Dragonborn was... Lacking

[Relativelybest]

That's the whole point, Relativelybest. The only reason you face Miraak is because he grows convinced that the Last Dragonborn is powerful and his soul will help him escape Apocrypha.

 

First of all, that's wrong. The only reason you face him is because you specifically seek him out. It's not like he can force you to read the black book, after all. You have to go to him, even though you don't really have much motivation for going through all that trouble.

 

Second, he was putting his plan into motion way before he even knew you existed, so it's unlikely the Dragonborn was actually vital to his designs. There was like one line that kinda implied he wanted to eat your soul, somewhere at the end, but that's it. There's just not a lot to go on here.

 

 

He ruled over Solstheim with an iron fist and would do so again, but his main motivation has always been simply freedom - first from the Dragons, and then from Hermaeus Mora. He is, in a way, just a guy wanting to get home and do his stuff without strings attached. If he did escape, though, I think he'd become quite a problem. He seems to have extreme ego issues, and given his history and the amount of dead Dragons at his footsteps, it's probably understandable. :biggrin:

 

I'm not saying he wasn't potentially very dangerous. I'm saying that the threat he poses never comes through in the actual narrative of the story. The central conflict is only implied, and vaguely at that.

 

I mean, establishing a clear conflict between your protagonist and antagonist is a pretty basic writing skill. We know Mario wants to beat King Koopa because he kidnapped the princess. We know Megaman wants to stop Dr Wily because he's trying to take over the world with an army of killer robots. It doesn't have to be a complicated conflict, but there has to be one.

 

Dragonborn essentially just gives us a cocky dude in a shiny hat and informs us we should go beat him up just because he's there.

[sajuukkhar9000]

The plot wasnt that vauge.

 

-Mirrak was trappd in Herma-Mora's realm.

-He dicked around there for nearly 6 thousand years grewing increasingly tired of being Herma-Mora's lapdog.

-The last Dragonborn, you, appears, and Miraak sends his goons to find us.

-However, becuase hes been, you know, trapped, for 6 thousand years, he doesnt exactly know what we look like, which is why the cultists ask us if we are the Dragonborn, and why Miraak doesnt know who we are at first sight.

-Miraak needs to eat your soul becuase, as past lore states, and as Durnehviir shows, staying in a Daedric realm for long periods of time makes you unable to leave, or else you would die, becuase your osul has become warped and twisted, and connected to the daedric Lord's realm.

-We stop becuase hes power mad, willing to mentally enslave anyone, and everyone, around him, and wants to take over the world he belives is his.

Edited March 31, 2013 by sajuukkhar9000

[TailAbNormal]

-Miraak needs to eat your soul becuase, as past lore states, and as Durnehviir shows, staying in a Daedric realm for long periods of time makes you unable to leave, or else you would die, becuase your *osul* has become warped and twisted, and connected to the daedric Lord's realm.

 

 

Soul

[sisterof]

First of all, that's wrong. The only reason you face him is because you specifically seek him out. It's not like he can force you to read the black book, after all. You have to go to him, even though you don't really have much motivation for going through all that trouble.

Second, he was putting his plan into motion way before he even knew you existed, so it's unlikely the Dragonborn was actually vital to his designs. There was like one line that kinda implied he wanted to eat your soul, somewhere at the end, but that's it. There's just not a lot to go on here.

[...]

Dragonborn essentially just gives us a cocky dude in a shiny hat and informs us we should go beat him up just because he's there.

You specifically seek him out because his goons keep going after you relentlessly if you don't. That's motivation enough, and coming from his side. :P

His plan was indeed going on before he knew of the Last Dragonborn, my point is that he becomes your enemy in the moment he notices your soul is powerful and that of a Dovah, and so he doesn't simply let you go when you go to the Summit of Apocrypha.

 

Dragonborn gives us a Disney-style villain with little motivation other than the absolute joy of being evil, I quite agree with you on that (though I still find him awesome as far as Skyrim goes). But unfortunately TES is filled with antagonists like that, that's not just Dragonborn's issue. It's always about beating up some egocentric dude with a bad case of megalomania - probably the Civil War is the only one without a Big Bad.

