NPCs being placed in my inventory? Very confused.

[newhampshirean]

So, as the title implies, I've been plagued with the strangest bug I've ever seen. Enemy NPCs/creatures are being placed dynamically into my inventory.

 

Here are the specifics of the actual event:

• There is no consistent impetus. It can happen while looting a chest or body. It seems to happen more often in combat. Most often it seems to happen completely randomly.
• The object placed in my inventory is an actual NPC, not a token or similar; it isn't an object at all, but a line with the name of an NPC and their weight (which is usually 50 or 100).
• So far, these have only been NPCs from leveled lists (Bandit, Outlaw, Dwarven Centurion, Frost Troll, Hagraven, etc.).
• This object counts towards my weight total. This makes it easy to detect when it happens if it overencumbers me.
• There is no message associated with this occurrence, a la harvesting or picking up an item from the world.
• If I "drop" the object, it may or may not be removed, and upon closing the inventory menu, that NPC will spawn "placeatme"-style.
• The NPC can NOT be removed via the console because NPC Editor IDs are not valid targets for the relevant inventory commands (removeallitems and showinventory also do nothing).

 

But, most importantly: if I hover over the object in the inventory screen, or drop the object (and it tries to come back), the game instantly crashes to desktop. This may have something to do with the game attempting to retrieve and display a model in the inventory menu, but I can only speculate at this point.

 

Before I go any further, here are the results of my troubleshooting:

• There are two iterations: (1) the object appears in my inventory and stays there until it causes a CTD, or (2) an object is at once placed into and removed from my inventory.
• The second iteration does not seem to cause crashes, but it happens repeatedly (every few seconds) until I exit Skyrim, spamming "You are carrying to much to run". :down:
• If I notice an object in my inventory (the first case above), I can save the game and reload or "player.kill" and the object will be gone. For now...
• Given its nature, I assume it has to be script-based. But throughout all the savegames I've inspected, I have yet to find a common script running near crash time.
• Nor have I ever had an instance of unattached/orphaned scripts in my current playthrough (nor should I have any reason to).
• Since I cannot consistently reproduce it, and because I have not updated or removed any scripts since I began playing, I have not bothered to test a completely new character.
• Luckily, it is not ever-present. How often it shows up seems to be random (some days I never run into it).

Has anyone ever encountered this before!? :confused:

 

Searches on these forums, my mods' pages, and Google don't yield anything.

 

I want to blame ASIS, because, as much as I find it essential, it usually is to blame. But I've been using ASIS for a loooong time and have never encountered this before. And even though I'm on a fresh install, this is the same version number of ASIS I'd been using previously. In fact, most of my install is identical (with nothing new that I would suspect is related to this).

 

 

[Deleted6773806User]

I'm experiencing the exact same issue here, but I don't have ASIS. I'm getting "Jarl's Bodyguard" and "Vampire's Thrall" randomly spawning in my inventory, and I don't know what mod could be causing it.

Load order:

 

