Computer compatibility questions

[Skinjack]

After doing a little research I found the connection isn't USB as I think of it (think old school USB). That's why I thought it would create a bottleneck there. It actually looks more the the connections for my new smartphone so my hopes of using one with this PC are pretty much dashed. Thought I could save a bit of money for now by using that along with a different type of sealed liquid cooled cpu/gpu cooling system to stave off having to spend thousands on the PC I want. No such luck I guess.

 

Like you, I used to be much more into this stuff. I was going with the Aorus harddrive because because it said it did somewhere around 5000 MBs for sequential read/write, although an article I was reading said the Samsung Pro version was going to be rated 7000 MBs. I don't think it has ever reached what that article said, though. 3500MBs like your does is still quite a bit higher than the 550MBs my older SSD runs.

 

I've been informed by my wife (after I priced Digital Storm for the PC I wanted) that I was dreaming and to try about half that amount. I live with a killjoy. I have actually seen a few builds that I want in that price range I could "live" with, but they don't include things like the mobo I want (just recently found the MSI Godlike - now I want one - 4 NVMe slots :) ), the NVMe, or the cooling, but I guess I could add that stuff slowly after I got what I needed as long as I got a compatible mobo. I no longer work in IT like I did when I got this computer because I needed the power, so my wife draws the line at 5-6K on a PC for a game. Couldn't even use the old standby "future upgradability" speech on her. I really need to upgrade my wife while I'm at it. :)

[Indio21]

What happened to "pliable" lol. About like cold plastic huh, there is a point. Yeah those are just mini usb connectors and most likely even slower. You know you might just be shooting yourself in the foot with the vcard. When I said 8 Gb on all I read with people pushing the 4K and higher textures are not even really working it because of the game engine. As it was "pieced" together of both the old 32 bit and new 64 bit platform it is not stable to run them excessively. I have really high hopes when Beth comes out with ES VI they take into consideration that the world of modding is why they are still selling versions of these games to people more than a decade after their release and makes a suitable platform. But found enough reading on them not to hold my breath, lol.

 

Considering that for the "future upgradability" most likely one would still be very safe with 8 Gb of vram. Now do know I know nothing about other large modded games as FO4 and such, but if one like FO4 came out after SSE and does use a full 64 bit platform and no modders there are using up 8 Gb of vram, might be over kill for a hobby/gaming pc. Remembering prices some on vcards going from an 8 to an 11 has to be at least a grand or more. That's a lot of pennies that might play better elsewhere.

 

With my builds I also try to not over factor "upgradeability" for the exact reasons like with when I discovered the M.2 socket. Had I planned for that MB to be able to handle something like an the i5 I have now, I never would have been able to justify the expense for a new MB with the M.2 socket which most likely would not let me run the DDR4 RAM that I do. Technology in this stuff moves so dang fast one could build the latest tech pc and two years later there is better. Keeping my builds kind of border line to my usage allows me to upgrade a little sooner and move with tech like that instead of 10 plus year jumps. Also why I reuse misc things like the case, etc if possible.

 

Now with borderline I mean I shoot for an average of a 60 to around 70% +/- usage of said hardware during "good" working use. Again, I am always thinking about the bang so that means the longevity. As an ex. I don't want to see components running a 80% plus usage during that "good" working use as when I do need to really work it I am pushing the upper borders. Like shifting a manual trans. If one shifts at a normal say 1700 to 2300 RPMs that engine and components will last much much longer than one shifting at 3000 plus rpms every time.

 

Just food for thought. Also hope I am not coming across like I am talking down to you. One never knows one's level of knowledge in areas so I just work from a basic explanation up so hopefully I am clearly explaining and not talking over their heads.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Indiao21

[Indio21]

Also if your considering having one built for you I would look into a small local pc shop. Biggest reason is the quality of their work is how they stay in biz. Another they are X amount from the front door if a problem should develop. Depending on how they do things you or they will have the warranties for all said components and the good shops usually and should warranty "their" work.

 

I grew up in a real rural area so my friend had all the economy with it on people's wages, etc. When I said the "mad scientist" thing is because we would do quite a few used builds for people wanting one a little more robust and sqeeky new clean. My friend would always take in the used pcs towards X for the new one. Whether actually completely new or just new to the purchaser. As an ex. if one pc had a good better cpu and another MB ran it an more ram etc we combined them. Clean everything up both physically and digitally whipping everything extremely throughly, and load up a new OS etc. Then he had most the OS updates on disks so that went fairly fast was just tracking down the drivers, installing, and updating that took the time. He then warranty the work for 90 days on a used system and if anything did fail as in a component because none came back when we did for the work then he'd replace it with another used one under the warranty. Then he'd do the 50% of labor costs for them for X long as long as it was the pc we put together with all said components. Plus we'd jazz them up some if we had lighted fans, etc laying about. Now don't think one can hardly buy a fan that doesn't have lights. The changing of times lol.

