USD) at absolute max. But I think I'm going to wait for a while until I know what specs are recommended for TESO.

 

Thanks for answering my questions :) Really appreciated! ;)

[AndrealphusVIII]

Another newb question:

 

I heard that a 64bit OS takes about 1GB of RAM doing nothing. At the moment I can use 3.328 GB of RAM (from my total of 4GB of RAM from my Processor) with my 32bit.

 

But when I upgrade to Win7 64bit, the OS will take 1GB of RAM. So I'll end up with only 3 GB (4GB total minus 1GB used by the OS) of RAM to use? I would be better of with the 32 bit version?

 

I'm a little confused now.

[Beriallord]

Honestly your PC is in need of a full overhaul.

 

Especially the GPU. Its very old.

 

The one thing you can probably salvage is the motherboard. I'm not an AMD person, but you should look into upgrading to at least an FX 6300, its AM3+ socket, and I'm not sure if your board can use that CPU or not. I've heard of people using AM3+ chips in AM3 boards though. At best case scenario, your board can use an FX 6300 or better, then you should keep it, if not then I'd recommend upgrading that.

 

Also what kind of tower do you got? Is it a mini-tower or a mid tower? Is it OEM, or a custom build?

 

Also I'd recomment a GPU with at least 2GBs of Vram if you want to play skyrim heavily modded. You need it for the higher resolution textures. Something like a Radeon 7850 2gb card would be good for what you want. Run you about $200.

 

Something else you want to make sure of is if your PSU has the proper connectors to hook into your GPU. The great news is PSUs aren't terribly expensive even if the one you got won't work. You could get a suitable PSU for around $50-$60.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Beriallord

[FMod]

Short term: I'm thinking of upgrading my Win7 32bit to 64bit to have more RAM available for Skyrim (less CTDs). Is this worth it? Will I notice any difference?

Only if the upgrade is free.

As far as I know it's not free. TBH even if free, it wouldn't even be worth the hassle of reinstalling the OS. You would access 4GB instead of 3.3GB, but 64-bit operation takes more memory, so there will be no real increase.

 

There are also ways to access that memory on 32-bit systems.

Also, while Skyrim can use 3GB (it can't use 4, but can use 3), that's only when it's modded, and modded enough that your system won't handle it.

If I should upgrade my GPU to GeForce GTX 650 (requires PCIe 3.0), will it fit in my PCIe 2.0 x16 slot?

Yes.

I'm also considering to upgrade my GPU and my Processor. But I read somewhere that it will be better to go for a whole new PC altogether because of how old my GPU and Processor are. So should I just upgrade some components or buy a whole new PC straight away?

Your CPU is mostly OK. You need to tell the exact model though. Clock rate matters.

 

But generally Phenom II X4 is OK. Even today there's a lot of people buying these for a new PC. And not as a scrape-by low-end option.

 

3570K would be faster, of course. But your PC's weak spot is the video card.

Your motherboard certainly isn't ancient and could handle another 2x4GB of DDR3 RAM. That memory will be compatible with any future upgrade as well.

 

GPU-wise you can go for HD7850, it will be about the right fit for you. 7870 better still.

If you aren't going to buy at least HD7870 or GTX660, don't think about replacing the whole PC. More practically you'd want to be looking at HD7950.

 

HD7850 is a $170 part, 7870 a $220 part. HD7950 is a $300 part that you can get for $280 if you aren't concerned about noise. If you are, either get a 660Ti for $280, which is quieter but not as fast, or a Gigabyte HD7950 for $305, which is quieter.

 

For an upgrade I would recommend these 3 parts:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202025

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231550

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020

 

 

Should you bother with 64-bit OS at that point? You shouldn't have bought Win7 32 in the first place. But, if you'd have to buy a fresh new OS - they aren't cheap - I would still say no. Instead, you'll need to install a couple free programs and set them up. Properly installed, you will have the full 8GB of RAM available.

 

In fact, with Windows XP pre-SP2 (32-bit), that would still be the case. They intentionally disabled this functionality (PAE). What you'll do is set up a RAM drive and put your paging file on it. Windows uses a virtual memory model, so it's completely transparent.

 

To consider buying a new PC, you'll need at least the parts above or better. Then you'd install a 64-bit OS, since then your old PC can be sold whole with its 32-bit one.

[kalikka]

Made a Mindfactory shopping cart.

Mindfactory is in Germany, postals abroad cost 30€ (at least to Finland, which is also in EU) and 30€ extra if you also order a case (buy the case from your own country to cut the costs).

