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Strange flashing polygons on inventory and CTD

step ctd crash crash to desktop inventory crash inventory skyui unstable stability wtf

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#1
TheStrangerPJM

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I have a problem.  So far, on the nexus, nobody's a stranger to the infamous CTD.  However, I've been very careful and I can safely say mine is likely not a load order issue.  There's no CTD on startup, nor is there, according to Skyrim Performance Monitor, a 3.1gb limit breach.  In fact, I never get over 1.78.  But my issue is CTD upon opening inventory.  I'm convinced it has something to do with loading cells, Climates of Tamriel, and SkyUI.  What I don't know is if it's my system, a poor list of mods/mod order, something missing, or otherwise.  I've verified the game integrity, cleaned the Masters, and then installed my mods one by one very carefully.

So here's the more specific description of the problem.  
It happens when opening the Magic or Inventory Menu in certain areas.  To name a few:

*On the way to Bleak Falls Barrow, halway up the mountain just before the Bandit Watchtower.
*The wheat fields outside Whiterun, approaching the Companions as they slay the Giant.
*Approaching Falkreath for the first time, depending on the time of day.  It happens more often than not, though, and sometimes when inside the town near the cemetary or the gates.
*Occasionally in caves, but usually when discovering new locations.
*In Markarth, at random times, throughout the city.

Here's an example of the bug I get BEFORE the ctd happens, almost as a 'warning sign' :

http://www.nexusmods...Images/369396/?

Again, these issues are mostly exacerbated by opening up the inventory or magic menu.  And I'm pretty sure I don't need to tell anyone how immersion-breaking "well just don't open up your inventory" would be as a default solution.  Lol.

 

I'm sure there are more areas than that where there's the problem.  But based on these locations, I'm of the opinion that these are loading zones where the game holds 2 or more different cells in memory. which can be taxing.  But Skyrim Performance Monitor doesn't actually show that 3.1 gig limit ever getting hit.  Or at least if it does, it spikes up faster than a record can be produced.

 

Performance Monitor has me at an average of between 619MB and 900MB of memory.  VRAM ranges from 287mb to 1710mb.  CPU% ranges from 5-40%.  GPU% ranges from 47%-87%, even in windowed mode.  It gets quite hot too, from 38-90 degrees Farhenheit.  There's a lot of lag in certain areas, which drives me crazy.  I've had 2 different GPU's, so I can't say one is inherently better than the other.  Both have had 6gb of VRAM.

Currently, I'm running with 2 16gb RAM sticks, for a total of 32gb of RAM.  PC is custom built.  I have an NVIDIA GTX TITAN 6gb graphics card.  Allegedly powerful.  Noisy as hell though, and has no idea how to handle all of its own power lol.    

Theoretically, my system exceeds the requirements to run all of the mods I'm using plus ENB, let alone without them.  The crash happens either way though.  

Has anyone ever heard of Climates of Tamriel being a problem with SkyUI?  I've tested this very carefully by running the game without skse, and the issues never arose.  I also used skse and uninstalled COT, and the problem was alleviated (but not totally removed.  There was still lag, and an eventual CTD, just much later after a stress test in that area).  I'm frustrated.  There are plenty of people on the nexus, based on the endorsements that use both Climates of Tamriel and SkyUI, as well as the RealVision ENB mod to justify keeping it, and not abandoning it.  

 

I've got about 143 plugins installed, ranging from a few lands like Faalskar and Moonpath, SkyRE, Climates of Tamriel, Ehnanced Lights and FX, the RealVision ENB files that enhance those, and various mid-res texture packs.  By a lot of other people's standards, this list is fairly minimal as far as plugins go.  My computer specs, at least in theory, should handle this times five.  Skyrim can.  Or can it?  Here's my mod list and Load Order.