Skyrim.esm=1

Update.esm=1

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp=1

Dawnguard.esm=1

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp=1

HearthFires.esm=1

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp=1

Dragonborn.esm=1

Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp=1

Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm=1

XFLMain.esm=1

RSkyrimChildren.esm=1

HighResTexturePack01.esp=1

HighResTexturePack02.esp=1

HighResTexturePack03.esp=1

Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp=1

Extended UI.esp=1

BHWarPaints.esp=1

Balanced_Magic_Dawnguard.esp=1

sec_friendsforever.esp=1

Differently Ebony.esp=1

JaxonzLightsPlease.esp=1

RaceMenu.esp=1

Convenient Horses - Faster Sprint.esp=1

Auto Unequip Ammo.esp=1

Better Summoning Visuals - TheGreyLight.esp=1

AHZmoreHUD.esp=1

Better Dynamic Snow.esp=1

Smoking Torches.esp=1

Atlas Compass Tweaks.esp=1

Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp=1

p3dr0-wpn.esp=1

Convenient Horses.esp=1

Headtracking.esp=1

Spells Cast Light.esp=1

Beards.esp=1

dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp=1

dD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.esp=1

dD-Reduced Wound Size.esp=1

DeadlyDragons.esp=1

dD-Reduced Splatter Size.esp=1

Mark Books as Read.esp=1

LeftHandRings - Dawnguard.esp=1

A Tragedy In Black - Enchanting Remastered - TheGreyLight.esp=1

DeadlySpellImpacts.esp=1

Disenchanting.esp=1

Dual Flurry for all.esp=1

Overpower.esp=1

Realistic crime report radius.esp=1

EnchantedArsenal.esp=1

HitStop.esp=1

FISS.esp=1

HearthFire Display Case Fix.esp=1

JZBai_PracticalFemaleArmors.esp=1

iHUD.esp=1

Immersive detection of NPC.esp=1

Imperious - Races of Skyrim.esp=1

immersive roads.esp=1

fFastTravelSpeedMult_4.esp=1

Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp=1

ImprovedMageLight.esp=1

ProperPotionNames.esp=1

LeftHandRings.esp=1

BLESSINGS - Altar Descriptions.esp=1

AutoHarvest2.esp=1

vwrSprintJump.esp=1

wintermyst - enchantments of skyrim.esp=1

AMB Glass Variants Lore.esp=1

Notification Overhaul.esp=1

changed syntaxes.esp=1

dD-No Spinning Death Animation.esp=1

OpenFaceGuardHelmets.esp=1

BetterQuestObjectives-Hearthfire.esp=1

RaceMenuPlugin.esp=1

Reduced Distance NPC Greetings.esp=1

TrueBrows.esp=1

RSChildren - Complete.esp=1

RSChildren_PatchUSKP.esp=1

SkyUI.esp=1

Customizable Camera.esp=1

Dual Sheath Redux.esp=1

Headtrack Crosshair.esp=1

LessIntrusiveHUD.esp=1

SpellChargingFramework.esp=1

SwiftPotion.esp=1

The Dance of Death - Ultimate Edition.esp=1

towConversation.esp=1

TradeBarter.esp=1

TrueEyes.esp=1

TwoHandedUnlock.esp=1

UnlimitedBookshelves.esp=1

HoodsAndCirclets.esp=1

Brawl Bugs CE.esp=1

3DNPC.esp=1

RealisticWaterTwo.esp=1

FCO - Follower Commentary Overhaul.esp=1

DragonShoutVoice.esp=1

hornsareforever.esp=1

No_stretching.esp=1

Unique Uniques.esp=1

UnreadBooksGlow.esp=1

walk.esp=1

Weightless Items - Mongoose Mix.esp=1

BetterQuestObjectives.esp=1

aMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.esp=1

skyforgedWeapons.esp=1

BetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.esp=1

Book Covers Skyrim.esp=1

Breezehome_Fully_Upgradable.esp=1

Better Followers - SP.esp=1

moveitLWT.esp=1

Convenient Bridges.esp=1

Inconsequential NPCs.esp=1

RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp=1

Run For Your Lives.esp=1

Cloaks.esp=1

Point The Way.esp=1

Long lost smelters by Hyralux.esp=1

SMIM-Merged-All.esp=1

Ars Metallica - Legendary Edition.esp=1

Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp=1

RealisticWaterTwo - Waves.esp=1

Atlas Legendary.esp=1

Immersive Followers.esp=1

SummonFollowers.esp=1

Signs_of_Skyrim.esp=1

Long Lost Chopping Blocks.esp=1

RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Dawnguard.esp=1

LostLongSwords.esp=1

Dead Body Collision.esp=1

Balanced_Magic.esp=1

_tck_SpellCrafting.esp=1

PrayAtShrines.esp=1

ExpandedCarriageService.esp=1

Gildergreen Regrown.esp=1

Glowtastic.esp=1

My Home Is Your Home.esp=1

MoreNPCs.esp=1

UniqueNPCsProtected.esp=1

WetandCold.esp=1

WetandCold - Ashes.esp=1

When Vampires Attack.esp=1

XFLDialogue.esp=1

XFLPlugins.esp=1

Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp=1

BetterQuestObjectives-AlternateStartPatch.esp=1

Dual Sheath Redux Patch.esp=1

 

 

[newhampshirean]

I still haven't been able to determine the cause.

 

Terminating scripts and clean saving does not completely remove the issue.

 

Luckily the game is still playable, and it does not seem to be exacerbated by a larger save file. However, when it does appear, it seems to still around for a while like a cold, and it can be pretty disruptive to have to continuously reload.

[newhampshirean]

@CompliantCriminalScum

 

I'm glad that you aren't using ASIS so that I can eliminate that as a possibility (maybe), because I was pretty sure it wasn't an issue, having used it ad infinitum.

 

As far as your load order: I have quite a bit of overlap with you, however in general, our installs are vastly different from one another.

