R&D Additional Options for SHIV Customization

[Amineri]

Continuing in my quest to get the lowly SHIV up to the point where it is as strategically/tactically interesting as the XCOM soldiers.

 

Step 1) Allow editting of SHIV name in the Barracks

 

 

Step 2) Post destroyed SHIVs to the Memorial Wall

 

 

Step 3) Allow small items that grant specific bonuses/abilities/penalties to the SHIV equipping them

 

Here is my initial brainstorming for an item list. The items are broken into two categories. First is pure "upgrade" items, which go into the pistol slot. Second are the "sidegrade" items, which go into the (to be added) small items slot. Only one of each would be equippable. These augment the SHIV in a similar way to Perks. While a soldier can have 7 bonuses from leveling, a SHIV can only have 2 -- however, the SHIV can be reconfigured after each mission, unlike the irrevocable decisions for the soldier. Each of the items would be available after researching, and would be built in Engineering and equipped in the Barracks / Loadout screen.

 

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Upgrades - can equip one of the following:

*) Grenade Launcher

Allows firing of Frag Grenades, Smoke Grenades, Alien Grenades, or Battlescanners

Combined with regular soldier items equipped in small items slots

Available after Foundry Pistol 1 project complete

*) Elerium Supercharger (+1 movement)

Applied through "ini file"

Available after Elerium Tech project complete

*) Alloy Ammo Feeds (Gives perk "Double Tap")

Set in XGAbility.ApplyCost

Available after Ammo Conservation Foundry project complete

*) Holo Targetter

Set in XGAbility_Targetted.RollForHit -- add to target's m_iTracerBeamCtr if shooter has this item equipped

Available when?

*) Energy Damper - (functions as Lightning Reflexes)

Applied in XGAbility_Targeted.RollForHit

Available after Stealth Satellites Foundry project complete

*) Ghost Module (1 or 2 ghost charges)

Applied in XGUnit.UpdateItemCharges

Available after Ghost Armor Tech project complete

*) Core Armoring (Gives perk "Resilience)

Available after ....

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Sidegrades/ammo - can equip one of the following:

*) Ablative Armor (adds +3 HP, -5 defense)

Applied through "ini file"

Available after Carapace Armor Tech project complete

*) Multishot (+10 aim, -2 damage, 80 radius)

Applied through "ini file"

Available after SHIV Suppression Foundry project complete

*) HEAT Ammo (-10 aim)

Applied in XGUnit.OnTakeDamage

Available after Alien Grenades Foundry project complete

*) Damage Booster (+3 damage, -10 aim)

Applied through "ini file"

Available after EMP Cannon Tech project complete

*) Reinforced Armor (+1 Damage Reduction, -1 movement)

Applied in XGUnit.OnTakeDamage

Available after Advanced Construction Foundry project complete

*) Smoke grenade (Ammo)

Set in XGUnit.UpdateItemCharges

Can be equipped if Grenade Launcher is equipped in "pistol" slot

*) Frag grenade (Ammo)

Set in XGUnit.UpdateItemCharges

Can be equipped if Grenade Launcher is equipped in "pistol" slot

*) Alien grenade (Ammo)

Set in XGUnit.UpdateItemCharges

Can be equipped if Grenade Launcher is equipped in "pistol" slot

*) Battlescanner (Ammo)

Set in XGUnit.UpdateItemCharges

Can be equipped if Grenade Launcher is equipped in "pistol" slot

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This generates:

3 SHIV chassis x

4 SHIV weapons (includes Sentry) x

6 SHIV upgrades (pistol slot exc grenade launcher) x

5 SHIV upgrades (small item slot exc ammo) +

4 Grenade Launcher/ammo combos

= (3 x 4) x (6 x 5 + 4 ) = 408 possible SHIV loadouts

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Additional item for soldiers I'm reserving:

1) Smoke Grenade -- adds +1 charge to Smoke Grenade ability

2) Battle Scanner -- adds +1 charge to Battlescanner ability

3) Grapple -- grants grapple ability

4) Flashbang Grenade -- ??

