An idea for Fallout 4 - Lone Wanderer vs Courier

[trob1000]

My main qualm with New Vegas was that it was a game with potential that didn't live up to it. New Vegas basically took place around the Strip with occasional side trips to areas outside of it. It was also incredible easy to go from Goodsprings to Freeside. I didn't die trying to go to Freeside after the second play through. In Fallout 3, I died every time I tried to go into the DC ruins after leaving Vault 101. Fallout 3 forced you to explore the area outside of the ruins because the game was unforgiving. They had to make the areas around the ruins at least some what attractive because you needed to build up before going to the ruins to continue the main quest. The towns in Fallout 3 also seemed to be in danger more than the ones in New Vegas [ except for Primm]. For example, the Super Mutants near Bigtown set up the Trouble in Bigtown quest. There was also Oasis, Paradise Falls, and the Wasteland Survival Guide. I was more willing to find them than I was towns like Nelson, Cottonwood Cove or Boulder City. There was no reason to go there until forced to and no advantage to do so.

 

What I want would be a game where the world is expansive and you are forced by the game to do so a little bit. The world needs to be a little interesting even if you only go to the location once and never return. And by force, I mean make the game unforgiving and you need to build your character before continuing on the main quest.

 

It was also inconvenient to side with any one other than the NCR. Once you get labeled a terrorist you can't go within the line of sight of the NCR because they will kill you. This isn't much of a choice when it comes to the main quest story line. I felt like I was being herded into siding for the NCR even though I didn't want to.The herding is also further enforced by the fact that the Legion isn't very present in most of the Mojave. The don't show occupied settlements or any other large Legion bases other than the Fort. I don't really consider Nelson and Cottonwood Cove occupied settlements because there are no civilians. Skyrim gave you an all right option. Either side of the revolution weren't located closely to major settlements and you could avoid them while resupplying. I disliked the revolution quests because the were short and not very interesting, but at least you could avoid the two sides to some extent.

Edited June 25, 2013 by trob1000

[peadar1987]

You say it was inconvenient to side with anyone other than the NCR in New Vegas. It was practically impossible to side with anyone other than the BoS in Fallout 3. Your one big choice was to follow the BoS quest line to the end as usual, and then to poison the water, or not.

 

I suppose your experience of NV differed from mine a bit. You felt forced to go to places like Nelson and Cottonwood Cove by the quest line. I didn't like how many places in FO3 seemed fairly irrelevent to the plot, and there was no real sense of achievement for exploring or clearing them. Paradise Falls, Evergreen Mills, Bethesda Ruins, etc. It all felt a bit muddled, whereas the NCR-Legion conflict in NV tied everything together really well for me. It could just be that you prefer the individual missions in FO3, destroying/saving Harold's heart, dealing with the ghouls at Tenpenny Tower, and the election in the Republic of Dave. Me, I preferred the save/mercy-kill the troopers in Nelson, rescue the hostages in the mine, recover the data from Vault 22, help out the Boomers etc.

 

The lack of Legion presence is something that highlights how the money and time were limited. Obsidian wanted to have more settlements under legion control, and a whole extra world space east of the Colorado with quests and challenges to do, but didn't have the time or money to do it.

[trob1000]

Having Legion settlements be planned and being dropped does explain some aspects about the game. Like the ranger station near Devil's Throat. There is no reason for anyone to be out there because there are no settlements or anything else to guard. That area is far off the beaten path and no where near any targets. The size of Nelson and Cottonwood Cove seemed too large to just be abandoned.

 

My opinion towards things like the side quests and locations are have them be interesting to see or serve some purpose like trading. Elder Scrolls games do this well. There are many small towns in Oblivion and Skyrim that don't have quests, but are useful to trade things. As for the quests, the should either not be there or should be written well. The companion quests I went through were more compelling in some ways than the main quest itself. Having more NCR-Legion engagements could have made the game better by making the war seem like a war. But lack of financial resources does explain why New Vegas felt anorexic compared to Fallout 3. At least as far as the rest of the game went outside of the NCR-Legion Conflict.