 

One thing that made me curious, however, was that we both use Swift Potion...I don't know why, but I keep having this feeling that that mod is somehow involved. I haven't bothered posting on that mod page because on the surface I can't find any reason why it would be doing something so weird, and my limited scripting knowledge makes it impossible to investigate further. Are you using the most recent version of Swift Potion with the JContainers requirement?

[newhampshirean]

Although I didn't approach it very scientifically since my intention was not primarily to troubleshoot, I just started a new game sans Enhanced Blood Textures and Swift Potion Reborn (the only changes). I have yet to encounter this bug so far.

 

Certainly not a definitive "case closed", but it's possible the scripts in either of those mods may have played a role. As to whether or not is was a freak script error that attached itself to my save early on, or some wierd interaction with scripts from other mods, or something entirely different, I have no way of knowing.

 

But if anyone else encounters this and they are using one or both of these mods, try testing without them.

 

[NOTE: Even after using the MCM uninstall options and scrubbing clean with a script tool, I couldn't make my existing save stable after removing these mods. Although that may be because of how old/large it was at that point.]

Edited February 2, 2015 by newhampshirean

[oxman1]

hi , i have the same problem...here is my load order if it helps

 

 

Update.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
Dawnguard.esm
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
HearthFires.esm
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
Falskaar.esm
Wyrmstooth.esp
EFFCore.esm
ClimatesOfTamriel.esm
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
Cutting Room Floor.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp
Auto Unequip Ammo.esp
Improved Dragon Shouts.esp
dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp
LeftHandRings - Dawnguard.esp
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp
Brawl Bugs CE.esp
Better Dynamic Snow.esp
Atlas Compass Tweaks.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch_DB.esp
Improved Dragon Shouts - Dawnguard.esp
Convenient Horses.esp
UIExtensions.esp
Predator Vision.esp
BarenziahQuestMarkers.esp
SkyUI.esp
SaveHotKeyMCM.esp
AchieveThat.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch_NL2.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch_Snow-40.esp
DeadlyMonsters.esp
SwiftPotion.esp
DartTrap harder.esp
EFFDialogue.esp
DeadlyDragons.esp
360WalkandRunPlus-RunBackwardSpeedAdjust.esp
Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
ELFX - Exteriors.esp
ELFX - Dragonborn.esp
ELFX - Dawnguard.esp
Footprints.esp
Footprints - Ash.esp
KillingTraps.esp
Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
Improved Dragon Shouts - Dragonborn.esp
LeftHandRings.esp
SabreFurBag.esp
ViewableFactionRanksBothDLC.esp
KillingTraps_FirePlates.esp
PumpingIron.esp
Purewaters.esp
Purewaters-Falskaar.esp
SkyCompleteLegendary.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel Falskaar.esp
SplashofRain.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
AOS.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
AOS2_CoT3_1_patch.esp
AOS2_EBT Patch.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp
ELFXEnhancer.esp
Helgen Reborn.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB + FS + WT.esp
Breezehome_Fully_Upgradable.esp
Cloaks - Player Only - Dawnguard.esp
ELFX_2_0_BFU_Patch.esp
Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp
SkyFalls DB + FS Small Waterfalls.esp
dD-DG-DB-Immersive Creatures EBT Patch.esp
CCO_SIC_Patch.esp
Rebirth Monster.esp
Rebirth Monster - SIC Patch.esp
UltimateCombat.esp
Combat Evolved.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
aMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.esp
Cloaks - Player Only.esp
COMBINED WEAPONS.esp
Smithing Perks Overhaul_Remade.esp
SMIM OPTIONALS MERGED.esp
Atlas Legendary.esp
Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
isilNarsil.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
iNeed.esp
iNeed - Dangerous Diseases.esp
EmpoweredMagic.esp
UniqueWeaponsRedone.esp
Unique Uniques.esp
AOS2_WAF Patch.esp
EmpoweredMagic_Dawnguard.esp
Acquisitive Soul Gems.esp
EmpoweredMagic_Dragonborn.esp
WeaponsArmorFixes_ambSkyforge_Patch.esp
Werewolf Loot- Dawnguard version.esp
WetandCold.esp
AOS2_WetandCold Patch.esp
WetandCold - Ashes.esp
TES5Merged.esp

Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

[newhampshirean]

@oxman1

 

Since my last post (in my new game), I have never run into this problem. But, like I said, I was unable to completely identify the cause. I could also not reliably reproduce it for testing when I did have it--not that that would have helped much considering how scripts work in saves.