5) Rocket -- adds +1 charge to Fire Rocket ability

6) Ceramic Plates -- add +1 HP (unlimited number available at beginning of game)

7) Basic First Aid Kit -- allows healing and stabilizing, but not poison immunity (unlimited number available at beginning of game)

8) Personal Effects -- adds +10 Will

The next set of items would be a new class of weapons -- ballistic weapons, but improved with alien alloys and/or elerium-based charges. They could be configured to be sidegrades, go in between regular ballistics and lasers, or something else entirely. Images/models would be based on existing ballistic weapons.

9) Alloy Assault Rifle

10) Alloy Shotgun

11) Alloy LMG

12) Alloy Sniper Rifle

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This is an initial concept list, but I think each of these could be implemented. Any thoughts / concerns / feedback / unbalancing combinations that people see?

Edited April 27, 2013 by Amineri

[johnnylump]

These are great if you can get them implemented. You know, you could use the "m_itracerbeams" variable we played with to see if it simulates Holo-Targeting.

[Amineri]

I've gone through the XGItemTree.BuildItems, and I realized that potentially every item built is (or can be) overwritten by the values set in the DGC.ini, at least for cost, alloys, elerium, time, and engineers. Any Tech/Item/Foundry requirements, and the image ID have to be set in BuildItems.

 

This allows one to set those five parameters to 0x26 = 1 in the BuildItem call, saving a ton of space. Items such as AssaultRifle and Kevlar should be able to have config entries added to the DGC.ini to set the values (engineers and time to -1 to make them non-buildable, in particular).

 

Doing this will allows space for up to 32 new BuildItem() calls -- 32 new items that can be created. Some items that may be of interest may not need to be created -- the SmokeGrenade ((BuildItem(86, -1, -1, -1, 56); // Smoke Grenade)) is already being built, just isn't buildable in Engineering.

 

There is space to build 32 new items, but what about the rest? The enum EItemType currently goes up to 195. Of those enums, 29 are category labels, leaving 166 non-category enums. There are currently 101 items created in the BuildItems() call, leaving up to 65 available EItemType IDs available.

 

However, of the 65 available EItemIDs in the strategy game, 24 are items that are built for the tactical game, but not available at all on the strategy side. These are primarily the alien weapons (e.g. eItem_SectopodCannon, eItem_Plague (Thin Man poison attack)). However, the Smoke Grenade, Psi Grenade, and SHIV Sentry weapon are built for the tactical game, but not available normally in the strategy side.

 

A couple of other interesting items:

1)eItem_Grapple is created and put in the inventory of any soldier with the Skeleton or Ghost armors. This could be made into a buildable item on the strategy side which would allow any armor-type to use Grapple if the soldier is equipped with the item.

2) eItem_PsiAmp is created and put in the inventory of any soldier with Psi Abilities or wearing Psi armor, and is also given to Sectoids, Sectoid Commanders, Ethereals and the Uber Ethereal. Making this a buildable item and equipping it to a non-Psi soldier might have interesting effects ....

 

Having weeded through these items, this leaves 41 eItemType enums that are (1) not category labels (2) not created in the strategy game (3) not defined in the tactical game. Hidden in the spoiler is the entire list:

 

 

