Creation Kit Is Not Generating Precombines for the Correct Cell

[moonman3km69]

https://youtu.be/qCPCjpdb1MA

 

I am currently in thecastleExt cell trying to rebuild precombines after deleting that god awful shack built in the center of the radio tower, however trying to rebuild the geometry for the current cell actually selects the next cell and rebuilds that instead. If I try to rebuild geometry and precombined geometry for the loaded area, this happens:

 

https://youtu.be/ZOiwdK5Ll6o

 

Any help would be appreciated.

Edited March 10, 2021 by moonman3km69

[PJMail]

It is difficult to actually see what you are doing there but visibility is based on a 3x3 block so your cell is unlikely to be centre cell (so another cell gets updated with visibility info for your cell).

Precombines are however cell based, and the Castle covers at least 2 cells so you may need to generate precombines for more than just that centre cell.

There are some good youtube guides on this (redrockettv etc).

These will step you through the precombine generation AND visibiity generation process. The dissappearing guard rails on the walls looks like the pre-combines don't agree with the visibility information.

[moonman3km69]

It is difficult to actually see what you are doing there but visibility is based on a 3x3 block so your cell is unlikely to be centre cell (so another cell gets updated with visibility info for your cell).

Precombines are however cell based, and the Castle covers at least 2 cells so you may need to generate precombines for more than just that centre cell.

There are some good youtube guides on this (redrockettv etc).

These will step you through the precombine generation AND visibiity generation process. The dissappearing guard rails on the walls looks like the pre-combines don't agree with the visibility information.

 

When I try to generate precombined meshes for the current loaded cell, I see in the progress bar it is actually generating meshes for a different cell (in this case thecastlext02)'

 

I watched all those videos and I did exactly the way it was shown. I can't generate precombined meshes because the CK won't generate the meshes for the proper cell.

 

Basically, I am trying to optimize Jenncave's work for the Clean and Simple Settlement Startup series. Her response to why she didn't generate precombines was as follows:

 

"I have not rebuilt previs and precombines due to the fact that the game engine disables that function in cells that have items that belong to a precombine that is touched in some way....ie moved, disabled etc. Also, it is impossible for me to determine the particular load order a user has so previs/precombines need to be built specifically for the load order."

 

How come the Boston FPS fix and many other settlement mods come with rebuilt precombines and they have no issues? I think this author doesn't know what they are talking about. Precombines overide any objects placed in affected cells for any other mods. In other words, if loaded after mods that affect precombined meshes, generating new precombined meshes and loading them after will overide the broken ones. That's exactly how BostonFpsfix describes it. Not uploading your file with precombined meshes is about as stupid as not updating navmesh after rebuilding the whole settlement.

Edited March 13, 2021 by moonman3km69

[niston]

Jenncave knows exactly what she's talking about.

You'll find out.

[moonman3km69]

 

It is difficult to actually see what you are doing there but visibility is based on a 3x3 block so your cell is unlikely to be centre cell (so another cell gets updated with visibility info for your cell).

Precombines are however cell based, and the Castle covers at least 2 cells so you may need to generate precombines for more than just that centre cell.

There are some good youtube guides on this (redrockettv etc).

These will step you through the precombine generation AND visibiity generation process. The dissappearing guard rails on the walls looks like the pre-combines don't agree with the visibility information.

 

When I try to generate precombined meshes for the current loaded cell, I see in the progress bar it is actually generating meshes for a different cell (in this case thecastlext02)'

 

I watched all those videos and I did exactly the way it was shown. I can't generate precombined meshes because the CK won't generate the meshes for the proper cell.

 

Basically, I am trying to optimize Jenncave's work for the Clean and Simple Settlement Startup series. Her response to why she didn't generate precombines was as follows:

 

"I have not rebuilt previs and precombines due to the fact that the game engine disables that function in cells that have items that belong to a precombine that is touched in some way....ie moved, disabled etc. Also, it is impossible for me to determine the particular load order a user has so previs/precombines need to be built specifically for the load order."

 

How come the Boston FPS fix and many other settlement mods come with rebuilt precombines and they have no issues? I think this author doesn't know what they are talking about. Precombines overide any objects placed in affected cells for any other mods. In other words, if loaded after mods that affect precombined meshes, generating new precombined meshes and loading them after will overide the broken ones. That's exactly how BostonFpsfix describes it. Not uploading your file with precombined meshes is about as stupid as not updating navmesh after rebuilding the whole settlement.