 

If you have no problem starting a new game, or better yet, can reliably reproduce the bug yourself, try testing a fresh game minus Enhanced Blood Textures and/or Swift Potion Reborn. These (along with Forgotten Magic Reborn and Burn Freeze Shock Effects, which you don't have) are the only mods I removed when I started my new game.

 

And, like I said, even though that would seem to have solved my problem, I have not bothered those mod authors about this as it was too difficult to test/confirm. For all I know, it could be a one-in-a-million vanilla scripting error.

 

Good luck!

[oxman1]

most likely it's swift potion reborn,i disabled the mod in mcm menu and i have never encounter the bug again. then i uninstalled the mod cleaned my save file and i think is all good now. i also posted on the swift potion page but no answer yet.

[Vudou]

I've been using Enhanced Blood Textures for a long time and never came across this issue, so I don't think that mod would be the problem. I have no idea about Swift Potion, as I do not use that mod.

 

Do you have any auto looting mod such as Auto Harvest? It might be conflicting with Swift Potion. I use Auto Harvest, but not Swift Potion. Auto Harvest itself hasn't caused this issue for me, but maybe it's conflicting with Swift Potion. That's if Swift Potion is the culprit. I looked at the Swift Potion mod and don't see how it would be looting NPC's. But maybe an auto looting mod is trying to use potions off a dead body from Swift Potion and is looting the body instead. Who knows. Just a thought because I saw that ComplaintCriminalScum has Auto Harvest. I'm only going off that though because you haven't posted your load order and I don't know what mods you use.

 

If you're mostly using Swift Potion for healing during combat, you can try using the mod Smart Cast as an alternative. Though, it's for magic so you'll have to pick up some healing spells. I don't know what to do about Stamina and food. I don't use any mod that auto drink or eat any potions or food. I just use Smart Cast for all my magic buffs to auto cast at the beginning of fights so I don't have to toggle through my 'favourites' and do so myself.

 

I looked at Swift Potion in TES5Edit and it only adds a couple of things. It's not over-writing nor changing anything to the vanilla content.

[newhampshirean]

Well, like I said, the problem disappeared when I stopped using those mods. I wasn't trying to troubleshoot it at the time (nobody responded to this thread for a while, and I never saw a similar issue elsewhere). I just happened to be starting a new game, so I culled some mods from my load order that I knew historically had been problematic. My game wasn't in shambles at that point or anything, but I had been experiencing crashing in combat and exteriors more frequently than I was used to. I was mainly just trying to reduce running scripts to simplify future troubleshooting.

 

So when the NPC/inventory problem didn't occur in this new game, I was glad, but I didn't have a concrete answer. And since I don't have a lot of time anymore to dedicate to testing (as well as having a limited know-how when it comes to scripting), I never went back to get that concrete answer.

 

However, it looks like oxman1's experience seems to corroborate my own. I never truly suspected Enhanced Blood Textures to be the issue, myself, despite it having it's own issues for some. And I'm aware that Swift Potion doesn't have overwrites; if Swift Potion is the culprit, it would be all in the scripting. It's par for the course when it comes to weird issues like this. My only theory (which doesn't mean much) is that it may have something to do with the JContainers SKSE plugin, as that dependency is the major difference in the new version of Swift Potion Reborn and I first encountered this after upgrading. (Yes, with a new save). Either way, since I didn't do the necessary follow-up at the time, I didn't go out and point the finger at Swift Potion.

 

Like I've said before: for all I know, it could be some strange, freak, unreproducible scripting problem. It could be an issue only possible when certain mods interact. Who knows? Papyrus logs never helped.

 

 

This is my load order. But since I don't have the problem with this LO, it's not really worth anything now.

 

 

 

