Fallout 4 Optimization and Performance Systems Explained

[VIitS]

Im curious what you guys say about scrapping STAT objects?

 

Does the following apply:

 

Only disabling or moving items will break precombines

 

to this:

 

I can see that many workshopScrapRecipe_XXX records include STAT objects while scrapping some STAT will brake PreCombines and else. Most of the STAT object are [Placed Objects] and thus shouldnt be touched at all, while some of them are not BUT only in the settlement cell(s). I assume in order to gain the most performance out of the engine most of the world is PreComined/PreVis and only the objects (but not all) in a settlement cells arent.

 

I found some STAT objects which can be scrapped by vanilla already which decrease performance which in turn place alot of "???" around my head, since it doesnt make any sense, more likely it seems this game was either finished in a rush or the communication/knowledge about certain stuff was not 100%. whatever its very weird.

 

That was an oversimplification. Any edits to existing [Placed Objects] REFRs will break precombineds. The game compares the Version Control Info 1 (VCI1) value (in the record header in xEdit) to the PCMB subrecord in the containing CELL. If the VCI1 value is None*, or has a more recent date, precombineds and previs will be broken in that area.

 

In any case, that was talking about normal mod making. When generating precombineds (and previs), there are many things that can cause a record to be excluded form precombineds. Being the created object in a recipe seems to cause them to be excluded if, and only if, they are in a settlement, while letting them still be precombined outside settlements. There are a number of other things that will exclude REFRs from generation as well, such as any linked reference and some others that are not coming to mind at the moment.

 

If you want more up to date info, you can check out the PRP channels on the Collective Modding discord (linked in the description of PRP) or the Precombineds and previs channel on the xEdit discord (discord button in the top right within xEdit).

 

*happens if you copied the record in xEdit, since xEdit intentionally wipes that value when copying a record.

[Lemecc]

Hope it's all right to hop in this thread with a question - though before I do, a massive thanks to everyone who has contributed information here and elsewhere. I couldn't have ever even started without all your volunteered time and documentation.

 

I've been following several different mod author's tutorials on settlement making (especially SKK50's excellent articles), with generally no real trouble - however, I've always made interior settlements. Only one cell, one precombine pass, one previs pass. Fairly simple, zero issues. I'm finally cutting my teeth on a couple of exterior settlements following all the same processes, and now I'm facing huge problems I've not faced before; the previs for the exterior ends up botched every single time.

No matter what I do, I'll load up the mod to test it (on a clean vanilla-only load order, no loose files except the exact ones I'm using for the mod), console near the area to approach it "naturally", and find that once I get into the cells, they flicker like mad. Just about every part of the precombine is invisible or flickering in and out, and even some parts that aren't part of the precombine are doing so too. I've tried to do this I think eight or nine times now, fully wiping the precombine/previs and loose files with FO4edit each time to start from scratch. I've tried generating previs for each current modified cell, and I even tried generating previs for all loaded cells in one desperate attempt. The two most successful attempts still ended up with a chunk of the non-precombined objects invisible - perfectly interactive, but fully invisible (the same items each time, if that means anything). I've also tried a version where it was all packed into an archive and the loose files deleted. Nothing has worked.

 

As fun as it is to blame CK, I also know most mistakes are user-error, and I feel like there must be something I'm not understanding or missing about the process particularly in regards to exterior settlements. Any of you more experienced folk got an idea of where I'm going wrong? Much appreciated!

[lee3310]

Hope it's all right to hop in this thread with a question - though before I do, a massive thanks to everyone who has contributed information here and elsewhere. I couldn't have ever even started without all your volunteered time and documentation.

 

I've been following several different mod author's tutorials on settlement making (especially SKK50's excellent articles), with generally no real trouble - however, I've always made interior settlements. Only one cell, one precombine pass, one previs pass. Fairly simple, zero issues. I'm finally cutting my teeth on a couple of exterior settlements following all the same processes, and now I'm facing huge problems I've not faced before; the previs for the exterior ends up botched every single time.