 

I found 3 settlement mods plus Boston FPS fix which all build precombines without factoring in the user's mod list and I haven't had any issues with any of them. I went in tcl mode and panned around all of the areas in the settlements I tested and found no problems with invisible walls, etc. However I did find problems with Jenn's settlements including the main building on spectacle island not loading the rebuilt model from a distance, and these missing walls and bridge in the CK in that settlement as well. In other words, because of these errors and her lack of understanding to how a load order works on Bethesda games, I can't even run any of her settlement files smoothly. What is the point of cleaning up settlements if you are breaking the engine's optimization system and refusing to rebuild it, causing performance worse than before? And then argue with other users and saying its not possible to do what another mod which has millions of downloads has already done?

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/5sOiAoq

Edited March 13, 2021 by moonman3km69

[PJMail]

I had a close look at your first video and you are generating "visibility" for cell "TheCastleExt". Visibility is NOT precombines (which are nif files) it is the occlusion information (uvd), which as I said is in a 3x3 of cells. The occlusion information for cell "TheCastleExt" (E189) is actually in the centre cell of the 9 - E188 (TheCastleExt02) - so that is what it was working on. All good.

Your next step is to build the precombines ("generate precombined visibility for current cell") which will just do it for "TheCastleExt". You need both steps, the first generates the uvd files (in your case 0000E188.uvd), and the second generates the precombines (a bunch of files something like 0000E189_nnnnnnnnn.nif).

 

(I am guessing the steps generate the specific files - I have only looked at the final result - the reality is probaby both steps are instrumental in generating all those files).

 

Note that the Castle is quite big so you may have issues just doing the 'current cell'. My understanding fails at that point though...

 

I am not going to get into an argument concerning whether you should be doing this, I am only commenting on how you do it (and the difference between the "genereate visibility" and 'Generate precombine visibity" options - of which you need to do both)

Edited March 13, 2021 by PJMail

[moonman3km69]

 

 

It is difficult to actually see what you are doing there but visibility is based on a 3x3 block so your cell is unlikely to be centre cell (so another cell gets updated with visibility info for your cell).

Precombines are however cell based, and the Castle covers at least 2 cells so you may need to generate precombines for more than just that centre cell.

There are some good youtube guides on this (redrockettv etc).

These will step you through the precombine generation AND visibiity generation process. The dissappearing guard rails on the walls looks like the pre-combines don't agree with the visibility information.

 

When I try to generate precombined meshes for the current loaded cell, I see in the progress bar it is actually generating meshes for a different cell (in this case thecastlext02)'

 

I watched all those videos and I did exactly the way it was shown. I can't generate precombined meshes because the CK won't generate the meshes for the proper cell.

 

Basically, I am trying to optimize Jenncave's work for the Clean and Simple Settlement Startup series. Her response to why she didn't generate precombines was as follows:

 

"I have not rebuilt previs and precombines due to the fact that the game engine disables that function in cells that have items that belong to a precombine that is touched in some way....ie moved, disabled etc. Also, it is impossible for me to determine the particular load order a user has so previs/precombines need to be built specifically for the load order."

 

How come the Boston FPS fix and many other settlement mods come with rebuilt precombines and they have no issues? I think this author doesn't know what they are talking about. Precombines overide any objects placed in affected cells for any other mods. In other words, if loaded after mods that affect precombined meshes, generating new precombined meshes and loading them after will overide the broken ones. That's exactly how BostonFpsfix describes it. Not uploading your file with precombined meshes is about as stupid as not updating navmesh after rebuilding the whole settlement.

 

I found 3 settlement mods plus Boston FPS fix which all build precombines without factoring in the user's mod list and I haven't had any issues with any of them. I went in tcl mode and panned around all of the areas in the settlements I tested and found no problems with invisible walls, etc. However I did find problems with Jenn's settlements including the main building on spectacle island not loading the rebuilt model from a distance, and these missing walls and bridge in the CK in that settlement as well. In other words, because of these errors and her lack of understanding to how a load order works on Bethesda games, I can't even run any of her settlement files smoothly. What is the point of cleaning up settlements if you are breaking the engine's optimization system and refusing to rebuild it, causing performance worse than before? And then argue with other users and saying its not possible to do what another mod which has millions of downloads has already done?

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/5sOiAoq

 

 

 

The purpose of that video was to show you the CK was not generating visibility properly (I had the two mixed up) but I already generated precombined meshes before I made that video and it worked fine which was why I didn't record that part. The problem is that when I attempt to generate vis and precombined vis for the cell that I edited, I see in the status bar that it is actually generating the data for the next cell. Is that supposed to happen? What is the correct process here? Am I supposed to generate precombined meshes for individual cell, and then vis and precombined vis for the loaded area?

[damanding]

 

How come the Boston FPS fix and many other settlement mods come with rebuilt precombines and they have no issues? I think this author doesn't know what they are talking about. Precombines overide any objects placed in affected cells for any other mods. In other words, if loaded after mods that affect precombined meshes, generating new precombined meshes and loading them after will overide the broken ones. That's exactly how BostonFpsfix describes it. Not uploading your file with precombined meshes is about as stupid as not updating navmesh after rebuilding the whole settlement.

