Whats up with the Dragon Priests?

[marciosilva]

Thanks all for the tips :)

 

What does really annoys is not the fact that a boss being difficult, but a boss being impossible to defeat, when that boss appears while the player is not ready for it. I think it breaks gameplay a little bit, but not too much tough.

 

My char is lvl 28 by now, and I do feel some mobs are getting easier to kill. I'm waiting to get the next lich to see how it goes... :biggrin:

[Systex]

How can you have trouble killing a dragon priest? imo they're quite easy to kill as long as you use magic and arrows, and of course take cover. Just snipe the bastard 'til he's dead. Unless you're a high level, rushing in with your sword and shied is most likely gonna get you killed, especially when you're playing on expert/master difficulty.

 

And if you're a warrior type, you most likely have some skill in archery, so just take cover and snipe 'em. If you're in a small dungeon room with barely any cover, you can use potions and rush in with your shield and interrupt their spells.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Systex

[marciosilva]

My character is a heavy armor user, with a greatsword. The only real usefull spell she uses is Restore Health. Arrows? Don't use them, I can't aim very well, specially a moving lich. Besides, my nord is no archer. She specd in heavy armor, weapon improvement and a bit of restoration spells, so I can save my health pots for emergencies (just as fighting a dragon priest).

[RedRavyn]

@ Systex: Don't assume that everyone plays the game like you do. Not all of us go for the Jack-Of-All-Trades character. Some of us actually role-play our characters, and they have specifically designed strengths and weaknesses, and even ways of dealing with problems. Just because you're playing a "warrior" doesn't mean you're going to be proficient with a bow. As marciosilva intimated, sometimes a "tank" is just that -- a tank. In Real Life warriors of ancient times were specialists. Front line troops had no proficiency with archery. Archers had very little, if any, proficiency with melee weapons. It's really not that much different in modern times, either. Only in games can you become good at everything that there is to do, and some of us just don't buy that bit of un-realism.

 

@ thompsonar: I think you make a good point regarding earlier bosses in the game being more challenging than the main boss at the end of the game. I'm really not sure how much I like this, although it is certainly true for the most of the few video games I've played. I have to wonder if this is some kind of inborn glitch in the psychological makeup of game developers, or if they're just trying to make their games easy to "end". Heck, at-level in Borderlands the final boss is actually the easiest boss in the game to defeat! It's not quite that bad in Skyrim, since Alduin can be a challenge, but he's not really all that challenging when compared to a few of the earlier boss encounters.

 

A Dragon Priest is arbitrarily tough, though. These were people who supposedly served dragons. Served? You mean like for dinner? I don't think there's a named Dragon Priest in the game that couldn't have Alduin for a snack, so who really served who back then? These guys are, in my opinion, a perfect example of how not to design a game. Shearpoint, in particular, is an issue because it's the only dragon lair that is guarded by a Dragon Priest and you can get sent there very early in the game on a bounty quest to kill the dragon. A first-time player is going to get totally owned if that happens, through no fault of the player. Yes, it's possible to kill the dragon and then get away before Krosis can "activate" and begin engaging you, but once he's up it becomes impossible for a low-level character to acquire the shout at the Word Wall before defeating him. This simply might not be possible for many players.

 

I have mixed feelings about leveled games. I have mixed feelings about non-leveled games. My feelings are in total chaos regarding games that combine leveled encounters with non-leveled encounters. We need some consistency for playability. Dragon Priests are a blight in this game -- not from the player-character perspective but from a game-design perspective because they make some quests almost impossible to complete until the player attains a moderately high level and has good custom-crafted and enchanted gear. This isn't a bad thing of itself. What makes it bad is that there are no safeguards in the game to prevent quests from sending the Dovahkiin to his almost certain death at the hands of a Dragon Priest. This is poor game design.

 

As a veteran player of Skyrim (at least I think thirteen playthroughs qualify me for that) I know what to expect from most of the bosses, including Dragon Priests. I know I'm not really "role-playing" (which is my "big thing" in this game) when I prepare ahead of time for such encounters, but I guess I have to take a little license and sometimes not play my character to the hilt -- just to insure I have a fighting chance. That irks me, so I can imagine how frustrating and even anger-inducing it must be for newer players to be constantly getting their heads handed to them by opponents they don't expect to be un-beatable at their character's level of experience.

 

Don't get me wrong. "I love a challenge" (how many times have we heard that in the game?), but no-win scenarios are deal-breakers for most players and can quickly a sour a player to an entire franchise of games. Dragon Priests could be sequestered from the player until he gets his character around level 25 - 35 by making them parts of quests that cannot even be started until you get to a certain level. There are already quests like this in the game, after all. Just something to think about, on the off-chance that Bethesda developers ever actually read anything that people say on any forum but Bethesda's own.

[kevkiev]

... These were people who supposedly served dragons. Served? You mean like for dinner? ...

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[SubjectProphet]

"Why are they so godlike?" BECAUSE THEY ARE GODLIKE??????!!!!!!!!

[Systex]

TL;DR

Anyways, completely agree with the post above me.

[Arkayjiya]

Don't get me wrong. "I love a challenge" (how many times have we heard that in the game?), but no-win scenarios are deal-breakers for most players and can quickly a sour a player to an entire franchise of games. Dragon Priests could be sequestered from the player until he gets his character around level 25 - 35 by making them parts of quests that cannot even be started until you get to a certain level. There are already quests like this in the game, after all. Just something to think about, on the off-chance that Bethesda developers ever actually read anything that people say on any forum but Bethesda's own.

