AK 74 AK 74M

[Brigand231]

I think what Gribble is saying is that regardless of the attachments, an M4 is still and M4, regardless of what stock, sight, grip, or tactical attachments it has. The name may be a variant, but it is still an M4. The question it forces is why is it such a big deal to be nitpicky over the same concept when it's an AK weapon? A an AK74 is an AK74. An AK74U is still an AK74. An AK74M is still an AK74 just like you can have different variants of the same automobile or PC. The difference may be a big deal to you but not everyone is required to agree.

 

"Different models of the same gun" same gun is same gun.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Brigand231

[becauseofreasons]

I hate being a pedant, but that's incorrect. It's way more than just a stock, sight, grip or tactical attachment.

Some analogies --

It's the difference between an M4 and an M16, if you're an American gun person.

The difference between instruments - a Fender Stratocaster or a Fender P-bass. Same platform, different instruments, different uses.

The difference between sodas - Coke or Pepsi. Same base flavor - cola - but different drinks.

Difference between an iPhone and an iPod Touch. Looks the same, same OS, not the same thing.

[dangman4ever]

Again becauseofreasons makes an excellent series of points: The AKS-74U is still vastly different compared to the AK-74. If we were strictly talking about the AK-74 VS AK-74M, you'd have a small point (small since I could really be nitpicky about it). But we're talking about the AKS-74u and AK-74. As noted by becauseofreasons, the difference between the AKS-74u and AK-74 is similar to the differences you see between the M4 and M16. The M4 and M16 are not the same gun. They may be based off the same platform but they're not the same gun.

 

In this case, there's a visual difference (the AKS-74u's shorter overall length and compact look), lethality difference, and internal difference between the AK-74 and AKS-74u.

[Brigand231]

They're variants of the parent model according to this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74

 

Wikipedia isn't an authority, of course, and can be opinion driven, but if something is downright wrong it's usually challenged and removed. Can you provide any actual references to support what you are saying?

Edited March 21, 2013 by Brigand231

[yungskiz]

i remember a huge mod that added all sorts of guns to the game. shrapnell or something...i guess the mod and creator were removed from the nexus. i was told that most of the models came from battlefield. ill never understand the issues behind porting....its interesting though, that mod is nowhere to be found. it pops up now and again in forums.....its kind of like bigfoot :)

 

but anyway on to my point, when you get a mod that adds 100's of guns, clothes, armors, foodstuffs....or whatever....it breaks the game :/

 

all of a sudden you have this vast amount of content that you never really get around to using.....you spend a bunch of time sampling the modded content, adding all of the gun mods to all of the guns to see what they would look like and before you know it an hour has gone by and how much of the game have you really played? a while ago i realized its more enjoyable to just find that one thing that your looking for and stick with it.

 

its however you want to play the game, but i mean say you do get all the members of the kalashnikov family, then what? carry 2 or three and use the rest to decorate your house with?

 

spend a day looking for mods, and not even have enough time to play the game :) or realize that your not playing fallout new vegas anymore, your just running around, collecting the content from 3 gigs of mods you downloaded last week.... food for thought.

 

and sorry, if you read this far i planned on putting up a few links to mods created by imperator3....but i cant find them....or him for that matter....looks like they got banned too...

[yungskiz]

.....thats why theres two pages....an argument over gun specs started :) the kalash series brings two points to my mind:

 

1. the reason that the ak is as reliable as it is, and that its so iconic is that you can fit a bus through the thing. the mud in the reicever doesnt matter because you can still fit more mud in there.

 

2. the M in akm translates roughly into "modernized" - call whatever part on the system "modernized" that you want, all that means is that they finally made the stamped reciever concept work....after all this time theyre still so cheap.....but hey it works...

[yungskiz]

http://newvegas.nexusmods.com/mods/42970 this might help

[dangman4ever]

They're variants of the parent model according to this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74

 

Wikipedia isn't an authority, of course, and can be opinion driven, but if something is downright wrong it's usually challenged and removed. Can you provide any actual references to support what you are saying?

It's right there in the Wikipedia article:

 

In 1979, a shortened carbine variant of the AKS-74 was adopted into service with the Soviet Army: the AKS-74U ("U" — Russian: укороченный; Ukorochenniy, or "shortened"), which in terms of tactical deployment, bridges the gap between a submachine gun and an assault rifle. It was intended for use mainly with special forces, airborne infantry, rear-echelon support units and armored vehicle crews. It is still used in these roles, but has been augmented by various submachine guns, and the AK-105. It is also commonly used by law enforcement; for example, each urban police foot patrol is issued at least one.

 

The rifle's compact dimensions, compared to the AKS-74, were achieved by using a short 210 mm (8.3 in) barrel (this forced designers to simultaneously reduce the gas piston operating rod to an appropriate length). In order to effectively stabilize projectiles, the barrel’s twist rate was increased from 200 mm (1:8 in) to 160 mm (1:6.3 in) to adapt the AKS-74U for muzzle velocities of 720 m/s (2,362 ft/s) and higher. A new gas block was installed at the muzzle end of the barrel with a new conical flash hider combined with a cylindrical muzzle booster, which features an internal expansion chamber that increases the weapon's reliability. The booster supplies an increased amount of residual gas from the barrel for the gas system. The chrome-lined muzzle booster also burns any remaining propellant thus reducing the gun's signature. The muzzle device locks into the gas block with a spring-loaded detent and features two notches cut into the flash hider cone, used for disassembly using the supplied cleaning rod. The forward sling loop was relocated to the left side of the carbine and the front sight was integrated into the gas block.