 

Then we also had the completely new ones. About once a month he'd order and go to places like MicroCenter and stock the store so when someone wanted that new gaming machine he just asked basically how tough. Then if memory served me right he'd warranty 100% of the work for the first 90 days. Even if it was a component failure from manufacturing his labor was warrantied. After that he gave a 50% warranty on his labor for the duration of the components warranty. IF it was built with HIS recommended components and or everything was negotiated up front for the build. This was just for "custom builds" as we called it then.

 

When we'd get together for a weekend we'd bang out a few pcs of the used ones and a few levels of gaming type pcs so one could just walk in and say "I want that one" and go home and play. I am sure you are getting the feel for why I say a "mom and pop" type place over an employed biz like Best Buy, etc. Another great reason is they live in this world were we loose site of where tech really is for opinions and recommendations. Like I said I build my own and I used to just do this in my twenties for some fun. We'd bench test them and all even and especially the used ones so people knew what they got. If I did not have the time etc to build one this is exactly the type of place I would let build me one! Hope it helps

[JimmyRJump]

Only 'technology' from recent years (recent meaning the last ten years or so) that isn't available any longer for home computers because it died a silent death before it could mature is SAS hard drives. SAS is an ameliorated protocol of the SATA protocol. You can still get SAS drives but there's no ATX motherboards that have the SAS protocol. There's still server racks that can hold 'em and some server motherboards, but for mainstream you can forget it. Personally I'm grieved by this as I have several Seagate Constellation SAS drives I cannot use on my current 470X motherboard and those drives carried a hefty price ($600 for a 4TB disk in 2012) which is now a waste of serious money for me.

 

For 3D rendering and CAD on a home computer you'd better look at AMD processors as they're out of this world concerning speed. Not the regular Ryzen CPUs but the Threadripper ones. No Intel CPU comes near.

[Skinjack]

Nope. Not an issue. Talking with you like this is fine. I had a stroke a few years back, and I find I constantly need to be reminded of things I already knew. Kind of an "Oh yeah" moment for me. The light bulb doesn't shine as brightly as it did before. Should of insisted I didn't remember how to use a vacuum when I got out of the hospital.

 

And I will probably settle for the cheaper, less powerful computer, I just don't want to tell the wife that until I know the expensive one is a no-go. If I can't hassle her, what use do I have in life, right:? :laugh: I guess I'm waiting on that pity-give-in. Happens more often than you would think. Especially after my stroke. I know. I'm evil. :devil: Maybe I can wear her down to meeting me halfway.

 

Yeah, Bethesda really didn't do us PC'ers good on this game. You'd hope they would figure out where they get their bread and butter, but like you said I'm not holding my breath either.

 

I actually downloaded a mod called Paramount - FPS Galore for Newrim. It basically removes a bunch of things in game that I really haven't noticed them missing yet, as well as a few fixes and optimizations. I haven't crashed since I loaded it, so fingers crossed. I have Whiterun way over-modded and always used to freeze up or CTD walking through the exterior but so far nothing bad. And I didn't pick all of the optimizations yet, so maybe I can squeeze a little life out of this computer yet. Just need to stop downloading stuff. 670 active mods is probably more than good enough.

[Skinjack]

Hey JimmyRJump, thanks for that. I had considered AMD because they are usually cheaper, but I never knew they were better for CAD and rendering. I still use an old version of SolidWorks when I model weapons and then convert it in 3DSMax and optimize it. Yeah, I know. I should just learn all of Max instead of what I do. Right now I just have issues retaining new stuff. Before the stroke I'm fine. After it... eh. Maybe I'm just getting old(er). :smile:

I did some work with our server when I was doing IT, but I think they were just regular harddrives not SAS. And we were running Ubuntu. My department head was a real freak about free software.