 

eItem_FlameThrower,

eItem_PlaceholderWeapon0,

eItem_PlaceholderWeapon1,

eItem_PlaceholderWeapon2,

eItem_PlaceholderWeapon3,

eItem_PlaceholderWeapon4,

eItem_PlaceholderWeapon5,

eItem_PlaceholderWeapon6,

eItem_PlaceholderWeapon7,

eItem_SectopodArm,

eItem_DLCArmor0,

eItem_DLCArmor1,

eItem_DLCArmor2,

eItem_DLCArmor3,

eItem_DLCArmor4,

eItem_DLCArmor5,

eItem_DLCArmor6,

eItem_DLCArmor7,

eItem_PlaceholderArmor0,

eItem_PlaceholderArmor1,

eItem_FlashBang,

eItem_PlaceholderGrenade0,

eItem_PlaceholderGrenade1,

eItem_SectoidGrenade,

eItem_FloaterGrenade,

eItem_MutonGrenade,

eItem_CyberdiscGrenade,

eItem_ThinManGrenade,

eItem_PlaceholderVehicle0,

eItem_PlaceholderVehicle1,

eItem_PlaceholderShivUpgrade0,

eItem_PlaceholderShivUpgrade1,

eItem_PlaceholderIntWeapon0,

eItem_PlaceholderIntWeapon1,

eItem_PlaceholderIntConsumable0,

eItem_PlaceholderIntConsumable1,

eItem_CivilianCorpse,

eItem_TankCorpse,

eItem_SoldierCorpse,

eItem_ZombieCorpse,

eItem_NullPrereq,

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There is space to create 32 new items in the strategy game, and at least 41 available enumerated values to go along with them (though some might cause headaches with later DLCs or expansions).

I have 11 items (prior post), plus the Sentry gun being added, plus JLs suggestion for a holotargetter module makes 13 -- leaves a lot of space.

Any other thoughts? I'm definitely broadening the scope here -- items for soldiers are on the table, too!

[anUser]

I've gone through the XGItemTree.BuildItems, and I realized that potentially every item built is (or can be) overwritten by the values set in the DGC.ini, at least for cost, alloys, elerium, time, and engineers. Any Tech/Item/Foundry requirements, and the image ID have to be set in BuildItems.

good to know for sure

 

As for items, I would definively leave Smoke grenades, Battle Scanner and Grapple as buildable items (I'm already using them, gotta test grapple once I fix a most prioritary edit), also I'm pondering the possibility of using Flasbang grenades by cannibalizing the Shredder rocket ability, so I'd ask those items to be left as they are but buildable.

 

I was thinking as well how to balance spendable rockets, and I came to think that maybe a cool solution is to leave the rocket launcher in it's heavy class' special slot, and make the it require to equip another item in the small item slot that would represent the projectile itself, which would be spendable, but not the launcher, this way soldiers can equip more rockets and just one launcher. Moreover this opens the possibility of making different types of projectiles (not much but something can be done). The same principle could be used for shiv's special weapons (that could require consumible items), given there's room for 30+ new items I'd count a few for rockets and so.

 

 

About SHIVs: I really think they should have a specific role in the squad, something that clearly differentiates them from soldiers and makes them more suited for certain occasions. In that sense, I'd try to give SHIVs unique abilities, so they aren't a better/worse replacement for soldiers but they're rather something different. I don't know what those things are used for in real military conflicts, but in the context of this game, imo their porpouse should be either scouting or carrying special weapons the soldiers can't carry. I like it as well carrying an arc thrower... that's what machines are for, when it's too dangerous for the soldier to approach they send those things, to defuse a bomb, to deal with toxic agents, etc. Btw, arc thrower suppression looks so cool, it could be turnt into a weapon as well.

 

I'll throw in a few rough ideas for equipment, consider them as you please:

- Grenade launcher module: not sure if it'd need a new grenade item with greater range or just giving the fragGrenade ability to some weapon (since SHIVs don't have the frag grenade ability per se) it may work. The way I see this would be the secondary weapon (pistol slot) and it would require equipping a grenade in the small item slot (1 grenade that could become 2 charges or more?) If this could be make for soldiers as well that'd be great too.

- Regardless the range issue, the SHIV could need this grenade launcher to throw any launchable item such as smoke grenade and battlescanner, thus dealing with otherwise would be several abilities.