 

Completely disagree with this. What's the point of having an open world if you're not sometimes confronted to an impossible (or nearly impossible) situation? A quest is impossible for your melee character at his level? Just come back later, that's the whole point of an open rpg (which they're ruining with too much leveling of the monsters ><).

If the player is always confronted to challenges at its level, there is no feeling of progression. I like having my ass kicked in such a way I know I can't deal with the menace for now. It happened to my pure warrior when I met my first dragon (with the mod mighty dragon installed), I just fled from the tower since there was no way I could win. I came back far later (10 level later) and I had an amazingly cool fight, hard but still doable, showing me how much I evolved since the last time. And RP speaking, I just assumed the dragon attacked several times and was each time pushed back but not defeated by the whiterun guard until I returned and finally killed it.

[Stemin]

 

Completely disagree with this. What's the point of having an open world if you're not sometimes confronted to an impossible (or nearly impossible) situation? A quest is impossible for your melee character at his level? Just come back later, that's the whole point of an open rpg (which they're ruining with too much leveling of the monsters ><).

If the player is always confronted to challenges at its level, there is no feeling of progression. I like having my ass kicked in such a way I know I can't deal with the menace for now. It happened to my pure warrior when I met my first dragon (with the mod mighty dragon installed), I just fled from the tower since there was no way I could win. I came back far later (10 level later) and I had an amazingly cool fight, hard but still doable, showing me how much I evolved since the last time. And RP speaking, I just assumed the dragon attacked several times and was each time pushed back but not defeated by the whiterun guard until I returned and finally killed it.

 

I agree with the above. I hear a lot of people complaining that the game is "broken" because once you get to a high level it's too easy. I think this is a crap attitude. I spend close to 300 hours to properly get a character up to around level 75+. My character SHOULD be god-like after spending that much time developing it. However, it would be nice to also have just a few enemies that were actually tough when I'm running around at level 81.

 

In contrast I don't want enemies that level so close to me that every fight is an exhausting challenge. I was reading the "do you like skyrim's fight system" thread and the short answer is yes. It's fun. I don't care that it doesn't have a dodge system or complex button combos. It's simple and it works. Could it be improved? Sure. But it's fun, and the great thing about it is it appeals to so many different play styles. There's too many purists on this board that think they have to WASD and TES is first person only... blah blah blah blah.

 

I play third person if I'm roaming and meleeing, and I switch to first person if I need to see details, fire my bow, or cast spells. I love the fact that the game lets me do these things.

 

The term "broken" really is a pet peeve of mine because it's not broken just because certain people don't think it should work that way. In the same way that people were saying the fps issues on PS3 were "game breaking" . I logged 400 hours on PS3 before they resolved it. It sucked, but the game definitely could be played and enjoyed.

 

To me, the most frustrating combat aspect is magic which IMHO, is nowhere near the power level of a simple melee character. I have yet to figure out how to play a pure mage character and not use a follower for a tank. I feel like you shouldn't have to do that. And I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it certainly isn't easy... whereas if I'm playing melee or archer or even a sneak thief, I don't NEED a follower the way I do with a magic user.

 

Lastly, IIRC, Krosis DOES level with the player, but his base level is 14 and goes up from there. I think I read that on UESP. And TC, once you beat him you're gonna be looking back on this thread and laughing. It's actually cool that this one dragon actually has a dragon priest watching over him. It's just one more unique area in the game.

[RedRavyn]

@ Stemin: According to the uesp the named Dragon Priests are Krosis, Morokei, Nahkriin, Otar the Mad, Rahgot, Vokun, and Volsung. All of them are listed as Level 50. No range. No leveling with the player. They are level-locked at "50". I don't know where you read that they level with the player, but I can't find that reference on the uesp wiki. I don't pull numbers out of thin air. I do my research on things like this before I put my thoughts into writing. If those thoughts regarding Krosis are wrong, then blame the uesp wiki page on him. You can read it for yourself right here: http://www.uesp.net/..._%28creature%29

 

As for your opinion of what constitutes "broken", I'm afraid a lot of people disagree with you. The game is supposed to allow for player progression up to level 100. If, at level 50 it becomes so non-challenging that it loses its "fun" for a significant proportion of the players then the game is "broken" in the sense that it doesn't work like it should work. I don't care if you've gotten to level 100 or not. If you aren't challenged by the game, if you can one-shot every opponent you take on, and no opponent can inflict significant damage on you, then to most people the game isn't living up to its potential. Maybe you enjoy such play. From the comments I've read, though, you're in a minority. Most of us want to be challenged at all levels -- not just right out of Helgen.

 

Bethesda has a reputation for not creating games that level in a consistent and robust manner. In Oblivion, for instance, you can easily outstrip the ability of the game to keep up with you. With the emphasis upon crafting and enchanting in Skyrim, the situation is even worse. I should not have to install mods to make a game challenging at levels that the developers intended for it to be functional.

 

@ Any_ILL: Then we will have to agree to disagree. I don't mind getting my butt whipped on occasion. However, the game, itself, will assign you to do something as part of a questline that you are unable to complete because the opposition is too overwhelming. I'm not talking about things you choose to do. I'm talking about things you're told to do by whatever person is giving the orders (i.e. the Jarl in the cited case of a bounty that sends you somewhere). This is wrong. It's poor game design, plain and simple. Just stumbling upon Krosis at level 5, for instance, should be a challenge -- maybe even be impossible. However, for a "bounty quest" to send you there before you're capable of defeating Krosis is inane. For one thing, it means you can't complete that quest and that means you can't EVER get another bounty quest from that hold until such time as you level up enough to be able to complete it. Like I said. Bad game design.