But I may have to rethink this whole AMD/Intel thing now. I've always used Intel because... I've always used Intel. Same with EVGA GTX GPU's. I have seen the Threadrippers and was especially keen on the number of processors some of them have. Probably overkill for my uses these days, but one can dream.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Skinjack

[Indio21]

Only 'technology' from recent years (recent meaning the last ten years or so) that isn't available any longer for home computers because it died a silent death before it could mature is SAS hard drives. SAS is an ameliorated protocol of the SATA protocol. You can still get SAS drives but there's no ATX motherboards that have the SAS protocol. There's still server racks that can hold 'em and some server motherboards, but for mainstream you can forget it. Personally I'm grieved by this as I have several Seagate Constellation SAS drives I cannot use on my current 470X motherboard and those drives carried a hefty price ($600 for a 4TB disk in 2012) which is now a waste of serious money for me.

 

For 3D rendering and CAD on a home computer you'd better look at AMD processors as they're out of this world concerning speed. Not the regular Ryzen CPUs but the Threadripper ones. No Intel CPU comes near.

Hi Jimmy, glad to see you still around. Skinjack, Jimmy here is a great one to talk to on all this and especially with the textures now that he found your topic!! I don't want to come across like I am trying to commite him to something but if he speaks up it is well worth looking over well. Besides that his "straight to the point" humor is priceless in the am for a laugh your azz off start.

 

Thanks for the tip Jimmy as I used to run AMD and liked them. Just got worried a little when all the i7s hit the scene future tech might start to leave them behind. My little "future upgradeability" outlook lol. Will keep it in mind!

 

Skinjack, Jimmy works with LOTS of textures and if anyone could give an evaluation on what this sse engine will take he can! It was from his writings I learned of the short falls with the game engine using too many high K textures :wink: Not to mention he runs well over 700 mods successfully in his LO!

 

Also Skinjack, do not take me literal on the examples with my friends warranties. My point was just to try and show there is better options there. We documented everything and even the used ones and he preferred to handle the warranties for customers just to offer a better service. Keep it to drop off and pick up. So he discounted anything customers needed done that bought his pcs, such a pm work. It might be X amount to someone bringing one in and half that for one they bought of his. Truthfully I think he just hated wading through bloat ware and junk chasing down viruses and malware that come with Dells and the like. He did not offer discounts on those fixes as that has absolutely nothing to do with components OR work, that is an OE one lol. Plus now with everything being online with reviews to services the small biz survivor these days is probably exceptionally good at what they are doing if the doors are still open after a good duration!

Edited March 29, 2020 by Indiao21

[Skinjack]

I've seen Jimmy around on other forums offering advice. Its always been good (in my opinion) so he's one of the few people I usually pay attention to when I read what they have to say. Zanderat, Arthmoor, HadToRegister, mathy79... a few others. Kind of the royalty of modding. We've just never crossed paths before beyond my reading his posts.

I don't use high K textures. Mostly because of my graphics card, but also I run a 1920x1080 dual 27" monitor setup and I'm probably not going to get much benefit out of 4K+. I usually only download 2K if I don't have a smaller option.

[Indio21]

Ok, I just met him here when he helped me the few times. I just know he works with textures by the thousands from chatting with him and he's been "actively" in the pc scene for years as his writings indicate. Just if anyone could tell you if you'd ever be able to max a 8 Gb card on this game, and other games most likely, he can. Then you would for sure know how much vcard you need to plan for. I like to get my moneys worth but also don't want to run things at the ragged edge all the time and loose longevity either. Also at the same time what is really the point of owning a Porsche if you "can only" drive at 55 mph for its life. Meaning if I bought a 11 Gb one and after everything is loaded the game crashes or freezes because of the game engine and the vcard is running at 40% I am wasting at least 55% of it I paid to use :sad:. Sorry, but if I buy the Porsche I want to press the gas :smile:!!!

 

My 4 Gb card pushes the latest of all this software just fine and as I am sure you are aware the system requirements for such software has not gone down over the years. If it wasn't for getting addicted to modding I'd never be kicking my rear end for buying the 4 Gb. Probably wouldn't have shelled out the $$ for an 8, unless I found a deal which I always shop for, but definitely would have got the 6. Running said software on this machine keeps the vram right in the #s I like, but not for the mods :sad:. I have had to be very selective and why I slapped my hand to stop downloading until I finished conflict resolution on what I have. Then I plan to bump up the texture mod #s slowly checking the #s every step until I get it to the max I like, but the 6 would have made life much much easier with the ENB and such.

 

I have more than just Nordic and Skyland but basic ones expected as a grass mod, trees, etc but had to give up ones like 3D Trees and Plants, etc. Not to mention going through about a dozen ENBs too for one not to robust as my fps was falling through the floor. Just a 6 Gb would have made putting together a LO so much more user friendly I will say.