Skyrim.esm Active
Update.esm Active
Dawnguard.esm Active
HearthFires.esm Active
Dragonborn.esm Active
Falskaar.esm Active
ApachiiHair.esm Active
ApachiiHairFemales.esm Active
ApachiiHairMales.esm Active
RaceCompatibility.esm Active
Skyrim Project Optimization - No Homes - Full Version.esm Active
ClimatesOfTamriel.esm Active
ETaC - RESOURCES.esm Active
moonpath.esm Active
SPIKE.esm Active
HighResTexturePack01.esp Active
HighResTexturePack02.esp Active
HighResTexturePack03.esp Active
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp Active
USKP Patcher for RaceCompatibility.esp Active
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp Active
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp Active
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp Active
SplashofRain.esp Active
IceBreaker's Improved Reverb-v0.02-Cleaned.esp Active
LIAT - Sounds.esp Active
PersonalizedMusic - NoVanillaMusic_v5.0.esp Active
PersonalizedMusic_v5.0.esp Active
PM_TempleMusic_v1.0.esp Active
PM_PlayerHomeMusic_DB_v1.0.esp Active
PM_DragonbornMusic_NoVanilla_v1.1.esp Active
PM_DawnguardMusic_v1.0.esp Active
PM_BlackreachMusic_v1.0.esp Active
PM_BlackreachMusic_NoVanilla_v1.0.esp Active
PM_PlayerHomeMusic_NoVanilla_DB_v1.0.esp Active
PM_DawnguardMusic_NoVanilla_v1.0.esp Active
PM_CollegeMusic_v1.0.esp Active
PM_DwemerMusic_NoVanilla_DBUpdate_v1.0.esp Active
PM_DwemerMusic_DBUpdate_v1.0.esp Active
PM_TempleMusic_NoVanilla_v1.0.esp Active
PM_DragonbornMusic_v1.1.esp Active
lockpickvision.esp Active
StaticMeshImprovementMod.esp Active
StaticMeshImprovementMod-DragonbornTernFix.esp Active
StaticMeshImprovementMod-FurnitureChestSnowFix.esp Active
Auto Unequip Ammo.esp Active
CalienteVanillaArmorTweaks.esp Active
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp Active
LIAT - NPCs.esp Active
More Salt Please.esp Active
Footprints.esp Active
Footprints - Ash.esp Active
towConversation.esp Active
SkyUI.esp Active
iHUD.esp Active
Customizable Camera.esp Active
7B_DragonbornArmors.esp Active
7B Leather Clothes.esp Active
7B-Sexy Tsun Armor.esp Active
Ancient Skyforge Armor.esp Active
BFPU Orcish Armor.esp Active
Northgirl.esp Active
SleekSteel_StandAlone.esp Active
The Unclaimed Delivery.esp Active
UNPB Barbarian Armor.esp Active
Veteran Nord Plate.esp Active
HarvestOverhaulDawnguardDragonborn.esp Active
HarvestOverhaulSalmonRoe.esp Active
HarvestOverhaulCreaturesDawnguardHearthfireDragonborn.esp Active
DeadlyDragons.esp Active
MIDFollowMeCloser.esp Active
SkyRe_Main.esp Active
SkyRe_Combat.esp Active
SkyRe_EncounterZones.esp Active
SkyRe_EnemyAI.esp Active
SkyRe_EnemyScaling.esp Active
SkyRe_HarvestOverhaulDawnguardDragonbornPatch.esp Active
quest_andtherealmsofdaedra.esp Active
Beautiful Whiterun.esp Active
Gildergreen Regrown.esp Active
tos_granitehall.esp Active
Immersive Solstheim.esp Active
moonpath_questdata.esp Active
quest_nomercy.esp Active
quest_sorcery.esp Active
RealisticWhiterun.esp Active
quest_seaofghosts.esp Active
Wyrmstooth.esp Active
AchieveThat.esp Active
Babette.esp Active
FasterArrows75.esp Active
FasterArrows50.esp Active
FasterArrows100.esp Active
FasterArrows.esp Active
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp Active
SameWalkRunSpeeds.esp Active
SkyFalls Plus SkyMills - All DLC and Falskaar.esp Active
SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp Active
Convenient Horses.esp Active
ETaC - Darkwater Crossing.esp Active
ETaC - Dawnstar.esp Active
ETaC - Dawnstar HF Patch.esp Active
ETaC - Dragon Bridge.esp Active
ETaC - Rorikstead.esp Active
tos_amber_guard.esp Active
tos_oakwood_hf.esp Active
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp Active
ELFX - Exteriors.esp Active
ELFX - Moonpath.esp Active
ELFX - Dawnguard.esp Active
ELFX - Dragonborn.esp Active
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp Active
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp Active
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dungeons-Hazardous.esp Active
ClimatesOfTamriel-Interiors-Warm.esp Active
ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-Level-2.esp Active
CoT_SnowPatch_HQSnowVersion.esp Active
ELFXEnhancer.esp Active
Locational Damage.esp Active
The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp Active
dD-No Spinning Death Animation.esp Active
Sit Anywhere.esp Active
TheEyesOfBeauty.esp Active
3DNPC.esp Active
NPC_Overhaul_1_3_.esp Active
Follower_Addon_V2_.esp Active
NoNakedComments.esp Active
CharacterMakingExtender.esp Active
dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp Active
EnhancedCharacterEdit.esp Active
TTYM - Think to Yourself Messages.esp Active
WATER.esp Active
WATER Plants.esp Active
WATER DG.esp Active
WATER DB Waves.esp Active
WATER Falskaar.esp Active
MineMarkers.esp Active
Bashed Patch, 0.esp Active
ReProccer.esp Active