(Btw, I find his clothes uber stylish.)

Edited March 31, 2013 by sisterof

[Amoryenar]

 

(Btw, I find his clothes uber stylish.)

 

Good, I'm not the only one. I find is clothes very stylish and well thought out. And the power behind them. O_o

[paulo02haha]

Dragonborn is a great DLC especially the Bloodskal Blade(The most awesome sword for me). Swingin stuff then spurting out shockwaves. xD

[Sianama]

In the end, even though I saw the people in the cages, even though he says, he's going to do to the rest of the world, what he does to Solstheim, even though he's the Greedy Man's man, even though Vahlok was surely a better ruler than Miraak (maybe Miraak is even the reason why the dragons suddenly turned nuts all that time ago?^^)... when he said: don't you know Hermaeus Mora is laughing at us? I thought: Yes, I know, but did you give us a different choice? And I sincerely hoped, that I freed his soul and took him out of Apocrypha with me, when I absorbed the soul, because I was suddenly sorry for him.

 

And apart from fighting Miraak himself... if you ask Mora about why he helps you, he says, that what Miraaks is doing would greatly increase Mora's influence on the world too, but he doesn't want him to escape. So you also stop Mora from gaining more influence. ... hopefully ^^

[Relativelybest]

The plot wasnt that vauge.

 

-Mirrak was trappd in Herma-Mora's realm.

-He dicked around there for nearly 6 thousand years grewing increasingly tired of being Herma-Mora's lapdog.

-The last Dragonborn, you, appears, and Miraak sends his goons to find us.

-However, becuase hes been, you know, trapped, for 6 thousand years, he doesnt exactly know what we look like, which is why the cultists ask us if we are the Dragonborn, and why Miraak doesnt know who we are at first sight.

-Miraak needs to eat your soul becuase, as past lore states, and as Durnehviir shows, staying in a Daedric realm for long periods of time makes you unable to leave, or else you would die, becuase your osul has become warped and twisted, and connected to the daedric Lord's realm.

If he needed to eat the Dragonborn's soul to leave, why the heck didn't he do that when they first met? You know, after he put you on your knees with a lightning bolt and had his Lovecraftian henchmen blast you unconscious with magic? Why did he send you back alive after the first meeting rather than kill you right there?

 

That's kind of a stupid move, seeing as he has no control over wether or not the DB decides to go back after him. How did he know you'd return for a final showdown? What if you decide to just wipe out his cult, cleanse all the stones, and then just go home?

-We stop becuase hes power mad, willing to mentally enslave anyone, and everyone, around him, and wants to take over the world he belives is his.

Other than brainwashing a few guys for the sake of rebuilding his temple, I don't recall any of that ever being stated. Even his backstory is less "He tried to take over the world!" and more "He rebelled against the dragons and was fired from his position as Dragon Priest in a very literal sense."

 

Heck, Mora has a lot more presence as a villain in this DLC than Miraak does.

His plan was indeed going on before he knew of the Last Dragonborn, my point is that he becomes your enemy in the moment he notices your soul is powerful and that of a Dovah, and so he doesn't simply let you go when you go to the Summit of Apocrypha.

He totally does, though. When you first meet him, he goes: "Oh, you're a Dragonborn too, huh? Small world." Then he sends you home, specifically so you can: "await my return with the rest of Solstheim."

 

That means that:

 

A) he doesn't really give a damn wether you live or die, or he would have killed you right there, and

B) he doesn't actually need your soul to leave Apocrypha.

 

The only reason you meet him again is because you go through the trouble of hunting down another Black Book so you can broker a deal with Hermaeus Mora so you can get the final Bend Will shout so you can go back to Apocrypha via the Black Book and face Miraak again.

 

And then he's all like: "Oh, you again? Alright then, let's fight."

 

I just get the impression he doesn't really give a damn about you.

 

Dragonborn gives us a Disney-style villain with little motivation other than the absolute joy of being evil, I quite agree with you on that

Er, no see, I'm arguing that he isn't like that at all. He literally doesn't do anything especially evil. He's just some guy with a weird accent who hangs out with Cthulhu and brainwashes medieval villagers to renovate his house. We're asked to kill him on the assumption that he's a megalomaniac Disney villain.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Relativelybest

[Dongsaeng]

 

 

(Btw, I find his clothes uber stylish.)