No matter what I do, I'll load up the mod to test it (on a clean vanilla-only load order, no loose files except the exact ones I'm using for the mod), console near the area to approach it "naturally", and find that once I get into the cells, they flicker like mad. Just about every part of the precombine is invisible or flickering in and out, and even some parts that aren't part of the precombine are doing so too. I've tried to do this I think eight or nine times now, fully wiping the precombine/previs and loose files with FO4edit each time to start from scratch. I've tried generating previs for each current modified cell, and I even tried generating previs for all loaded cells in one desperate attempt. The two most successful attempts still ended up with a chunk of the non-precombined objects invisible - perfectly interactive, but fully invisible (the same items each time, if that means anything). I've also tried a version where it was all packed into an archive and the loose files deleted. Nothing has worked.

 

As fun as it is to blame CK, I also know most mistakes are user-error, and I feel like there must be something I'm not understanding or missing about the process particularly in regards to exterior settlements. Any of you more experienced folk got an idea of where I'm going wrong? Much appreciated!

Welcome to previs hell. What works for me is to select each cell individually, generate precombines for current cell... after that, select a central cell, make sure every edited cell is loaded then generate precombined visibility for loaded area.

Save your plugin before generating previs and repeat the process until it works.

[Lemecc]

Welcome to previs hell. What works for me is to select each cell individually, generate precombines for current cell... after that, select a central cell, make sure every edited cell is loaded then generate precombined visibility for loaded area.

Save your plugin before generating previs and repeat the process until it works.

Oh no, this is what I was afraid of! I had read that previs can just fail, for no real reason, and you have to continue trying over and over again until it inexplicably works. I was hoping for user error, since if I'm the one who made a mistake, then that's fixable, but looks like I need to sit and brute force CK for however long it takes. Previs Hell indeed.

 

I'll try your method, I haven't actually combined current and loaded in one try yet, so here's hoping it finally works! Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

Edit: Not sure what the policy on double-posting is, so I'll update here. Thanks so much for the advice, doing things your exact way allowed me to recreate those two more successful attempts, much appreciated. Wasted my Saturday trying over and over again, but I'm nearly there now. The place now mostly works! It's the closest it's been so naturally I've taken a hard backup at this point.

I'm still getting invisible objects, but I don't think it's the usual previs issue - they're not flickering. A small number of furniture items and containers are invisible. Still interactable, still scrappable, but permanently invisible. They have not been changed from their base-game counterparts, other than being pulled out of the precombine.

 

I vaguely understand that in interior cells, Room Markers can be to blame for this, but this is an exterior cell, and I'm not able to find any explanation for it in my searching.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Lemecc

[PJMail]

I have some previs cluster that always fail (they get to somewhere in the 29%-49% range and then the CK gives up).

You get a message in the log saying "ERROR: visibility task did not complete".

This occurs with the GUI and commandline. Repeating it makes no difference...
If anyone tracks it down to a certain set of conditions/references I would love to know.

 

 

And one possible reason Invisible objects can occur is if the overrides on the effected cells (by the previs build operation) are lost/overriden.
This is because any object referenced by the XPRI section in the CELL will not be rendered (i.e. invisible) - as it is supposed to be rendered via the Previs (occlusion Culling) process. The Previs generation process adds this XPRI information (as well as the VISI date) to every cell Previs is created for.
If this is overriden/lost (by load order etc) then the wrong objects may be made invisible.

[greekrage]

Method ive used for my last 15-20 locations without fail is ...

 

a) precombined geometry for each edited cell ... (current cell ) in a an order i can remember ...(basically always look north and start from left to right on the first row and then continue under that row with right to left and so on...basically in a S pattern..

b) SAVE ( i try to save every 4-5 cells while doing this process ...either way )..

 

c) precombined visibility again for each cell at a time...(current)...and use the same path as i did for precombs...Unless i have an issue with cells that are near by...

 

Note: when doing precombined visibility your ending point (last cell generated) matters if you have issues with neighboring cells... So if i have an issue with Abernathy while doing sanctuary i would make sure my last generation is at a cell furthest away from abernathy...

 

As far as using "loaded area " i dont recommend using it in real world cells (external )...because previs will reach out quite far and cause chaos with any other modded location near by...(example if you use in in sanctuary it will cover all of red rocket and half of Abernathy cells as well...)

Ill only use this method when im in a internal cell or new world space .

 

Ive used this method after many many other failed methods and find it works aside for the issues like stairs losing collision and needing a second run and the occasional issue with certain windows...

 

Note #2...

make sure you havent edited your game ini to disable precombines or that a mod you may have used has altered it....