Honest Question:  Do you guys think it's my computer specs, system settings, or conflicting mods that are causing the problem?  There are some mods I can live without.  But the ENB I love so much (which by itself works fine and causes no bugs or CTD) depends onAttached File  enb 2013_12_06 19_59_49_97.jpg   233.79KB   9 downloadsAttached File  enb 2013_12_06 19_59_49_97.jpg   233.79KB   9 downloads

enb 2013_12_06 19_59_49_97.jpg

COT and Enhanced Lights and FX to function.  And other people seem to have no problems when these are the mods they're using concurrently, separately, or otherwise.  

Please help, and thanks again guys!

-Patman.



#2
IsharaMeradin

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It is an odd artifact that is for sure.  It very well could be caused by something the lighting mod or ENB are doing on screen when the SkyUI menu is loaded.  But that is just a guess.  

 

Some things you could try...

-- change the font size of SkyUI to large

-- change the icon type from the default to something else

 

Other than that I noticed that your USKP patches were out of order (unless you have not updated to the 2.0+ versions).  You may want to consider running BOSS at least as a trial run to see how it would order your mods.



#3
Drax8

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I have been getting the same thing, almost exactly as you describe. It started after I began using Safety Load. Are you using that?

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Safety Load, it has fixed more problems than it has caused me. I can post my load order if you want, it's quite different from yours (I don't use CoT for example).



#4
dzorro

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not really sure it even is safetyload, it started when i updated d3d.dll from enb to 2.39 version previous once where working fine.

 

What version of enb are you using ??



#5
TheStrangerPJM

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@dzorro, I'm using the latest binaries in order to run 'RealVision ENB' for Enhanced Lights and FX/COT.  So the newest version, 2.39.  
Although I should note that these problems, while to a much lesser extent, existed long before I ever used an ENB period. So while the d3d.dll may be contributing, I doubt it's the sole factor.

@Drax8, posting your load order would help tremendously.  We can try to help each other out. I'm still playing around with my Skyrim.ini settings, which seem to be helping the problem be less frequent.  However, a truly stable skyrim setup should be able to run smoothly without said adjustments.  I'm strongly inclined to agree with your comment about safety load.  I'm considering starting a new file without it installed to see if things are cleaner without it.  As of right now, the infinite loading screen (ILS) never exists in a save file that never once had safety load.  However, on a file I've used it on previously, then turned it off, the ILS is almost a guarantee.
    Very similar to an alteration to 'uGridsToLoad' adjustments, in that it directly alters the way skyrim allocates its memory.  Which I'm sure can be adjusted in the Skyrim.ini anyway.  about to try that.



#6
Drax8

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Ok posting my load order to hopefully help. Couple things, first it shows Tribunal Robes at the bottom, but it is in fact in the correct space. Also I should mention that the flashing polygons followed by the CTD are semi rare, but it does happen.

 

Spoiler
 
As far as ENB, I am using Season of Skyrim True HDR ENB with v221 of the binary (HIGHLY recommend this btw).
 
I do have a large mod list, but enjoy rather stable gameplay, minus the occasional CTD after the weird polygons show up. No ILS or freezes at all thanks to Safety Load.


#7
Jellicent

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This is very interesting.

I have had this happen a few times and I was very sure that it was actually SkyUI + Safety Load that were beating up each other.

I'll follow this thread. :D



#8
redneck2x

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I have exactly same problem.

Polygons in menu and then CTD. or just CTD on opening any menu.

I also have large mods list, but I don't think that the problem is load order.

 

Potential suspects are : SkyUI , Safety load, ENB

So I recommend to experiment temporary remove Safety load and see how it goes.



#9
Jellicent

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I have exactly same problem.

Polygons in menu and then CTD. or just CTD on opening any menu.

I also have large mods list, but I don't think that the problem is load order.

 

Potential suspects are : SkyUI , Safety load, ENB

So I recommend to experiment temporary remove Safety load and see how it goes.

 

As for me, when I removed Safety Load.... well.... a lot of CTDs the last time I tried. I could try again, but I'd rather live with a few CTDs and polygons jumping around than with an unplayable, every minute crashing game. :(



#10
TheStrangerPJM

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Hey guys, so I've found a potential "fix."  I use this phrase in quotation marks, because a real fix would be ideally to not have to use an outside program to make these changes.  However, these two things have helped me significantly.  

