LE Staves linked to spell skill levels

[DrNewcenstein]

 

I got skill increases with staves of fireball, and going through the CK, Fire spells do have Skill Usage Multipliers, and these are the only ones linked to staves (that I can tell). Most other staff spells show 0 Skill Mults when linked to staves.

So to make a mod that gives exp from staff usage all you'd need to do is change the skill multiplier for staves? Or is it more complicated than that? I know very little about the creation kit

 

If what I'm seeing in the CK is correct, then yes, you simply need to link hand-cast/skill-increasing spells to their appropriate Staves. Or rather, replace the more generic "xx Staff" spell with the hand-cast version. Same with scrolls, I'd imagine.

 

I'll poke around for a bit and see what I can see. I've also got an idea to make a new Staff type. We've got Ice Storm, which is a slow-moving freezing whirlwind, and is fairly weak, but not one for Fire or Shock that does the same thing. I'm thinking of putting Yol on a staff to serve as a Staff of Flame Burst - weak and slow-moving, like Ice Storm. But there's really nothing similar in the Shock catalogue. The weakest spell is Sparks, and there's no rolling-cloud type like Ice Storm and Yol, except for maybe the Lightning Cloak, but that's a different spell type altogether.

 

Maybe something that casts a harmless projectile (light ball) which uses the Lightning Cloak effect as its art? But then that would have to cast a weak form of Chain Lightning with the magnitude of Sparks, which I guess could be done.

 

This may go into Veritas but

 

Counter Offer: I don't think using a staffs spell should increase your own prowess because your using the staffs magic not your own (Just look at that random encounter with the Nord who found his grandfather's staff) , what I do think would be good however is wielding a staff will increase the magnitude of all spells from that school by 10%, wielding say the staff of Magnus should grant you the ability to absorb 10% of all incoming spells (Src: tx12001)

On the other hand, the Aspiring Mage says the staff is all used up, but when you get it from him, it's fully charged.

 

But I do see your point - the staff contains the power, not the mage. A staff can be used by anyone with the will to do so (let Lydia get her mitts on a Staff of Chain Lightning and watch a True Nord fall in love with magic :lol: ), but instead of getting any sort of Magic bonus, it should be treated as a projectile weapon (if it's a Destruction/Elemental staff), but then that really can't apply to Archery, which is basically all the Marksman skill tree covers.

 

Perhaps in a mod where new skills are added or Marksman were expanded to include projectile staves? In that event, a Staff of Chain Lightning could, through skill increases in use of said staff, evolve into a Staff of Thunderbolt. The wielder learns over time to control and focus the staff on one target, rather than simply blasting into a crowd, and as such, Chain Lightning becomes Thunderbolt - same power, more focus.

 

Similarly, a Staff of Ice Storm could eventually be developed into a Staff of Frostbite (a single burst becomes a focused blast), and then Ice Spike (the sustained blast is focused further into a compact, single shot) and then Icy Spear (multiple Spikes are focused into one Spear).

 

A Staff of Flames could evolve into a Staff of Fireball, then Incincerate.

 

Scrolls would, of course, remain as they were scribed, with no option to evolve as there's no repetitious use - the scroll is consumed upon use, so no deeper understanding is gained, even when using multiples of the same scroll.

[DrNewcenstein]

Ok, well, I did make a staff of Flame Burst using the "Yol" flame breath magic effect. It works pretty well. Roasts mudcrabs in a flash, but doesn't do too much damage to people, as would be expected. It does some damage, but doesn't turn them to BBQ in a flash. You'll have to fight for it. It appears to level with you - first test was a COC from the main menu at level 1 against a Thief. She got bored from chasing me around and only a little crispy around the edges.

 

Second test was a save-load of my level 50+ character, where Saber Cats took 2 hits, and Bandits took about 3 or 4. So, as a leveled low-powered staff, it seems to work.

 

Not sure if it's affecting skill level though. Silly me didn't check my Destruction progress. I did get a level up, but I also got a Sneak increase about the same time, and I was too busy watching the action to notice if I got a Destruction increase as well.