 

Just some tips.......If you plan for the things that you can reuse like the case, fans (even with liquid cooling I believe the rest of the components still need cooling. Never did a liquid cooled build yet), power supply, etc you can sqeek down the funds there some. My mistake was lack of research on towers. When the XBlades came out I just thought it looked really cool plus we got a great buy on a bunch from MC. By that I mean its air flow flaws. Either or that is my second build with that tower. Now I never skimp with fans if nothing else for the noise. I only updated 2 on this last build just for size and cfm.

 

Now this case is done for with this build but that MB will take up to at least an i7 and double the RAM than its got now, plus I may not have the newest DDR available in it most likely due to sales and such at the time needing 32 Gb for the CAD/CAM. Not to mention all the additional slots available in the MB. I got a great deal on the i5 because the length of time out on the i7s and if memory serves right the i9 was released so everyone wanted to clear shelf space. I really like to save when I can.

 

So with this little for sight for upgradability, I will update the cpu, cooling for it as I "get by" comfortably with the heat sink and fan it uses, the tower, and the video card of course lol on my next build. I planned for a larger power supply knowing what the MB could do at the max for the future. RAM requirements will be a "need to see" where games/software is at said time. Other than that, probably replace the oldest disk drive with a regular SATA cable SSD or just add it and keep using it for the "working" one of the disk drives. I like to keep the newer one for the backup. Either or I now have the flexibility to run an OS and the games/mods on either SSD then depending, and only if I needed such room to split them already limited to the 500 gb for the M.2.

 

That and I kind of "chase the times" on the latest greatest, helps keep my pc builds costs down a lot. When the next build comes around I plan to land that big fat i7 the MB will take and hopefully by then it will be just as cost efficient as my i5 was, like a LOT from normal. Next build after that I will be back into the MB and planning for all that new tech again with vcard, ram, etc but will be all set with the tower, etc. Now I never have the "latest greatest", but does everything I want for a personal machine at a very efficient cost!

 

Now if my employer wanted specs, yes I'd recommend going all out on a vcard and the likes as we both know CAD/CAM systems are not limited by such as a game engine and seconds and minutes of rendering and back plotting times add up. But for my personal time compared to the $$$, I can wait the seconds to couple minutes for such "hobby" work to be done in the software.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Indiao21

[Skinjack]

I was actually looking at an MSI computer that I could "settle" for, because it has a novel way they handle the cooling, ie separating the case into sections. Not sure about how it works (haven't done my research yet). Plus it mounts the graphics card on its side right next to the mesh intake on the side panel. Can't help but think that would help airflow, but I don't know what kind of extra room it has for a third party liquid cooling system.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Infinite-Desktop-i9-9900KF-GeForce-Computer/dp/B084ZYFZJX/ref=pd_sbs_147_6/134-5254852-5266153?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B084ZYFZJX&pd_rd_r=d9d8ed67-5e4f-4a70-aadb-c3fba066adcf&pd_rd_w=FnS8j&pd_rd_wg=zgi0P&pf_rd_p=7cd8f929-4345-4bf2-a554-7d7588b3dd5f&pf_rd_r=W7ZAKDQES35SQXK6WPA4&psc=1&refRID=W7ZAKDQES35SQXK6WPA4

 

What are you're thoughts?

 

My research drives my wife crazy. I can look at stuff for months before I commit. Took me months to narrow our new car down and even then I had to go with my gut because her car decided it didn't want to go forward anymore. Forced to pull the trigger on that one. All in all, its a nice car (Subaru Forester) and handles really well in the snow (I live in Michigan) but you have GOT to make sure you get an all wheel alignment every couple of years or it handles like crap in the snow. IE you're the slowest guy on the road because you're fishtailing everywhere.

 

I haven't decided how much Ram I want to go with. My head tells me 32GB is enough, but my CAD experience says 64GB can't hurt. Plus, you know... shiny. :D This particular one I'm looking at has 64GB, and I suppose I could make due with that if I had to :whistling: , but it has a 32GB version for a little cheaper. I'm really only in the beginning phases of my search and I've got a lot of time on my hands these days, but I could still see me taking months to decide on something. Especially if I can squeeze extra life out of this one.

 

I did plan on upgrading this one to Windows 10 and letting the wife use it. Its more than she needs and will probably use, but its nice to keep around as a backup for me in case anything goes wrong with my primary computer. I've just got this one set up for me and its kind in finicky so she doesn't like to touch it. Every time she does, something breaks. It would be funny if I didn't have to fix her screw-ups. :laugh: