Gun control and violence

[UberBender]

Yes but you can't just say "Oh, I think I will go out and buy a handgun today."

 

It takes anywhere from a month to four to get the license. It is easy but time consuming.

[Zmid]

But it is easy. Anyone who wants a gun just has to apply for a licence and wait a bit. In Britain (which, in many ways, is the closest country socially speaking to the US), you have to have a good reason to get a licence and there's not that many places that actually sell guns either (probably as a consequence of the difficulty in getting a licence). As a result, gun crime is far more rare.

[Stormscape]

Ah but the criminals don't seem to have difficulty obtaining Semi-Automatics...

[Darnoc]

Interesting to notice then that criminals in Switzerland do not seem to commit their crimes with automatics or semi-automatics. Almost no crime is commited with an automatic or semi-automatic weapon, the last crime was in 2001, the massacre of Zug (where a military automatic weapon was used).

 

The only persons which have automatic weapons are the ones which are in the military. Which is almost every Swiss citizen. Most murders or shootings are commited by foreigners, which have no chance to go to the army. It seems as if the weapons black market for automatic and semi-automatic weapons does not exist in Switzerland, since all crimes are commited with personal weapons. The murders commited by Swiss citizens are mostly family dramas (like a week ago in Lenk where a father shot his wife and his children, because his wife wanted a divorce), other murders (drug murders for example) are commited mostly by foreigners. A reason why a lot of people are calling for stricter laws concerning foreigners, especially criminal foreigners.

 

The only black market for automatic and semi-automatic weapons existing in Switzerland is probably the one for those who can pay a lot. Meaning terrorist organizations and organized crime, mostly Italian and Russian Mafia. But I am not sure there. What I know is that Switzerland is known to clean money for organized crime through Swiss banks.

[Arrow_Diet]

Perhaps the issue shouldn't just be gun control but also teaching people better morals. Most people wouldn't consider killing another person because it's been driven into them that killing is bad.

Accidents DO happen, and people can get hurt when accidents happen. My main problem with guns is that it makes killing people easier (along with bombs, planes, what-have-you.) With, say (ok, this is gonna sound corny) a sword, you gotta have some serious intent on killing that person for them to be dead. Where as a gun, point it at their chest, and bang, they go down.

For some reason, seeing a gun brings (usually) two reactions out of people, one or the other. The thought, "Oooh, let's shoot something," or "GAH! Get it away!!"

 

We all have valid opinions, and I desided to throw my horribly spelled one in for thought. :innocent:

[Zmid]

Ah but the criminals don't seem to have difficulty obtaining Semi-Automatics...

But having firearms totally illegal would make it very difficult for them to keep them, and make it harder for them to get them in the first place.

[UberBender]

A criminal would not use a registered gun. We could easily track them that way.

 

They are already using illegal guns and if there was a law against all guns it would not matter to them. They are using illegal guns anyway.

[Malchik]

I sometimes feel that those members of this forum who say 'it couldn't work' are doing so because they have a vested interest in keeping the status quo (i.e they like the idea of having a gun). Actually if society wanted it it would work, particularly with these new cameras that can pick up if a gun is being carried as you walk past.

 

To lighten the debate a little I have fished out a Tom Lehrer lyric that amuses me. It is relevent believe it or not.

 

The Hunting Song

 

I always will remember,

'Twas a year ago November,

I went out to hunt some deer

On a morning bright and clear.

I went and shot the maximum the game laws would allow:

Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a cow.

 

I was in no mood to trifle,

I took down my trusty rifle

And went out to stalk my prey.

What a haul I made that day!

I tied them to my fender, and I drove them home somehow:

Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a cow.

 

The law was very firm, it

Took away my permit,

The worst punishment I ever endured.

It turned out there was a reason,

Cows were out of season,

And one of the hunters wasn't insured.

 

People ask me how I do it,

And I say "There's nothin' to it,

You just stand there lookin' cute,

And when something moves, you shoot!"

And there's ten stuffed heads in my trophy room right now:

Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a pure-bred Guernsey cow.

[tyjet3]

the last crime was in 2001

 

I find that VERY hard o believe... You can't tell me that NOTHING crime related has happened in Switzerland in the last three years!

 

They are already using illegal guns and if there was a law against all guns it would not matter to them. They are using illegal guns anyway.

 

-in first grade teacher voice-

Yeah... you see evreyone there is this place called a "black market"... It is a place where you buy "illegal stuff"...

 

 

You anti-gun people seem to be very nieve... Removing guns from a society that has accepted them will elivate crime to unbelieveable numbers... Criminals would see it as a chance for them to get away with anything.

[Peregrine]

the last crime was in 2001

 

I find that VERY hard o believe... You can't tell me that NOTHING crime related has happened in Switzerland in the last three years!

No, the last crime comitted with a military rifle was then. Which proves my point exactly: it's not the guns that are the problem.

 

============

 

Malchik, it couldn't work for a very simple reason. As I said earlier, guns have an extremely long lifetime. Even if not a single gun were made after this moment, the ones that exist already would last for hundreds of years. A well made gun simply isn't going to disappear if taken care of. And then you've got stuff like the AK-47 which could be packed away "just in case" and be perfectly useable when taken out again. Then add in the ease of making new weapons (Anyone with basic machine tools can make a simple smg like the Sten, the Brittish did it in WWII for about $5 a gun).

 

Then of course there's the problem with enforcing the ban. Just look at drugs right now... they're completely illegal and banned from production and import, but does that stop anything? If drugs can get in, illegal guns would get in just as easily.

 

So what's the result of all this? The people who care about the laws get disarmed, and the criminals don't. Perhaps that's your idea of a good world, but I'll take the ability to defend myself.