Gun control and violence

[UberBender]

Finally, someone on my side other than Tyjet.

[Darnoc]

Peregrine, as reply to your last question concerning military guns in Switzerland:

 

This is a fact. Everyone who enters the military receives a military gun and has to keep it in order. But the fact is also that those guns are almost never used in any crime, the last time a military weapon was used in a crime was during the massacre of Zug in 2001.

 

The reason I see for this lies directly in our culture, tradition, history and way of life. Switzerland had to defend itself all the time against aggressors, because it was the only democracy surrounded by countries ruled by nobles and kings. For a long time, Switzerland thought that attack was the best defence. The Swiss used for the first time during the middle ages infantry-only-armys and developed anti-cavallry-tactics. So you could say we were the first modern army in the sense that we were the first ones to develope sole-infantry-tactics. This went on until Swiss troops were defeated 1515 in Mariagno, northern Italy. From then on Switzerland developed the philosophy that staying neutral completely is the best way of defence. This method proved to be right.

 

Switzerland therefore has a long tradition of neutrality and non-violence. This even goes so far that we had already two people's initiatives to abolish the army. People do no longer see the use of the army in a country which didn't fight a war for centuries.

 

But not only this. Switzerland developed a climate of solving problems through debating, because of our direct democracy.

 

Those two things, neutrality and direct democracy, do influence our culture and society quiet heavy. This leads that Switzerland is very conservative, change comes slow, since we need so long to debate things. And since there is no party which really has a majority, the different parties have to work together. That reflects on society, for example most cases in front of courts end in compromises. Complete neutrality reflects on society not only that more and more people do no longer see the sense of the army, but also that you just don't use weapons. We learned to live with the fact that we have the responsibilty to look after our military weapons and return them one day when our days of service have ended.

 

Responsibility is another key word. Responsibility is very important in Swiss society. Perhaps this is the reason why a lot of people think we do not possess humour, because we are always earnest and thinking of our responsibilities. There are just things which do not happen, there are responsibilities which everyone receives from society. Reputation is very important in Swiss society. And therefore certain things are just not done. Like using a military weapon.

 

As you might see, our historic roots and development of our society enables us to bear the responsibility of possessing weapons. We are very earnest concerning such things. This is something which lacks US-society. And there lies probably the problem of the US-society concerning not only guns, but also their murderrate. Remember, we do have still a higher rate of foreigners in our country and still our murder rate is lower.

[Peregrine]

Peregrine, as reply to your last question concerning military guns in Switzerland:

 

This is a fact. Everyone who enters the military receives a military gun and has to keep it in order. But the fact is also that those guns are almost never used in any crime, the last time a military weapon was used in a crime was during the massacre of Zug in 2001.

My point exactly. "Evil powerful full-auto weapons of mass destruction" that Americans could only dream of owning legally are owned by nearly everyone in Switzerland. But despite the availability of these weapons, they don't get used in crimes. If widespread gun ownership itself was enough to produce crime, then Switzerland would have a massive crime rate.

 

Therefore the problem isn't the guns.

[UberBender]

So are you saying that if these guns were more widly availible (in the US) that the crime/murder rate would go down?

[Darnoc]

No, I say if USA had the same historical and cultural background as Switzerland, guns wouldn't be a problem. Since you don't have this, the solution must be different for the USA than it is for Switzerland.

 

When I was talking about "Lesser guns=Lesser crimes" I reffered to the situation in the USA. And I meant not military weapons, but personal weapons. Which are not as easy to get in Switzerland as in the USA. And still the weapon laws in Switzerland are less strict than in the EU.

 

P.S.: Peregrine, I just edited my last post and added a lot, perhaps you ought to read that too. Just as a note...

[UberBender]

There is a very fine line between personal and military weapons in the US.

 

Gun companies often put out a "civilian model" for all there military models.

 

Someone can easily get the parts to make it full automatic off the internet. (even though it is considered illegal)

[Darnoc]

Am I the only one who thinks we are rushing through different topics? We were first at the reason why the USA is hated so much and now we landed at guns and murderrates. While I think the topic interesting, I think we should also go on debating the reasons why the USA is hated so much, since I think this is more important than the "gun-question". But this is only my oppinion...

[Zmid]

My point exactly. "Evil powerful full-auto weapons of mass destruction" that Americans could only dream of owning legally are owned by nearly everyone in Switzerland. But despite the availability of these weapons, they don't get used in crimes. If widespread gun ownership itself was enough to produce crime, then Switzerland would have a massive crime rate.

 

Therefore the problem isn't the guns.

Granted, but guns being freely available certainly helps violent crime to be carried out.

 

Plus, as Darnoc points out, military weapons are more easily gotten in Switzerland, but personal weapons aren't. As I understand it, everyone has to have this military weapon, but they go through training so that they use this weapon responsibly (if they use it at all) and to make sure they treat it with respect, and know to use it only if they have to (I could be wrong about this, however). This is not true in the US.

[UberBender]

You're semi-correct, while you can own a regular hunting rifle, you need a Concealed Weapons Licensce to carry/own a handgun or revolver around.

[Zmid]

....and it's fairly easy to get said licence.