Stormcloaks and Nazi Germany

[sisterof]

Also, though the OP has invited the direct comparison....I wonder if some of you know of any other that the Nazi's. Racism, secret police, charismatic leaders...these things have been part of many "empires" not just that of Nazi Germany. I would love too see some of you find other comparisons and see how they stand up.

Precisely my point. Nazism has several points that distinguish it from other racist movements, the leader cult is extremely relevant in their belief. As an example, one of the things they preached was basically "the population as a whole does not have to understand what must be done or what is going on, they just must blindly trust that the Leader knows". So I still think the comparison even with the Aldmeri Dominion is very flawed. The Dominion doesn't have genocide either. They have war and kidnappings, but no concentration camps at all. There is a certain strong connection between the two groups but it's far from a direct "real world to fantasy" translation.

 

The Stormcloaks have nothing to do with Nazism either. Absolutely nothing. I'm not that familiar with history in general to offer better comparisons, but the elements of the Stormcloak Rebellion are much more aligned with revolutionary movements. I would look at the American colonies in our real world, also at Scotland and at Russia, before looking at Germany. They don't seek to form an empire and conquer, nor drive away different races and creeds. They are defending the structure of their homeland as they understand it, in the face of overwhelming opposition from a nation with imperialistic tendencies (the Dominion). They aren't attacking - they are standing their ground.

Edited March 23, 2013 by sisterof

[Tidus44]

I do not see the comparison of Ulfric or the Thalmor to socialist Germany of the 1930's and 40's. While certain similar elements do exist, they are not consistent nor significant enough to make me think of Nazism. Honestly, on first playing Skyrim my first thought was of the October Revolution. Then I thought of Oliver Cromwell. Then after about 1/2 dozen other revolutions and civil wars passed through my mind I realized the storyline of Skyrim is sufficiently generic that any number of comparisons to any number of historical invasions, civil wars or revolts can be made.

I also realized that as one played the game there is sufficient reasons to love/hate any one of the key players/sides for any number of reasons and that the game was made deliberately so in order to not sway opinion one way or another but more importantly to allow choices so the game can be played differently each time. There is no right or wrong, just choices.

 

Again, I see others with the same thoughts, that the Skyrim story is sufficiently generic to allow one to make comparisons to any number of historical events. And it is interesting to see the reasoning for why such comparisons are made.

[Lisnpuppy]

Exactly Tidus...and I think if the developers did make stronger comparisons, as you said....it would limit our ability to choose a side as it would be difficult to see the "right" or one or another.

[positronics]

~godwin's law

This.

 

Ulfric isn't even racist, some of his subalterns are towards elves and that's an understandable prejudice having fought against the Dominion in the Great War. He's a calculating politician that knows how to throw the red meat, he is a nationalist revolutionary, and he's willing to die in battle for the cause. Any number of historical people, including George Washington, could fit this generic bill.

 

And of course Ulfric supports Jarls who in turn support him, he'd be a complete idiot if he didn't. They share the same ideology in regards to Talos and are anti-Thalmor, why wouldn't they support each other?

 

Which is Good and which is Bad is the wrong way to look at the Skyrim Civil War, since it's made to be a grey war with no easy villains. The answer you should be asking yourself is what will the future look like if Skyrim wins vs. if the Empire wins.

Edited March 23, 2013 by positronics

[moxrox]

I found the wiki elderscroll article..

 

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Stormcloaks

 

 

 

 

 

The war between the empire and the stormcloaks is loosely based around the russian revolution and the irish 1916 rising/irish civil war.

 

Some parts of it reminds on the Skyrim Story

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Civil_War

 

 

Edited March 24, 2013 by moxrox

[urboyfriend]

Ulfric is not Hitler more like your stereotypical 1600 Spaniard who:

 

Acts righteous

gets offended when talked against their religion

Goes to your homeland and claim their own(forsworn conflict) one third of skyrim originally belongs to the reachmen

racist

social stratifier

supports slavery

Have Cronies that are corrupt

Edited March 24, 2013 by urboyfriend

[MasterAub]

Also, though the OP has invited the direct comparison....I wonder if some of you know of any other that the Nazi's. Racism, secret police, charismatic leaders...these things have been part of many "empires" not just that of Nazi Germany. I would love too see some of you find other comparisons and see how they stand up.

You are absolutely right...Well anyhow I am with the Forsworn, those are the real freedom fighters of Skyrim... :biggrin: More seriously it's a shame you can't be one of them the game :biggrin:

[gizmologist]

I see the Thalmor as more like the Soviet Union than Nazi Germany. But then, I'm an old Cold Warrior, so maybe I'm biased.

 

I don't believe that Hitler was elected (the Nazi's lost the election rather badly), but was instead appointed (Chancellor was it?) by Hindenburg. Also, he is responsible for a lot more than 6 million dead - that was just the Jews! He killed at least that many more, mostly Eastern Europeans, as well as ... well ... there aren't too many groups NOT included in the list of the dead.

[NemesisTheWarlock]

I think the Thalmor are more like the Imperial Japanese myself, but then they're harking back to Ayleid culture, so they're maybe more like modern Iran. I suspect though that with the vast difference in religious and cultural backgrounds, making any real world comparisons is going to be tenuous at best, it is, after all, a religious conflict.

[luzburg]

Allegedly, parts of the background story is taken from the Irish Revolution ~1920.

 

No. Ireland never bowed to the British Empire.

Skyrim made the empire of Tiber Septim.