[lee3310]

Method ive used for my last 15-20 locations without fail is ...

 

a) precombined geometry for each edited cell ... (current cell ) in a an order i can remember ...(basically always look north and start from left to right on the first row and then continue under that row with right to left and so on...basically in a S pattern..

b) SAVE ( i try to save every 4-5 cells while doing this process ...either way )..

 

c) precombined visibility again for each cell at a time...(current)...and use the same path as i did for precombs...Unless i have an issue with cells that are near by...

 

Note: when doing precombined visibility your ending point (last cell generated) matters if you have issues with neighboring cells... So if i have an issue with Abernathy while doing sanctuary i would make sure my last generation is at a cell furthest away from abernathy...

 

As far as using "loaded area " i dont recommend using it in real world cells (external )...because previs will reach out quite far and cause chaos with any other modded location near by...(example if you use in in sanctuary it will cover all of red rocket and half of Abernathy cells as well...)

Ill only use this method when im in a internal cell or new world space .

 

Ive used this method after many many other failed methods and find it works aside for the issues like stairs losing collision and needing a second run and the occasional issue with certain windows...

 

Note #2...

make sure you havent edited your game ini to disable precombines or that a mod you may have used has altered it....

Interesting, i remember trying generating previs for each cell in sanctuary but it always ended up causing problems, like disappearing objects when i get closer (the water tower e.g or some boulders).

"Generating precombined visibility for all loaded cells", is what worked for me you just have to pick a central cell (make sure all edited cells are loaded.)

But like you said, if it reaches a cell modded by another plugin, it will cause major conflicts.

[lee3310]

I have some previs cluster that always fail (they get to somewhere in the 29%-49% range and then the CK gives up).

You get a message in the log saying "ERROR: visibility task did not complete".

This occurs with the GUI and commandline. Repeating it makes no difference...

If anyone tracks it down to a certain set of conditions/references I would love to know.

 

 

And one possible reason Invisible objects can occur is if the overrides on the effected cells (by the previs build operation) are lost/overriden.

This is because any object referenced by the XPRI section in the CELL will not be rendered (i.e. invisible) - as it is supposed to be rendered via the Previs (occlusion Culling) process. The Previs generation process adds this XPRI information (as well as the VISI date) to every cell Previs is created for.

If this is overriden/lost (by load order etc) then the wrong objects may be made invisible.

Are they vanilla cells ? (interior/exterior ?) and did you add objects with custom nifs to them ?

[VIitS]

 

I'm still getting invisible objects, but I don't think it's the usual previs issue - they're not flickering. A small number of furniture items and containers are invisible. Still interactable, still scrappable, but permanently invisible. They have not been changed from their base-game counterparts, other than being pulled out of the precombine.

I vaguely understand that in interior cells, Room Markers can be to blame for this, but this is an exterior cell, and I'm not able to find any explanation for it in my searching.

 

Note: you can confirm if it is previs by using the tpc command in-game. That stands for toggle preculling, and will turn previs off/back on.

 

If they stay invisible, but you get a "previs enabled, but disabled in this area" message after the second use of tpc, that would mean something is causing the previs to not load, and thus you have some other occlusion method in that area that is causing the invisibility.

 

If they appear when you use tpc and the second use confirms it is working locally, then I would try adding the "non-occluder" flag to a couple base objects in the area and regenerating, especially anything like railings that mean you are looking through a single nif (also important when you have a small gap between two separate nifs, had an issue with that in Vault 88, between the cave wall and a vertical I beam at the entrance, just before the vault door). See the PRP* channel of the collective modding discord (link in description of PRP), or the precombineds/previs channel of the xEdit discord (discord link inside xEdit), for some fun that BenRierimanu and others have had with things occluding when they shouldn't :teehee:.

 

 

And yes, it sounds very much like bad room bounds, but as you said, you are in an exterior cell and room bounds/portals are only used in interior cells. Also, the room bounds/portals system is disabled when previs is active.

 

*PRP (Previsibines Repair Pack) is like the precombineds/previs version of UFO4P, because Arthmoor and co rightly took one look at the precombineds/previs systems and noped out.

[PJMail]

Thats interesting about issues with narrow gaps - is this a generic fault in the previs system or just a bug in 'our' version of the CK?

I don't remember seeing any such problems in the base game's Previs (though I may just have ignored it as 'yet another game bug')