Looking for some general advice ...

[NikiRandom]

... when starting a new game.

A lot of mods say, start a new game for this mod. On the other hand, I've read in various places that it's better not to start a new game with all mods active. I've definitely found from experience that having all mods active can cause all kinds of trouble getting a new game started. In Alternate Start for e.g., I have real problems just leaving the cell with any number of mods installed. Especially if I leave the cell for an outdoor location.

So I'm just wondering how other people deal with this. If a mod says "start a new game for this", is it generally ok to activate it after I've left the LAL prison? And what if I'm using a Smashed Patch?

I'm just about to start a new playthrough so hoping for some advice about getting it off to a good start. Ty.

Edited April 26, 2021 by NikiRandom

[varkonasnorse]

I generally shy away from mods that say that because it decreases my confidence in the author's ability to make the mod compatible with other mods and the game in general. I don't want to start a new game just to play mod of any kind. I think most players who have a lot of mods that work well with each other would agree. Why take a chance on installing something that may screw up your game permanently. I won't point a finger, but adult mods have a tendency to imbed themselves in your game and you can't rid yourself of them unless you re-install your whole game. Just my opinion. :confused:

[Helmsmasher]

What places are you reading it's better to not start with all mods active? There's nothing worse for a save game than adding and removing mods as you go.

[anjenthedog]

... when starting a new game.

 

A lot of mods say, start a new game for this mod. On the other hand, I've read in various places that it's better not to start a new game with all mods active. I've definitely found from experience that having all mods active can cause all kinds of trouble getting a new game started. In Alternate Start for e.g., I have real problems just leaving the cell with any number of mods installed. Especially if I leave the cell for an outdoor location.

 

So I'm just wondering how other people deal with this. If a mod says "start a new game for this", is it generally ok to activate it after I've left the LAL prison? And what if I'm using a Smashed Patch?

 

I'm just about to start a new playthrough so hoping for some advice about getting it off to a good start. Ty.

 

AFAIK, authors say this because sometimes a mod doesn't "play well with others" in a game already in progress. It's a disclaimer that basically says "for best results, make sure to install this in a fresh game, as I can't guarantee it'll work as intended otherwise", or "I guarantee that if you use a new game, it'll work. YMMV otherwise"

 

And if it's of any worth, so far, at least in my experience, most mods install and work just fine in partial playthrough games regardless of such warnings. can't say all because a) I haven't installed every mod available , and b) I have had a few mods that don't work, although I suspect that has more to do with undocumented/unrecognized contentions, possibly the SKSE64 version (2.017) I'm using due to some really old mods that choke on 2.0.19, and because some have intrinsic flaws that I (usuallly) find unacceptable.

 

Intrinsic flaws anecdote:I installed a mod that added a feature outside Whiterun. It was cool, but the topographic meshes were really screwy and left enormous gaps to the endless miasma below. uninstalled and source deleted. I installed a road improvement mod that left my followers scrambling to walk around almost every portion it affected because its navmesh was sloppily constructed. uninstalled and source deleted. etc etc... I have a player home that I love, but followers routinely fall through the front and back porches, can't enter the main bedroom due to a navmesh issue, and cant exit the home on their own (in that case, I believe the mod has been updated to resolve those issues and add more functionality, but it was the first mod I installed and I did so from Bethesda's in-game mod gizmo, AND it's filled with ~70K weight units of metals, foodstuffs, alchemy ingredients, potions, gems, weapons, and armor, and the garden is fully populated (actually with the addition of Garden Everywhere, overpopulated) and I just don't want to go to the trouble of swapping it out for the new and improved version. for that one, I can deal with it. I have other player homes, and so this is my "man cave", my primary skyrim residence, since I rarely use followers anymore anyway. (although I still wish I could purge the two creepy mannequins that move around 'on their own' from time to time)

[NikiRandom]

Thanks for the responses : -)

Yes this is my understanding too, don't touch your load order after starting a playthrough. Some mods do seem fine with it but then I'm always thinking, yeah but what problems am I storing up that will trash my game at Level 30 or whatever.

This has given me various issues anyway. For instance, mods that add extra enemies and increase difficulty. I've had playthroughs where the carts don't even make it to Helgen without being attacked, resulting either in an entertaining pile-up and much mayhem, or even just Hadvar dismounting to fight and then not arriving at the execution scene so that the story is left hanging and doesn't move on. Other times enemies attack as soon as we leave Helgen caves which can also disrupt the beginning of the story to the point of wrecking the game. Or sometimes Riverwood gets attacked and the conversation by the big tree stump is disrupted and doesn't re-start.

If anyone knows "Man Those Borders", I had that plus another mod (I think it might have been Master of Disguise), the upshot of which meant that the Falkreath guards from the Man Those Borders fort would attack us and prevent us reaching Riverwood in one piece. With the opening of the game being so scripted, it's quite easy for a mod to disrupt the story and prevent it moving on to a point where you have freedom of action. Another mod (Extended Encounters I think, or maybe Populated Skyrim which doesn't have an MCM) once had me being repeatedly attacked and killed by bandits while doing the smithing thing with Alvor. Changing EE's settings in the MCM didn't seem to help and I ended up restarting and then activating the mod later on.

Skytoxin is a fantastic mod, one of my favourites. But it makes it very difficult to get past the spiders in Helgen caves, at least without cheating or playing through that bit 20 times until you make it.

Other mods that change the landscape, add trees or whatever. These can have a similar effect. There was one Riverwood mod that I tried out, which altered the landscape over quite a large area. Very nice mod, but had an unfortunate side effect of interfering with Ralof's pathfinding so that he'd end up getting stuck on his way to the standing stones. Could be fixed by using moveto in the console, but that was unsatisfactory and still raises the question of whether it's better not to install such mods until the initial chapter of the story has been completed.