 

The AKS-74U also has a different sighting system with a U-shaped flip sight instead of the standard sliding notch rear sight. This sight has two settings: "P" (calibrated for firing at 350 m) and "4–5" (used for firing at distances between 400–500 m). The rear sight is housed in a semi-shrouded protective enclosure that is riveted to the receiver's top cover. This top cover is integral with the gas tube cover and hinged from the barrel trunnion, pivoting forward when opened. Both the gas tube and handguard are also of a new type and are shorter than the analogous parts in the AKS-74.

 

The AKS-74U is significantly more maneuverable in tight quarters than the AKS-74; however, the significant decline in muzzle velocity from 900 m/s (2,953 ft/s) to 735 m/s (2,411 ft/s) resulted in a decrease in effective range (the effective hitting distance for a "running"-type silhouette target was reduced from 625 m (684 yd) to 350 m (383 yd). The carbine cannot mount a bayonet or standard under-barrel grenade launcher. However, a suppressed 30 mm BS-1 grenade launcher was developed specifically for that platform that fires a high-explosive dual purpose (HEDP) grenade. The grenades for the BS-1 are launched by special blank cartridges that are inserted into the grenade launcher via a detachable magazine. The majority of AKS-74U carbines were manufactured at the Tula Arms Factory rather than Izhmash. The AKS-74U was also used as the basis for several other unique weapons, including the bullpup OTs-14 Groza specialist carbine, and the Gepard series of multi-caliber submachine guns (none of which evolved past prototype stage).

 

Note all the items they had to change on the AKS-74 to turn it into the AKS-74u. So while the AKS-74u is a variant of the AK-74, it is not the same gun as the AK-74. In other words, variant != same. So when you said this: ""Different models of the same gun" same gun is same gun.", I have to disagree. They're not the same gun since there are noticeable differences.

 

Yes this is basically semantics. If you had said "similar", I wouldn't have nitpicked as much. But you used the word "same".

Edited March 21, 2013 by dangman4ever

[Brigand231]

Yes this is basically semantics. If you had said "similar", I wouldn't have nitpicked as much. But you used the word "same".

I think I see what you're getting at. I did use the word "same" as I was quoting a previous poster. I do apologize for having turned this more into a debate than the mod request it was intended to be. I'm thinking the confusion sets in when we have two different conventions or schools of thought. When comparing an M-16 to an M-16A2 or other variant, it is considered the same gun even though they have different parts that are not interchangeable. An M-16A1, and M-16A2, and an M-16A3 are not the same gun, but they ARE all M-16's. When regarding these AK weapons, it seems that the school of thought is different (an AK-74 is an AK-74, but an AK-74M is NOT an AK-74) - which is fine. I think We're dealing with two different standards (east meets west) and terms are not always interchangeable.

 

I sincerely appreciate all involved taking the time to explain the differences in a way I was eventually able to comprehend. I strive for accuracy and appreciate your patience in detailing what I was not comprehending. I hope that I was also able to illustrate my own perspective with as much respect and consideration; I know that I have had trouble with that in the past.

[dangman4ever]

 

Yes this is basically semantics. If you had said "similar", I wouldn't have nitpicked as much. But you used the word "same".

I think I see what you're getting at. I did use the word "same" as I was quoting a previous poster. I do apologize for having turned this more into a debate than the mod request it was intended to be. I'm thinking the confusion sets in when we have two different conventions or schools of thought. When comparing an M-16 to an M-16A2 or other variant, it is considered the same gun even though they have different parts that are not interchangeable. An M-16A1, and M-16A2, and an M-16A3 are not the same gun, but they ARE all M-16's. When regarding these AK weapons, it seems that the school of thought is different (an AK-74 is an AK-74, but an AK-74M is NOT an AK-74) - which is fine. I think We're dealing with two different standards (east meets west) and terms are not always interchangeable.

 

I sincerely appreciate all involved taking the time to explain the differences in a way I was eventually able to comprehend. I strive for accuracy and appreciate your patience in detailing what I was not comprehending. I hope that I was also able to illustrate my own perspective with as much respect and consideration; I know that I have had trouble with that in the past.

You're still a tad off: No one here is saying that the AK-74M is not an AK-74. It's a variant of the AK-74. Just like how the M16A1, A2, A3, and A4 are all variants of the base M16.All of the mentioned rifles are exactly that: rifles. Thus they can be said to be of the family. Basically what you said earlier: They're not the same rifle but they're M16s. Same applies to the AK-74M and AK-74: They're not the same rifle but they are AK-74s.

 

 

However now we're talking about the AKS-74u, which is a carbine, not a rifle exactly. A lot of carbines are shortened versions of rifles. But that doesn't make them rifles by name.

 

So the AKS-74u is to the AK-74 as the M4 is to the M16. That is the AKS-74u is a modified/updated carbine variant of the AK-74 whereas the M4A1 is a modified/updated carbine variant of the M16A2. Thus you can't say that the AKS-74u and AK-74M are all AK-74s when you can't say that the M4, M16A3, and M16A4 are all M16s. In other words, the Russian naming convention is what's probably confusing you a tad.

 

So while there is a bit of a east meets west idea coming here, it's mostly the naming convention: For the carbine variant of the M16, the U.S military gave it a different model number. The Russians just added a S and u into the name and considered that a different enough identifier from the rifle version.

Edited March 21, 2013 by dangman4ever