- A "high alert" moule. A special ability that the SHIV can activate if it hasn't moved in that turn and that grants the opportunist and sentinel bonuses (two reaction shots without aim penalty) ¿maybe with cooldown?. It would better fit a slow moving unit or a fragile one, not to abuse of it. Honestly I don't know if this can be done, it's just a thought.

- Guided shot: by means of holo-targeting or some sort of target signaling (unexistant nowadays) make the shiv able to shot to targets out of range, or out of sight. This module could grant an ability with squadsight and free aiming, but then I guess that would work only for that weapon and not the main one.

- Anti-explosives protection, a la tank's reactive armour. I'm pondering now to make explosive damage bypass damage reduction, ¿unless this is equipped? Not sure if it's worth though considering aliens use few grenades.

- Some sort of ability that needs a pre-charge. In general it'd be cool to have abilities that need to "change the state or mode" before, like first you activate the ability "load rockets" and next turn you can use the "fire rocket" ability or the "unload rockets" but cannot move. The same for that "hi-alert" module I said before, etc. I know this is a bit complex but maybe some of this can be done with those action applyCost functions and so.

[Amineri]

Okay, so I'm seeing a request for:

1) Smoke Grenade

2) Battle Scanner

3) Grapple

4) Flashbang Grenade

5) Rocket

 

as created/buildable(?)/equipable soldier items.

 

Smoke Grenade is already created in the StrategyGame via a BuildItem() call. If you add a new line in the DGC.ini, you should be able to make them buildable (although the upk will have to be editted to adjust any Tech/FTech/Item req's).

 

Grapple is currently being set by checking an armor property, and the putting the grapple item directly into the soldier's Loadout. Creating the grapple item, and putting it inventory should get it most of the way toward working. However, it appears to have to be loaded into a particular Loadout slot via the line:

Loadout.Items[4] = class'XGWeapon_Grapple';

It is the only item that goes into Loadout slot 4. Modifying the check to place it in slot 4, if it is already equipped, and then removing EAP_Grapple from armor would make the grapple item be the route to having the grapple ability in game, I think.

 

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Thank you for the suggestions regarding new abilities. I'm going to keep the first post updated with all of the suggestions, then go through and try and come up with some sort of more cohesive set that is congruent with a "tank" role.

 

I have been considering what a SHIVs role would be, compared to other classes. Since they aren't traded out 4 soldiers per 1 tank (as in X-COM OG), it's a little trickier to balance, I think.

 

The primary role I have been envisioning for SHIVs is:

1) Provides additional capability in open space (i.e. without cover)

2) Relatively easy for aliens to hit, but relatively difficult to kill because of damage reduction

3) Low aim, so vulnerable to aliens in cover, because of inability to hit

4) High damage, so good at killing aliens with low defense and not in cover

 

Combined with this, I am proposing re-working how the alien "tanks" (Cyberdisks and Sectopods) function. Rather than having a moderate defense, I am considering eliminating their defense entirely, but giving them a fairly high damage reduction (5 or 6 for Sectopods). This makes Sectopods fulfill the same role -- easy to hit, but difficult to kill.

 

With 6 DR, Support, Assault, and Sniper can only do up to 3 damage per non-crit hit (out of 30+ hit points), making them very ineffective against enemy tanks. Their higher aim does not give them an advantage in hitting, since defense is low. The Heavy and the SHIV are the primary dealers of damage to enemy tanks, via higher damage (and/or HEAT ammo) to get past the high DR.

 

This would create the following roles for the different classes + SHIVs:

1) Sniper -- excels at destroying alien infantry in open spaces -- poor at close-in spaces, and against alien tanks

2) Assault -- excels at destroying alien infantry in close-in spaces -- poor in open spaces, and against alien tanks

3) Heavy -- excels at destroying alien tanks, clearing cover, surviving in cover -- poorer against enemies in 'hard' cover (but can use rockets for this)

4) SHIV -- excels at destroying alien tanks, surviving in open spaces -- poor against aliens in cover due to low aim

5) Support -- providing support via medikits, repairing SHIVs, smoke grenades, defensive covering fire

 

In terms of SHIV survivability -- they are relatively easy to hit, so will tend to draw fire (instead of it being directed toward your soldiers). With their DR, they would tend to have a consistent stream of damage against them, as opposed to the much-more-variable damage receive by soldiers. This means SHIVs will come back in need of repair more frequently than soldiers, but will be destroyed/killed less frequently. Because of this, when cover is available, soldiers will likely be a better option, but in open spaces (or for drawing reaction fire) a SHIV would be superior.