 

Mods which touch the same 3x3 cell area (a total of 9 cells) with rebuilt precombines hard conflict with one another. You can sometimes resolve issues with changing load order, however the only true way to deal with the conflicts is to rebuild precombines/previs for both mods together. Boston FPS fix "works" because it goes last in load order and thus overwrites ALL other mods which rebuild precombines. If Jenn rebuilds them for each settlement individually then only the last one loaded for the ones that touch the same 3x3 cell area would actually work correctly. She would need to have ALL of her settlements in one big rebuilt precombines/previs package for them to not conflict with one another. Not only would that file be huge (a couple gig at least) and take many hours to generate (if not days), but it would also conflict with Boston FPS. Since Jenn doesn't know which settlements users will/will not want to use, whether users will be using the Boston FPS Fix mod, or what other mods they'll be using with rebuilt precombines, she has no way of creating patches for all these possibilities. Plus Nexus probably wouldn't care for her to publish 50 gig worth of patches that still wouldn't cover all the possible combinations users might want.

 

These are hard conflicts. It's one mod out of two or more touching a wide area with rebuilt precombines that wins. You can of course run multiple together but only the last one loaded works right and you'll always have visual bugs and reduced performance from the mod loaded first whose rebuilt precombines aren't being used and is thus essentially still having broken precombines. So your load order and other mods you're using DO actually matter because the individual user will need to create their own merged precombine/previs.

 

I wrote a guide to understanding precombines/previs for users that may help.

[moonman3km69]

 

 

How come the Boston FPS fix and many other settlement mods come with rebuilt precombines and they have no issues? I think this author doesn't know what they are talking about. Precombines overide any objects placed in affected cells for any other mods. In other words, if loaded after mods that affect precombined meshes, generating new precombined meshes and loading them after will overide the broken ones. That's exactly how BostonFpsfix describes it. Not uploading your file with precombined meshes is about as stupid as not updating navmesh after rebuilding the whole settlement.

 

Mods which touch the same 3x3 cell area (a total of 9 cells) with rebuilt precombines hard conflict with one another. You can sometimes resolve issues with changing load order, however the only true way to deal with the conflicts is to rebuild precombines/previs for both mods together. Boston FPS fix "works" because it goes last in load order and thus overwrites ALL other mods which rebuild precombines. If Jenn rebuilds them for each settlement individually then only the last one loaded for the ones that touch the same 3x3 cell area would actually work correctly. She would need to have ALL of her settlements in one big rebuilt precombines/previs package for them to not conflict with one another. Not only would that file be huge (a couple gig at least) and take many hours to generate (if not days), but it would also conflict with Boston FPS. Since Jenn doesn't know which settlements users will/will not want to use, whether users will be using the Boston FPS Fix mod, or what other mods they'll be using with rebuilt precombines, she has no way of creating patches for all these possibilities. Plus Nexus probably wouldn't care for her to publish 50 gig worth of patches that still wouldn't cover all the possible combinations users might want.

 

These are hard conflicts. It's one mod out of two or more touching a wide area with rebuilt precombines that wins. You can of course run multiple together but only the last one loaded works right and you'll always have visual bugs and reduced performance from the mod loaded first whose rebuilt precombines aren't being used and is thus essentially still having broken precombines. So your load order and other mods you're using DO actually matter because the individual user will need to create their own merged precombine/previs.

 

I wrote a guide to understanding precombines/previs for users that may help.

 

 

So basically its not possible to use all of her settlement mods at once since they are in the same area and conflict with each other. Honestly it sounds like in that case the whole series is pretty pointless imo. I wanted a solution to increase fps by removing junk and unwanted clutter, that didn't break precombines since I can't stand choppy fps and stutter (its one of the reasons I play on PC and not console). But if your saying I would basically need to rebuild precombines for entire sections of the map thats not worth it. I'll just stick to junk scattered everywhere I guess until someone comes up with a better solution.

Edited March 14, 2021 by moonman3km69

[jenncave]

so..... I was right? I could have helped you with all that, if you had approached with a willingness to learn and a genuine request for help instead of bashing me and saying that I don't know what I am talking about. Actually, I was gonna link Damanding's forum topic for you but when I did a search for that link, the first thing that came up was your rant against me in which Niston (who I don't really know) replied to you. If you really want to know, you need to regenerate precombines in each affected cell and then regenerate precombine visibility for loaded area. There is a handy video by RRTV on YouTube that will assist you. But since you decided to go all out insult, I have blocked you from my mods and you will need to use your existing files of mine sans any new content or bug fixes. Apologies are a nice thing....