 

I looked at an existing Staff - the Staff of the Healing Hand - and its Magic Effect has a Skill Usage Mult of 1. I took one of those in the game and found someone to use it on, but again, I didn't check my Restoration progress first, so I don't know if it added anything. I didn't get a full level up, though.

 

More testing to follow. Hopefully I can come up with a Staff of Shock Burst to go along with the Flame Burst and Blizzard/Ice Storm while I'm at it.

[Lotus97]

@DrNewcenstein: Thanks for testing that out. My modding skills are non-existant atm, but I copied the information down for later.

@SnippyChris: Those are some interesting points, but on the other hand staves use up more charges if you don't have a high magic school. Also, learning by doing is an imperfect system. Skills don't always increase at the same rate so maybe from a realism standpoint having staves give experience doesn't make sense, what happens is people rarely use them. Rather than use soul gems to charge your staff, a person is more likely to use a magicka potion because that will help them grind destruction faster. Or just run around until their magicka regens.

[DrNewcenstein]

I got distracted for a few hours lol so development on the Shock Ball staff has slowed down considerably, but I'm looking into it again.

 

My own modding skills do not permit me to make a staff that levels up with the Mage using it, so if anyone wants to tackle that once I've got the other staff made, I'll gladly pass it your way.

 

On that subject, and going back to the idea that base spells can be focused into more concentrated forms, I'm thinking along these lines (similar to what I posted above, but more refined)

 

-There would be 3 base Staff types:

Staff Level 1 - Flames, Frostbite, Sparks. These are the weakest forms, and are basically a quickly-depleting spew. As you level up in Destruction (or if there could be a separate skillset or subtree specifically for Staves, then your progress in that tree would have to apply), you learn to concentrate the spewing stream into a burst, which then leads to the second level:

Staff Level 2 - Fire Burst (same as Yol - good for spider webs and skeever and mudcrab, but doesn't do much to people), Ice Storm (Freezing Whirlwind), and Storm Cloud (a weak Lightning Cloak-style projectile). As your Staff or Destruction skill increases, you learn to concentrate weaker single bursts into one larger burst, but it lacks the control and focus and thus affects crowds, and get the staff to Level 3.

-Staff Level 3 - Fireball, Ice Mortar, Chain Lightning (there's no 15-foot-radius Frost effect projectile, so I guess I'd have to make one - thinking about basing it off the first word of Ice Form since it can handle crowds, but making it the result of an exploding Ice Spike projectile to go along with Fireball's effect). As your skill increases, you learn to generate a larger yet more focused shot, and you get the Staves to level 4.

-Staff Level 4 - Incinerate, Freeze, Thunderbolt - Freeze would use the Icy Spear projectile, but upon being hit, the target is encased in ice as if hit with a 3-word Ice Form. As you further increase your skill, the staves evolve to level 5.

-Staff Level 5 - Fire Storm, Ice Age, and Storm Call. Fire Storm would just be the Spell/Scroll effect - huge fiery explosion centered on the caster. Ice Age would be the same thing, except it does Ice Form in all directions. Storm Call would do a version of the Shout of the same name, where anything on radar gets a bolt in the head, except it would work in interior cells. Maybe with an additional effect of a related Cloak for just a few seconds as a secondary effect that radiates from the player.

Though it would require a completely new animation, I'm thinking you would set these off by slamming the end of the staff into the ground, or by pointing it upwards rather than forwards. Maybe if the pose of the loading screen kid with the wooden sword could be adapted into an animation sequence. At least that's vanilla.

 

I'm thinking the staves could be limited to 5 levels, and those levels are independent of the player's overall level. On one hand, a level 30 player could have a staff that was basically level 50, but on the other hand, a level 50 player could end up with a staff that was basically level 30, depending on how much work they put into it. One could obtain those spells in hand-cast form more quickly, but for those who role-play as stick and poke (staff and dagger), it might add something to their experience.