[JimboUK]

Had Obsidian been given enough time to make the game and had Bethesda not got in way constantly the game would have been a classic, NVs faults lay with Bethesda.

 

On the idea of The Courier vs The Lone Wanderer I'd rather Bethesda stay well away from events in west, I don't want that screwed up by a Bethesda who care little for lore and who have the writing skills of a mentally challenged baboon.

[trob1000]

Bethesda's meddling does not explain why the writing is bad in New Vegas and Skyrim when compared to their predecessors. On the whole, the writing in Oblivion was better than Skyrim because the side quests were thought out and fun. Same thing goes when comparing New Vegas to Fallout 3. By themselves, the main quests in New Vegas and Skyrim were all right, but when including the side quests, it makes the games feel like disappointments.

[wabbawabbajack]

The writing got worse because Bethesda dumbed Skyrim down and invested most of their time in the visual and gameplay elements of the game rather than story telling/writing. I fail to see how Vegas' writing is bad, especially when compared with F3 which is incredibly lazy in it's writing and storytelling elements. Care to provide examples of how you think Vegas' writing is bad?

[peadar1987]

I think FO3's voice acting is better. NV has better writing, but I do think some people (especially Benny) seem like the actors weren't really bothered.

[trob1000]

The parts to advance the main quest were essentially fetch it quests. They weren't thought out. Many of the side quests were fetch it quests as well. The game world outside of Vegas are very empty. The main story about the conflict between the Legion and NCR isn't the problem with me, it is all of the other things about the setting that you have to deal with or just ignore. I didn't buy New Vegas to only play the main quest, I bought it to play all of the game. To me, the best side bit was Honest Hearts.

[JimboUK]

Bethesda's meddling does not explain why the writing is bad in New Vegas and Skyrim when compared to their predecessors. On the whole, the writing in Oblivion was better than Skyrim because the side quests were thought out and fun. Same thing goes when comparing New Vegas to Fallout 3. By themselves, the main quests in New Vegas and Skyrim were all right, but when including the side quests, it makes the games feel like disappointments.

 

There is nothing wrong with the writing in New Vegas, it stands head and shoulders above anything Bethesda have thrown at us of late, Morrowind was the last well written Bethesda game. Oblivion wasn't terrible, it was just a little bland, the writing in FO3 was appalling, listen to the NPCs and ask yourself do people really speak like that? I won't get into Skyrim, the problems with that game would require a week to get through. Most of the issues with Bethesdas games can be traced back to the writing, they just don't see it as a priority, Pete Hines has admitted as much. Bethesda spend way too much time world building and nowhere near enough time on putting things in that world.

[trob1000]

The story in New Vegas isn't the problem with me, it what you have to do to advance it. I feel like an under appreciated delivery boy, not the hero any side wants. I do agree that the worlds in Bethesda games have felt empty in the last few games. Yes voice acting has gotten better since Fallout 3, but what would you expect? Things to get worse or stay the same? The story in Fallout 3 isn't the most compelling, but at least the Enclave tries to kill me. Unless you piss the NCR off, you very rarely run into the other factions. Yes I know the Legion tries to assassinate you, but those are random events that happen few and far between. In F 3, you have a harder time avoiding the Enclave patrols. Occasional firefights with the enemy is a good way to liven the quest up. The Enclave is so spread out, it is sometimes difficult to remember where all of the outposts are. Also, I felt more inclined to find and help Oasis. When I came across Novac or Westside, I didn't care too much about them. The only really interesting place in New Vegas is Freeside in my opinion. The had various groups trying to get a leg up on one another. I felt more interested in Freeside's problems than I was the NCR/Legion/House issues. Things seemed to calm for a war to be on.

Edited June 27, 2013 by trob1000