 

This is my current musing upon the role of SHIVs. Feedback is always welcome :)

[Amineri]

I'll throw in a few rough ideas for equipment, consider them as you please:

- Grenade launcher module: not sure if it'd need a new grenade item with greater range or just giving the fragGrenade ability to some weapon (since SHIVs don't have the frag grenade ability per se) it may work. The way I see this would be the secondary weapon (pistol slot) and it would require equipping a grenade in the small item slot (1 grenade that could become 2 charges or more?) If this could be make for soldiers as well that'd be great too.

- Regardless the range issue, the SHIV could need this grenade launcher to throw any launchable item such as smoke grenade and battlescanner, thus dealing with otherwise would be several abilities.

- A "high alert" moule. A special ability that the SHIV can activate if it hasn't moved in that turn and that grants the opportunist and sentinel bonuses (two reaction shots without aim penalty) ¿maybe with cooldown?. It would better fit a slow moving unit or a fragile one, not to abuse of it. Honestly I don't know if this can be done, it's just a thought.

- Guided shot: by means of holo-targeting or some sort of target signaling (unexistant nowadays) make the shiv able to shot to targets out of range, or out of sight. This module could grant an ability with squadsight and free aiming, but then I guess that would work only for that weapon and not the main one.

- Anti-explosives protection, a la tank's reactive armour. I'm pondering now to make explosive damage bypass damage reduction, ¿unless this is equipped? Not sure if it's worth though considering aliens use few grenades.

- Some sort of ability that needs a pre-charge. In general it'd be cool to have abilities that need to "change the state or mode" before, like first you activate the ability "load rockets" and next turn you can use the "fire rocket" ability or the "unload rockets" but cannot move. The same for that "hi-alert" module I said before, etc. I know this is a bit complex but maybe some of this can be done with those action applyCost functions and so.

 

Definitely incorporating the Grenade Launcher idea, as it combines very nicely with using the regular soldier "throwable objects".

 

One issue I've had is actually assigning active abilities. I'd thought about something like "Run and Gun", or making SHIV Suppression be based on an equipped module rather than the FTech being completed, but I haven't been able to figure it out yet. :(

[dubiousintent]

One issue I've had is actually assigning active abilities. I'd thought about something like "Run and Gun", or making SHIV Suppression be based on an equipped module rather than the FTech being completed, but I haven't been able to figure it out yet. :(

If you get it worked out, consider the optional ability to give the SHIV the 'Disabling Shot' and 'Flush' abilities. The SHIV is a hybrid between the 'tank' (anti-armor, hardened defense buster, 'flush out infantry from cover to break up stalemates' roles) and the low profile, high-risk surveillance primary role of UPVs today. The concept of a multi-rocket equipped SHIV that has to take a 'cool-down' period or action to 'reload', adds to the feasability of having a Disabling Shot capability in a secondary weapon system versus alien equivalents to permit the reload operation to complete, or for a Heavy to get their shot off. It also makes the Disabling Shot more desireable for the Sniper, as 'anti-(light)armor' was the original role of the 50 cal rifle (in WWI). It becomes more cost effective to have a Sniper able to 'disable' a Sectopod for a turn while the SHIV reloads a HEAT round. And switching between one type of loaded rocket (i.e. HE) and another (HEAT) should take a turn. Unless you want to provide a 'rotating tube' mechanism with alternate loads action as a Foundry upgrade. (Now which is up in the tube: HE or HEAT? Do I need to switch for this target? Did I use all of my HEAT and only have HE left? An new challenge, but probably not possible to implement.)