 

As I said, my current modding level is not enough to get all that done, so if anyone wants to collaborate, I'll get the new spells/magic effects attached to the staves and then send it your way. Otherwise, I'll just make a bunch of different staves and drop them randomly into the world :D

[DrNewcenstein]

So the Staff of Calling Down The Thunder is being troublesome. I set up the Storm Call (Shout) script to not-really use the actual Storm Call (I wanted an indoor version, and obviously you can't do that), so I tweaked the options to get as close as I thought I could. Outdoors, I do get the swirling storm clouds overhead for a few seconds (duration of the spell), and the bolt coming out of the staff is a friggen MONSTER, but not quite what I was going for. I do want it to fire from above, like Storm Call, but in a smaller version, not just spit out a heavy-duty Thunderbolt. I'll poke it a bit more and see what I can get out of it (damage would be a nice start, though energizing whatever it hits is a nice touch).

 

Gonna move on to another staff for now and come back to this one later. Maybe I'll stumble across the right answer while working on those.

 

 

Still not seeing skill progress, either. Could be a hardwired gimp.

[DrNewcenstein]

Decided to tweak the Staff of Thunderburst a bit more. NOW it's a bit of a pwner, but then it's intended to be a high-level staff. Still doing a massive bolt projectile instead of setting up a mini-Storm Call, but it's a winner. First shot hits the target, followed by self-spawning shots that throw the carcass around. Aiming's a bit tricky, and it's not good for CQC, and it doesn't have great range. A Staff of Fireballs has better range. But, I was able to take out Krosis at level 1, and he only got one shot off. Backed him against the Wall and the residual strikes drilled him a new one. 3 shots from me, 9 from residuals.

 

Might leave it as-is for now and move on to another one. Also thinking of making the Level 2 Storm Cloud staff with 1st-word Cyclone Shout and a weak form of Chain Lightning, if I can get the Cyclone projectile to throw bolts. Gonna require Dragonborn at that point.

 

And STILL no Skill increase, even though I've painted half of Skyrim with this staff and Krosis' staff of Fireballs. Still working on that. Once I get it working for one staff, it'll work for all of them.

[Lotus97]

Well, the author of SPERG already did make it so staves give experience so is it possible just to see what the author of that mod did? As I mentioned before, it's a huge overhaul and not everyone wants to sign on to it. Especially when the author seems to have abandoned the mod.

 

SPERG also made it possible for you to learn spells from using staves (including daedric staves). I'm not sure how long it takes before you learn the spells.

 

I was messing around with the settings for the hotcast mod. It works reasonably well, but it's hard to figure out a balance so your skills don't increase too much. You also can't have it mapped to the left mouse button or you might accidentally attack someone in town.

[DrNewcenstein]

Trying to avoid lifting other people's work.

 

It looks like there are SkillIncrease Quests, though I'm not entirely sure how they're linked to Skill Usage. Probably an internal function if you pick certain options in a Magic Effect (School, Skill required, etc.)

I did get an error about being unable to find quest data when I was adding a Skill Increase Condition to a Magic Effect, so that's what led me to believe there's actually a Quest for skill usage increases. Just have to poke through hand-cast spells until I find the link.

[lofgren]

No, you have that wrong. There is no quest for skill usage increases. You're so wildly off the mark that it would take too long to explain it right now. I will come back tomorrow and add more detail but I wanted to save you some time chasing white rabbits.

[Himeki]

Trying to avoid lifting other people's work.

 

It looks like there are SkillIncrease Quests, though I'm not entirely sure how they're linked to Skill Usage. Probably an internal function if you pick certain options in a Magic Effect (School, Skill required, etc.)

I did get an error about being unable to find quest data when I was adding a Skill Increase Condition to a Magic Effect, so that's what led me to believe there's actually a Quest for skill usage increases. Just have to poke through hand-cast spells until I find the link.

You don't have to TAKE his work, you can poke around the code and use it to UNDERSTAND how he did it. Understanding how they did it by poking through lets you learn and improve. Possibly improving your own code in the process by finding better ways to do something.

 

So understand how someone did something, and then create your own. That's how I improve my coding (in other coding languages that is).