In general, just having a reasonably large load order seems to make getting the carts to Helgen quite an adventure. I regularly get carts going off course and crashing, or Hadvar getting lost or whatever. Once we even ran over the Imperial captain and killed her. It can take quite a few attempts just to get the story started and moving on.

The other issue seems to be a new game starting with a lot of mods all firing up and initialising themselves in those first few minutes. Using the vanilla start (i.e. not ASLAL) generally has issues with all the mods sorting themselves out during the cart ride. For instance ELFX Hardcore doesn't seem to like it, and I've had it CTD when entering the first tower in Helgen.

Using ASLAL seemed like the best solution to this - to get all the mods running and initialised before actually starting the game. But then I ran into problems leaving the ASLAL prison, constant CTDs when exiiting to an exterior location. Or if exiting to an interior location such as an inn, CTD as soon as I tried to leave there.

Hence my posting. I was just wondering how other people start off a new game if they have quite an extensive load order. Some thread posts say get through Helgen/Unbound or even to Riverwood before activating your whole load order, and do it in stages rather than all at once. Which goes against other advice not to change your load order after starting a new game.

Anyway, I think I've got the stability issue fixed. I found a v helpful post on the Net Script Framework page, which suggested a couple of tweaks in skyrim.ini. The tweaks extend the amount of time that papyrus has to catch up with itself when entering a new cell. It's measured in milliseconds and it's totally unnoticeable, but I've tested it several times now and it seems to work a treat. I can now leave the ASLAL prison with all mods active and touch wood, it will help to make the game more stable later on when changing cells. The other suggestion was replacing the tb.dll and tbmalloc.dll files that SSE Engine Fixes adds, with those from CK Fixes. Apparently the latter are optimised but I wasn't particularly methodical about it so it's hard to say which remedy was the key, or both.

Still interested to hear people's thoughts on the topic of how to deal with mods that make the initial Helgen to Riverwood chapter a nightmare of difficulty. Immersive it might be, but it can be rather trying too when you're starting a new game for the umpteenth time especially with mods that have no MCM. Could also link to the above suggestions, in case anyone else finds it helpful.

[anjenthedog]

FWIW, my last new playthrough was with about 280-ish mods installed. I don't use LAL (had massive problems with that one) so I had to play the whole vanilla wagon ride/Helgen thing. it all went just fine, although I was concerned by the constant stream of mods instantiating themselves into the new game from all the forum noise about that situation supposedly being a "guarantor" of CTDs and other problems. I'm up to around 360 mods now and haven't tried a new game yet. I'll have to see if things are still copacetic for a new start...one of these days, but I still have plenty of time on both of the vectors I'm playing at present before I "need" to do so.

[leonardo2]

FWIW, my last new playthrough was with about 280-ish mods installed. I don't use LAL (had massive problems with that one) so I had to play the whole vanilla wagon ride/Helgen thing. it all went just fine, although I was concerned by the constant stream of mods instantiating themselves into the new game from all the forum noise about that situation supposedly being a "guarantor" of CTDs and other problems. I'm up to around 360 mods now and haven't tried a new game yet. I'll have to see if things are still copacetic for a new start...one of these days, but I still have plenty of time on both of the vectors I'm playing at present before I "need" to do so.

I've always used LAL since day one, but with a smaller loadorder than you have and never had a major issue with it.

 

Of course I also use LOOT, Wrye Bash, and TESxEdit, just to make my modded Skyrim (SLE, SSE) stable.

[anjenthedog]

I've always used LAL since day one, but with a smaller loadorder than you have and never had a major issue with it.

 

 

Of course I also use LOOT, Wrye Bash, and TESxEdit, just to make my modded Skyrim (SLE, SSE) stable.

 

OK...lemme say it again without offending you and getting your panties in a twist about the all-hallowed LAL (which this isn't about)

 

I had around 280 mods installed when I last started a new game. Everything went just fine.

[Helmsmasher]

 

I've always used LAL since day one, but with a smaller loadorder than you have and never had a major issue with it.

 

 

Of course I also use LOOT, Wrye Bash, and TESxEdit, just to make my modded Skyrim (SLE, SSE) stable.

 

OK...lemme say it again without offending you and getting your panties in a twist about the all-hallowed LAL (which this isn't about)

 

I had around 280 mods installed when I last started a new game. Everything went just fine.

 

 

But you didn't use lal, which is what he was refering to. Seems like you're the one with their panties in a twist over nothing...

[RichterZorg]

Hey, at least you read the authors description and instructions! I don't think it's necessarily the mod author being incompetent, or lacking confidence in their mods capabilities.. it's just that there are so many mods that can interfere with many aspects of the games engine., and just because you disable a mod, doesn't remove all the extra files that mod created in the save files. That being said, some mods have to be activated at the start because of scripts and leveling consistencies, quest mods like Helgen Reborn, Legacy Of The Dragonborn are a must have at start time. More importantly though I think a "Clean Start New Game" is better.. this ensures that ALL the created files from existing and removed mods are gone from your last play-through. Yeah it kinda sucks having to remove the main file and re-download it again and all that entails, but it does make a big difference. What I normally do when I know I'm adding/removing a mod is, the next time I'm leaving the game, I hit a bed and sleep for 4 hours, when the timer ticks down and I awaken, I do a full save, so I have two saves (auto and hard) then I load the auto save first after mod-altering to see if I broke my game. I still have the Hard Save file that I can go back to once I reinstall/remove the mod that broke the game.