 

-Dubious-

Edited April 9, 2013 by dubiousintent

[anUser]

Doesn't it work if you give a weapon the eWP_ShotSupress ability? I recall it making suppression available but I don't remember for sure. Maybe another option could be calling GivePerk / RemovePerk, at beginning and at the end of the mission. I looked for that as well but the code that set which abilities are available at each moment seems to be hard-coded. I found that some abilities show up and some don't based on how they're defined in BuildAbilities, but it's just that, wether they should be displayed regardless the unit having the ability or having some charge left or not, but I couldn't find where does it says if an ability requires a perk to be used (like rapid fire) or it doesn't (like standard shot or overwatch). Based on what I've seen so far it could perfectly be if the game granted those "perks" (standard shot, overwatch, etc) on unit creation.

 

ps: haven't tested it, but just looking at dgc.ini I see heavy plasma doesn't have shot supress while aliens' heavy plasma does.

[Amineri]

I've started the work on adding in new items to the game. I've updated the initial post with a set of items.

 

My list so far has:

3 Abilities turned into equippable items : Grapple, Smoke Grenade, and Battlescanner

 

1 new Interceptor weapon : Stingray Missiles

 

1 new SHIV weapon : Sentry Gun

 

12 brand-new SHIV equipment modules

 

 

12 brand-new soldier items

 

-----------------------------

 

This yields 29 new items in total.

[anUser]

What a monster you've created, this SHIVS are brutal now! I almost feel like playing with them :P

 

Now seriously, I like a lot most of the ideas, also those for new soldiers' items and set of weapons, it can be a nice first upgrade to smooth the progression towards laser and/or plasma weaponry.

 

Btw, what's the problem with the holo-targetter that you've got to mess with m_iTracerBeamCtr, why not just granting the holo-target perk? And making them able to equip regular (upgradeable) scope item?

 

Just one thing I'm not entirely convinced of: lightning reflexes.... it feels a bit lame even with assault soldiers... run'n gun with dash move bonus is ok, at least for me. I can understand a soldier's got the ability to lure enemies into shooting him/her, but a machine? I understand it's meant to be another thing, but I'd like it more as some sort of energy damper if it were an ability that had to be activated. Ideally an ability that'd cost 1 move and no action, that granted lightning reflexes 'til the end of turn, or some more powerful version using the psi telekinetik field, if there's a way to tweak it.

 

From a technical point of view, I'd like to ask you how've you solved the perk removal issue, if on unequipping item or all of them at once at mission ending. It seems to me that reseting all perks to 0 at mission end (or in UpdateItemCharges, just before giving the perks for currently equipped item) should be safe enough for SHIVs, and could be still compatible with spendable items, right? And those "Can be equipped if Grenade Launcher is equipped in 'pistol' slot" are coded somehow? I don't think it's necessary, and it seems pretty complex to edit, just asking in case you'd found an easy way to deal with this

 

I'll throw in a few suggestions, I haven't meditated them much, so consider them as it pleases you:

- Following this line of mutually-required items, there could be some item granting the "Launch" ability to flying shivs (floaters' ability to fly to any place of the map, costs the entire turn). It would need the flying armor, of course.

- Rocket launcher: dunno if you're keeping this out for balance or due to technical difficulties with the model and animations... if it'd require a rocket item plus the rocket launcher weapon it'd seem fair to me.

- Arc Thrower please!! I'd let them have it in the main weapon slot if that were necessary. Well, not really, pistol slot is ok, but it would be really nice if they could equip it.

- Some side small weapon? I was thinking that in order to make shivs could have really powerful weapons but still keep them balanced, the big big weapon (such as rocket or cluster bomb launcher) could go in the main weapon slot, and let them shoot with the pistol weapon... but I don't know if shivs are able to switch weapons like soldiers or what.