Jump to content

Photo

[Discussion]Mod Amount Limit: Could it be overcome?

mod amount limit mod limit mod limit override

  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1
Klipperken

Klipperken

    Old hand

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 962 posts

The maximum amount of mods one could place in FO4 is 255.

This is a softwarematic hardcoded number.

 

What does this mean to you, can't you be bothered by this, or are you one of those maniacs that need tenfold that amount, as you gather every possible mod, good or bad, to test it, and when liked keep it?

Have another idea or feeling regarding this?

 

Well...

My thoughts.

 

Now, we can alter data.

For instance, we could change damage of the 10mm pistol.

Or the armor rate of the N-7 armour.

We can add NPC's, alter view distance, PoV, you name it.

 

I am bloody sure, we can also make a mod that would enable us to mod limitless.

The restriction is software, and through software we can alter the 'set' values.

After all, these values are no more than data, and specific directed injection to that data can override it.

 

I do not quite get why Beth figured it would be funny to give us this restriction, as in each game they released (based on this engine type) this given amount ALWAYS ran short.

 

Many complained about this.

And rightfully so, I would think.

If you allow users to mod, then why restrict them?

It makes no sense, but all modern game companies seem to be using this tactic.

Perfect example would be Suckstar with their GTA5.

"Oh, we do support single player modding, we almost encourage it."

But...

Single player is VERY limited.

Adding 2 missile weapon types already breaks the game...

TWO!!!

So, no matter what airplane or helicopter you add, you can only use the given missiles once you added 2 uniques with their own weapon systems.

 

Still, MANY of the boundaries in GTA5 have been broken today.

Adding cars now virtually is limitless, we can add weapons where before we could only replace them, and these limits were also hardcoded.

And these can be overridden, I am sure...

 

I am waiting for some genius to break the limits for Fallout and TES games, as i am stuck with the limit, and FAR too many mods that need be installed...

I am sure that day will come, eventually.

 

What you?

 

Respond, but please keep it civil.

Thank you very much.

 

Klip.



#2
Ethreon

Ethreon

    Hobo Feral

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,998 posts

Got access to the bethesda engine level coding? No..? Then you won't solve this. Use .esl files if you have such issues with plugin amounts.



#3
Jannifer

Jannifer

    dragon goddess

  • Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,651 posts

The tools released to mod Skyrim, Skyrim SE and Fallout 4 specifically restrict access to the game code on a deeper level.  What they edit are the records for the various statics, actives, characters, buildings and so on.  You can also edit/script certain functions.  However, when you start looking at changing the actual game code, then it opens up a whole 'nother can of worms.  Such things are seldom a matter of going in and just changing a random number somewhere.  The number of files the game loads has a direct effect on stability and playability.  If you try to load in more information than the program can handle, it will throw up its hands, say "You're an idiot!" and stomp out of the room to go sulk somewhere.  Also, remember that games are not built to run on the latest, greatest, fastest, best computer being built.  They're built so that they'll run on your parents' four-year-old rig or your four-year-old rig, as the case may be.  The idea is to widen their market share, not limit it.

 

The easiest thing to do is simply work around the limit by using .esl files or, for the older games, combining mods as many of us do.  *shrug*



#4
PoorlyAged

PoorlyAged

    \

  • Account closed
  • PipPipPip
  • 645 posts

Actually, the 255 limit is architectural and the actual number is 256 because the count starts at 0.  

 

Forms are used to reference every unique entity in the game (items, locations, NPCs, lists, etc).  The identifier for a form is a 32 bit string represented in the hexadecimal format xxyyyyyy.  The yyyyyy is a unique number assigned by the Creation Kit or Xeditor when the form is created.  The XX is the load sequence of the files of the game and is a two character hexadecimal representation of a eight bit binary number.  As the two previous posters have pointed out, the game engine is where the load sequence numbers are assigned.  To increase the number of files which can be loaded one would need to modify the underlying architecture of the basic game engine and redesign it to support a larger number of files.  

 

Now, some reality.  The first file is always the base game, in this case Fallout 4; and it's sequence number is 0.  That is then followed by any of the DLC and patch files.  For Fallout 4 with all DLC you have the base game (0), Automatron (1), Contraptions  Workshop(2), Far Harbor(3), Wasteland Workshop(4), Vault Tec Workshop(5) ,Nuka World (6),  and the High Resolution Pack(7) .  That is eight slots used already, so there are only 248 actual slots remaining for mods. 



#5
Ethreon

Ethreon

    Hobo Feral

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,998 posts

Let's not forget that most users cannot load 256 plugins without completely breaking the game or the performance.



#6
Klipperken

Klipperken

    Old hand

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 962 posts

@Jannifer: How so: "They're built so that they'll run on your parents' four-year-old rig or your four-year-old rig, as the case may be.  The idea is to widen their market share, not limit it."?

Having a higher possibility of mounting mods does not automatically mean you HAVE to mount that many.
Or is it?

 

@all others: thank you for the information.

 

Is this limit the same for 64bit systems?

If not, Beth could for example make a 64bit system out of the old 32bit?

Would this solve the issue?

 

Thank you all for replying.
Most appreciated.  :)

 

Klip.



#7
Reneer

Reneer

    Old hand

  • Premium Member
  • 3,890 posts
The mod limit is the same for both 32 bit and 64 bit systems / games. To increase the limit would require Bethesda to, basically, completely rewrite the game engine.

Edited by Reneer, 09 April 2018 - 02:58 PM.


#8
payl0ad

payl0ad

    Faithful poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,181 posts

Or, you know, use a long 64 bit integer instead of a regular 32 bit int for the formID value. That's not a total engine rewrite. The difference between SSE and Oldrim is a better example, they changed the rendering API from DX9 to DX11, compiled for X64 and that was more or less everything. Well, that is, as long as they don't have obscure bit-level voodoo code that only works on 32 bit ints.


Edited by payl0ad, 09 April 2018 - 05:51 PM.


#9
Reneer

Reneer

    Old hand

  • Premium Member
  • 3,890 posts

Or, you know, use a long 64 bit integer instead of a regular 32 bit int for the formID value. That's not a total engine rewrite. The difference between SSE and Oldrim is a better example, they changed the rendering API from DX9 to DX11, compiled for X64 and that was more or less everything. Well, that is, as long as they don't have obscure bit-level voodoo code that only works on 32 bit ints.

I was being hyperbolic. It would still require a major rewrite and teardown of the engine. They would need to switch to something like Base64, which would give a new mod total of 64,512 (//) while keeping the same-size FormIDs, but would require them to rewrite all the code that previously used hexademical. It wouldn't be a complete rewrite, but it would be a not-insignificant amount of time to change everything, make sure they didn't break anything in the process, etc. Going from DX9 to DX11 is a much easier process because you have a well documented set of standards (MSDN is amazing) and the support of Microsoft.


Edited by Reneer, 10 April 2018 - 05:21 AM.


#10
THEvaledgamer

THEvaledgamer

    Enthusiast

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 168 posts
Noob here, just started playing on PC less then a month ago. When you say max is 255 mods do you mean 255 plug ins? Because I have over 280 mods active but only around 220 plug ins active. Does that make a difference?





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: mod amount limit, mod limit, mod limit override

Page loaded in: 0.975 seconds