Part 1: In your skyrim.ini folder, if you have a lot of mods installed, the game's papyrus settings will need to be improved.  Note, I say "improved," not 'fixed,' because there's nothing inherently broken with their settings as is for a relatively unmodded game.  However, when you have a lot of high texture packs combined with script-based mods, it does change a lot, and the game engine needs to accommodate for a larger load order. 
Note: these settings will not appear if you have not already edited them.  They're hidden/implied in the game engine itself, so you'll need to type them out manually.  or cut and paste them from here.

Skyrim.ini Papyrus DEFAULT:

[Papyrus]

fUpdateBudgetMS=1.2

fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.2

fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=500.0 ;Xenon and PS3 use 2000.0

iMinMemoryPageSize=128

iMaxMemoryPageSize=512

iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=76800

bEnableLogging=0

bEnableTrace=0

bLoadDebugInformation=0

bEnableProfiling=0

 

Change the papyrus setting to THIS:
fUpdateBudgetMS=1.6

fExtraTaskletBudgetMS=1.6

iMinMemoryPageSize=256

iMaxMemoryPageSize=8192

iMaxAllocatedMemoryBytes=8388608  

fPostLoadUpdateTimeMS=1000.0

bEnableLogging=0

bEnableTrace=0

bLoadDebugInformation=0

 

The above setting is based on my own personal research, as well as what I've culled from the S.T.E.P (Skyrim Total Enhancement Project) community website.  The papyrus makes the game run.  Most of these settings are doubled, if not tripled, making the game's "internal glass ceiling" raised just enough to load things (like a fast-paced opening of the inventory in the middle of a SkyTEST induced wolf-pack attack in an expanded Riverwood that also has Interesting NPC's fighting the wolves).  You may find that instead of outright crashing, where the game says "that's it, I quit," it pauses for a good 5-10 seconds, and then ACTUALLY LOADS the inventory!  I was super impressed by this.  

 

There are lots of other settings out there that will want to change a whole lot more, and may indeed improve performance.  But from my experience, while they do increase the framerate in many worldspaces, they also produce a lot of instability and can actually increase ctds.  So play around if you want to, but just tacking on a bunch of zeros at the end of each variable won't inherently mean better performance.  It'll make the game 'run on crack,' and like a junkie enjoying his payday, eventually crash from the glorious high it appears to be.   For detailed explanations about what papyrus settings do, I refer you to the creation kit: http://www.creationk...ttings_(Papyrus)

 

Part 2:  Install a program called "CleanMem." It can be found here:
http://www.pcwintech.com/cleanmem

What it is: a memory leak fix.  
What it does: it tames memory leaky applications (like Skyrim) by performing program-specific maintenance at certain intervals. After installing it to any directory you want it, you can program it to turn on at the start of Skyrim (or any application) and run it every 30, 15, 10, 5, or even 2 minutes, to take away things like leftover scripts and memory-hogging stuff.  
For more information, it's featured on the Skyrim Project Stability "mod" page: http://forum.step-pr...ad.php?tid=2470

http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/32363/?

Final thoughts:
These two programs significantly helped the playability of my game.  They did NOT, however fix things completely.  I still sometimes get freezes, I still sometimes get ctd, and they still happen in places they used to.  However, their interval is much less frequent.  Whereas, I once crashed in certain worldspaces every 10 minutes or less, I can play a few quests at a time, level up, and fight in dungeons before something bad happened. 
     Skyrim is reviewed to be perhaps one of the best and worst games for modding out there: it has created an expansive worldspace, some stunning lore, fun gameplay, and a (potentially, when even slightly modded) world that is the biggest this generation of RPG's has ever seen.  When it works, its also fun as hell.  And it accomplishes all of this while operating through a really dated Gamebryo engine, which is both impressive and unfortunate.  Impressive, because I'd like to see you or anyone else try to build a world that big on ancient game tech.  Unfortunate because it makes a lot of mods break unexpectedly, even when their PC's are totally capable of handling whatever is thrown at them.

 

Oh, and final thoguhts:  If you feel safety load, even with these fixes implemented, is causing ctd in worldspaces, try going to the safety load ini and changing it to only turn on during loadscreens.  Deceptively, it tries to do more than just that and it often causes more problems than it's worth.  But for a loadscreen fix, it works great.

I still would like to keep this forum alive.  My problems are far from over.  But I'm no longer so frustrated, and am actually enjoying the game.  These issues still exist, so for anyone curious about finding their root cause, keep me/us posted.  We'll get to the bottom of this together!
-Patman.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: step, ctd, crash, crash to desktop, inventory crash, inventory, skyui, unstable, stability, wtf

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