Skyrim.esm

Update.esm

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp

Dawnguard.esm

Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp

HearthFires.esm

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp

Dragonborn.esm

Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp

Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm

ClimatesOfTamriel.esm

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm

HighResTexturePack01.esp

HighResTexturePack02.esp

HighResTexturePack03.esp

Cutting Room Floor.esp

FISS.esp

83Willows_101BUGS_V4_HighRes.esp

Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp

Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp

Weapons & Armor_TrueOrcish&DaedricWeapons.esp

ADS.esp

AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp

AFT_ManagedFollowerBoost.esp

AFT_NoFriendlySpellDamage.esp

Better Stealth AI for Followers.esp

Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp

aMidianBorn_ContentAddon.esp

Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp

Simple Magic Rebalance.esp

Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp

SkyrimCoinReplacerRedux.esp

Bring Out Your Dead.esp

Distant DetailHF.esp

SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp

Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp

RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp

SDO Full-LOD - Waterfall Effects.esp

Point The Way.esp

FarmhouseChimneys.esp

FarmhouseChimneysCRF.esp

RealisticWaterTwo.esp

AOS.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp

AOS2_CoT3_1_patch.esp

DeadlySpellImpacts.esp

DeadlyCombat.esp

Immersive Weapons.esp

Combat Evolved - Core.esp

BlockSparkles.esp

Traps Are Dangerous.esp

Appropriately Attired Jarls Redux.esp

Auto Unequip Ammo.esp

Beards.esp

DFB - Random Encounters.esp

WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp

Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp

BFT Ships and Carriages.esp

Brows.esp

CCO_SIC_Patch.esp

High Level Enemies.esp

CCO_WAFTrueWeapons_Patch.esp

Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp

Chesko_WearableLantern.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp

Combat Evolved - Enemy Poison.esp

Convenient Horses.esp

CoT-WeatherPatch.esp

Supreme Storms - Cot Version.esp

CoT-WeatherPatch_DB.esp

ExpandedSnowSystems-CoT.esp

CoT-WeatherPatch_ESS.esp

CoT-WeatherPatch_NL3.esp

CoT-WeatherPatch_Snow-10.esp

CoT-WeatherPatch_SupStorms.esp

dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp

Dead Body Collision.esp

BellyachesNewDragonSpecies_FactionlessDragons.esp

DeadlyDragons.esp

Disease Descriptions_RND Compatibile.esp

Dragon Combat Overhaul.esp

Dragon Soul Relinquishment.esp

DragonShoutVoice.esp

Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp

Elemental Staves.esp

EnchantedArsenal.esp

Paralyze.esp

Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp

ESS Patch for CoT DG Patch.esp

ExplosiveBoltsVisualized.esp

GQJ_DG_vampireamuletfix.esp

HarvestOverhaul.esp

High Level Enemies - Dawnguard.esp

High Level Enemies - Dragonborn.esp

SkyTEST-RealisticAnimalBehavior.esp

IHSS.esp

iHUD.esp

RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp

Run For Your Lives.esp

SkyrimImprovedPuddles-DG-HF-DB.esp

SDO Full-LOD - Whiterun Trundra Creeks.esp

SFO - Dragonborn.esp

Immersive Patrols II.esp

Chesko_Frostfall.esp

Stealth Skills Rebalanced_COMPLETE.esp

CCO_Frostfall_Patch.esp

1nivWICCloaks.esp

Morning Fogs.esp

Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp

Unique Grasses.esp

SkyUI.esp

Hunterborn.esp

PilgrimsDelight.esp

The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp

Gildergreen Regrown.esp

SDO Full-LOD - Giant Campfires.esp

Hunterborn_Frostfall-Patch.esp

Hunterborn_RND-Patch.esp

Hunterborn_WearableLantern-Patch.esp

imp_helm_legend.esp

Invisibility Eyes Fix.esp

Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Climates of Tamriel - lvl-3.esp

Lock Overhaul.esp

MagicArmorVisuals.esp

mintylightningmod.esp

MintyLightningMod_COT_Patch.esp

MoonGlow.esp

Moss Rocks.esp

Moss Rocks_DB.esp

moveitLWT.esp

NonEssentialChildren.esp

ORM-Arvak.esp

Poison Skills Enhanced - high.esp

EnhancedCharacterEdit.esp

CharacterMakingExtender.esp

RaceMenu.esp

RaceMenuPlugin.esp

Rainbows.esp

randomthunder.esp

RealisticRoomRental-Basic.esp

ShootingStars.esp

Smelter_Riften & Solitude.esp

Smithing Perks Overhaul_Remade.esp

Soul Gems Differ.esp

SPTConsistentOlderPeople.esp

Thieves Guild Requirements.esp

TradeBarter.esp

Serana.esp

vAutosaveManager.esp

Watercolor_for_ENB_RWT_RND.esp

When Vampires Attack.esp

Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp

Bijin Warmaidens.esp

BORGAKH1a.esp

FCO - Follower Commentary Overhaul.esp

SkyCompleteLegendary.esp

STEP Combined PluginHF.esp

Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp

FarmhouseChimneysLAL.esp

EnhancedLightsandFX.esp

ELFX - Exteriors.esp

ELFX - Dawnguard.esp

ELFX - Dragonborn.esp

ELFXEnhancer.esp

TES5Edit Merged Patch.esp

Bashed Patch, 0.esp

ASIS-Dependency.esp

ASIS.esp

Edited March 14, 2015 by newhampshirean