 

Good, I'm not the only one. I find is clothes very stylish and well thought out. And the power behind them. :blink:

 

Thirded. Best looking robes in the game-- in most games, actually-- by far. Although, don't you think the belt looks a little... uncomfortable? Especially for a male, if he's bending over or sitting down... Unless Dragon Priests were eunuchs? Does the lore mention anything about that?

 

 

For now I'll be here in my corner, pondering on things other people are too normal to ponder on. Heh.

[sisterof]

 

His plan was indeed going on before he knew of the Last Dragonborn, my point is that he becomes your enemy in the moment he notices your soul is powerful and that of a Dovah, and so he doesn't simply let you go when you go to the Summit of Apocrypha.

He totally does, though. When you first meet him, he goes: "Oh, you're a Dragonborn too, huh? Small world." Then he sends you home, specifically so you can: "await my return with the rest of Solstheim."

 

That means that:

 

A) he doesn't really give a damn wether you live or die, or he would have killed you right there, and

B) he doesn't actually need your soul to leave Apocrypha.

 

The only reason you meet him again is because you go through the trouble of hunting down another Black Book so you can broker a deal with Hermaeus Mora so you can get the final Bend Will shout so you can go back to Apocrypha via the Black Book and face Miraak again.

 

And then he's all like: "Oh, you again? Alright then, let's fight."

 

I just get the impression he doesn't really give a damn about you.

>

Dragonborn gives us a Disney-style villain with little motivation other than the absolute joy of being evil, I quite agree with you on that

Er, no see, I'm arguing that he isn't like that at all. He literally doesn't do anything especially evil. He's just some guy with a weird accent who hangs out with Cthulhu and brainwashes medieval villagers to renovate his house. We're asked to kill him on the assumption that he's a megalomaniac Disney villain.

 

When I said "he doesn't let you leave the Summit" I mean... the Summit, as in, Apocrypha in the final quest. He does let you go the first time you meet him, in a very Dovah style arrogance - like when Alduin gets bored and leaves Helgen without making sure the Dragonborn is dead. He indeed doesn't give a damn. But after you find him again, he becomes convinced you have grown powerful, and consequently into a threat and proceeds to value your soul as a way to empower himself. In that point, you can't simply leave as he's got an interest in your death.

 

And I get your point now about the assumption that he's a Disney villain being the reason we're pushed to defeat him. Indeed, come to think of it, he does some really minor things and we presume he wants to take over Solstheim upon his return, thus beginning the chase. Does he ever say anything megalomaniac, though? I can't remember. The only thing I can think of is the chant "And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be." Even if he makes no explicit threat to take over the world, he does go on a lot about how almighty he is and greater even than Alduin. So he comes across as a huge potential enemy. But only potential nonetheless, that's true.

 

Either way, what were we supposed to do as he brainwashed people into building some weird obelisks?

 

BTW, "Oh, you're a Dragonborn too, huh? Small world." I lol'd in the depths of my souless being. :biggrin:

 

 

Thirded. Best looking robes in the game-- in most games, actually-- by far. Although, don't you think the belt looks a little... uncomfortable? Especially for a male, if he's bending over or sitting down... Unless Dragon Priests were eunuchs? Does the lore mention anything about that?

 

 

For now I'll be here in my corner, pondering on things other people are too normal to ponder on. Heh.

*goes check Miraak's crotch*

 

I don't see the issue. Are you sure you looked right? I'm looking at some pictures from google images (including the big awesome promo one that has been my desktop's wallpaper on Windoze for eons). His fancy belt thing is somewhat above his bellybutton and goes up, not down, so he has all room in the world. The only issue I see is if he bends down in some serious Yogi fashion, it's gonna go right up his stomach.

 

The tattered bits make the robe so much cooler. It's a pity my Dragonborn is a bulky barbarian who ends up looking like some skinny mage in that outfit.

Edited April 10, 2013 by sisterof