 

7870XT is 7930, few % slower than stock 7950.

Xeon 1230v2 is i7-3770 without the iGPU.

Edited February 22, 2013 by kalikka

[AndrealphusVIII]

Thanks for the replies :smile:

Also what kind of tower do you got? Is it a mini-tower or a mid tower? Is it OEM, or a custom build?

I'm using a mid tower. Back in November 2009, I bought this PC. It's mostly OEM.
Back then, I only asked some extra information about the CPU and GPU. (At that time, I didn't had in mind to use this PC for heavy gaming though.)

Your CPU is mostly OK. You need to tell the exact model though. Clock rate matters.

In System Properties and dxdiag, it tells me this about my CPU: "AMD Phenom II x4 945 Processor 2.99 GHz"

For an upgrade I would recommend these 3 parts:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814202025
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820231550
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817139020

So in short you suggest:

• GPU -> Sapphire Radeon HD 7870
• PSU -> CORSAIR Enthusiast TX650 V2
• Extra RAM -> G.SKILL Ares Series (2x 4GB) Model F3-1866C9D-8GAB
• Keep Win7 32bit but use some free software to have more RAM avaliable

Some more (rather newbie) questions:

• That extra RAM you suggested. It will be my first time actually using those. So I can just insert them on my motherboard and then they will give an additional 8GB of RAM? (Any software required?)
• Is there a tutorial about how to install and use the free programs to make more RAM available on 32bit?
• When I have done these upgrades, will it only be for temporary use? Or will my PC be good for a bit longer (2 to 3 years) when it comes to gaming?

I'm asking this because I don't know if it's a good idea to spend all my money on a whole new PC now, just to play Skyrim heavily modded.
I know I will have to buy a new one eventually though.

But it may be better for me to save some money now, by not buying a completely new one but keeping most of my current one and just upgrading some parts.
That way, I can use the money I saved now to buy an uber PC later, when TESO (or another game I want to play) will be released.

Thanks in advance

Kind regards :wink:
Andre

Edit:

Made a Mindfactory shopping cart.

Mindfactory is in Germany, postals abroad cost 30€ (at least to Finland, which is also in EU) and 30€ extra if you also order a case (buy the case from your own country to cut the costs)

7870XT is 7930, few % slower than stock 7950.

Thanks! I'll take a look at it right now. :smile:

Edited February 22, 2013 by AndrealphusVIII

[FMod]

In System Properties and dxdiag, it tells me this about my CPU: "AMD Phenom II x4 945 Processor 2.99 GHz"

If you buy a cooler for it and o/c it a little - say to 3.5 - it should do for a while.

 

Cooler:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118099 seems good.

 

So in short you suggest:

Yes. If you have the time, you could also add a new CPU cooler. But it may take a lot of hassle removing the motherboard to mount it.

 

I assume you live in US and will buy from Newegg and these exact parts. Otherwise the optimum shopping list will be different.

 

All these parts will remain useful for the next build. Cooler as well.

That extra RAM you suggested. It will be my first time actually using those. So I can just insert them on my motherboard and then they will give an additional 8GB of RAM? (Any software required?)

Yes, required. The software I linked.

 

Not sure about tutorial, but I'll explain when you have it all assembled.

In short you create a 4GB RAM drive, then put your paging file there and only there.

 

Don't add RAM, just replace it. This new RAM will be faster. And 8GB is plenty.

When I have done these upgrades, will it only be for temporary use? Or will my PC be good for a bit longer (2 to 3 years) when it comes to gaming?

I can't tell. But it should be adequate for multi-platform games. Most CPU actually sold are only as fast as yours.

I'm asking this because I don't know if it's a good idea to spend all my money on a whole new PC now, just to play Skyrim heavily modded.

You could think about what mods to drop. Anything CPU-intensive. And cut down on some distances. Shadows off completely.

 

I have a pretty much top of the line (as far as dual-threaded Skyrim cares) CPU running at 4.8 GHz and Skyrim still lags if modded; there's no way around it.

 

That way, I can use the money I saved now to buy an uber PC later, when TESO (or another game I want to play) will be released.

TESO shouldn't be demanding on hardware at all.

Most console ports will work.

 

I can't say about uber, but in 2-3 years you'll at least keep up with the times.

 

If nothing else, the components I suggested will not be sunk costs. You can always pull them out and put them into your new PC. Nothing lost.