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What Mod Managers can you use with Oblivion?

#mod organizer #oblivion #modding advice #mod management

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#1
PutridPestilence666

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Last time I tried to use Mod Organizer with Oblivion (about two or three years ago) not a single mod that used OBSE would even work. It would launch OBSE and the mods would be installed correctly but the mod would not work. But other mods like texture mods and race mods worked just fine. This just confused me and then I decided to just stick to WryeBash and OBMM. Just wondering because I have seen a lot of people suggest using NMM and MO2 even though I have only ever used WryeBash and OBMM. I have also heard people say to never use NMM or MO2 with Oblivion. So what is the deal? Has Mod Organizer 2 changed something? And is there any benefit to using MO2 or NMM?



#2
Striker879

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Keep in mind this is just an opinion, and same as that other thing that is part of a part of you that you sit on, everybody has one.

 

I'm a manual installer, and will forever be a manual installer. Yes I use Wrye Bash (only way to get a bashed patch) and I have used WB to install some mods.

 

My reasoning is that to properly install mods you need to know something about those mods. Yes mod descriptions, readmes and mod comments are all valid sources for information, but I also came equipped from the factory with two serviceable Mark I eyeballs connected to an equally serviceable brain (which could also serve perfectly well as a big grey lump that is only used to hold my shoulders down ... but then again I'm not widely known for wanting to be like "most poeople").

 

To effectively use any mod manager you need to know what you are doing. Proof of that is easily found in any forum here. Mod managers are not an effective replacement for a serviceable brain.

 

So how does one acquire a serviceable brain (at least serviceable from a mod installing perspective)?

 

My own method is reading mod descriptions, readmes and mod comments of course , but there is one other very important component ... learning from mistakes. Now I'm no different that the next guy and I really don't go out of my way to make mistakes. Fortunately I don't need to as there are legions of people more than willing to do the dirty work for me. All I'm required to do is spend some time looking into their foibles and try to help sort out their messes.

 

I had to use OBMM to get my first mod installed. Once I saw how OBMM accomplished what I had failed to do on numerous attempts vs what passed as install instructions for that class of mod, I was able to see a little of how the mod worked (yup, body replacers ... keep in mind that had I blindly followed those instructions I would have succeeded but you will still have no luck getting me to extract an archive directly into my game folders).

 

That started me on a path of learning how to install mods. Had I continued only using mod managers it would have started me on a path of learning how to use mod managers. You could argue that the end result is the same (a modded game) but I counter with the argument that they aren't the same. The mod manager path leaves me with absolutely no knowledge of how mods work and interact with one another, or what to do when things don't go as planned. The manual install path does, because of what it requires of me before I install a mod ... understanding.

 

This whole "clean Data folder" syndrome that seems to sweeping the modding world has no brook in my book. The "benefits" it brings to the table are outweighed by the price it demands. To me installing with a mod manager equals choosing the path of not understanding.

 

If I want a clean Data folder to start a new character I can just move the appropriate files and folders to a backup drive, but then again I guess to know what you're doing there would require understanding, and that does not fall from heaven like mana.

/rant


Edited by Striker879, 06 June 2020 - 05:19 PM.


#3
Radioactivelad

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I still use the (Community) Nexus Mod manager, and it works fine for every Nexus game I play.

 

The real problem with mod-managers and Oblivion is that a lot of older Oblivion mods predate them, and are not set up with proper file paths, and there's nothing that can really be done about that besides reorganizing and repacking the mod yourself.

 

Also... in regards to the above: It's less about Mod Mangers being good for installing mods, and more about *uninstalling* them.

Manually checking off what assets need to be deleted is not something for which there is any reason to go back to, especially when the average mod-maker still has poor folder and file naming etiquette.

(And resorting to backing up entire installations is a pretty excessive response.)

 

It also really doesn't do much about "understanding how mods work and interact with each other."

Contemporary mod managers tell you what files from what mod they're going to overwrite, and even give you the option to selectively overwrite files on a case-by-case basis, which is a lot more useful for "understanding" your mods and getting them to play to your satisfaction together than the basic windows explorer. (And obviously it does nothing at all for understanding how ESP/ESM mods will interact in-game. That's what reading descriptions is for and why your grade school teachers hopefully emphasized developing Critical Thinking skills.)


Edited by Radioactivelad, 01 June 2020 - 04:52 PM.


#4
leonardo2

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I still use the (Community) Nexus Mod manager, and it works fine for every Nexus game I play.
 
The real problem with mod-managers and Oblivion is that a lot of older Oblivion mods predate them, and are not set up with proper file paths, and there's nothing that can really be done about that besides reorganizing and repacking the mod yourself.

If you want to have a modded game stable then you need start using Wrye Bash, which is essential for the major overhauls e.g FCOM, MMM, OOO.  Cobl is another popular mod that requires the Bashed Patch and only Wrye Bash can manage it. 

 

Then you need to understand what BAIN is all about.

 

BAIN = Bash Installers
 

Also... in regards to the above: It's less about Mod Mangers being good for installing mods, and more about *uninstalling* them.
Manually checking off what assets need to be deleted is not something for which there is any reason to go back to, especially when the average mod-maker still has poor folder and file naming etiquette.
(And resorting to backing up entire installations is a pretty excessive response.)
 
It also really doesn't do much about "understanding how mods work and interact with each other."
Contemporary mod managers tell you what files from what mod they're going to overwrite, and even give you the option to selectively overwrite files on a case-by-case basis, which is a lot more useful for "understanding" your mods and getting them to play to your satisfaction together than the basic windows explorer. (And obviously it does nothing at all for understanding how ESP/ESM mods will interact in-game. That's what reading descriptions is for and why your grade school teachers hopefully emphasized developing Critical Thinking skills.)

What you described is exactly what Wrye Bash does and here is a pictorial guide for Wrye Bash, just to get you started. :smile:


Edited by leonardo2, 02 June 2020 - 10:42 PM.


#5
Radioactivelad

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I don't use those mods and CNMM already handles all the features I described.

I don't "need" wyrebash given that it doesn't do anything that I "need" done.  :P


Edited by Radioactivelad, 03 June 2020 - 03:58 PM.


#6
beldaran1224

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Wrye Bash is the ONLY way to get a bashed patch. Now, if you have a small mod list, you can get away without one. But if you have any mods that touch the same records or more than say...20ish mods, you NEED a Bashed Patch.

 

Re: Not needing mod managers...while I respect that that is what works for you, it is still a terrible way to suggest people do things. As already pointed out, good mod managers like Wrye Bash and MO2 are as much about uninstalling and managing install order as they are actually getting a mod up and running. There is literally nothing about manually installing mods that forces you to learn more about them than installing them with a manager. In fact, when it comes to Oblivion, mod managers often force you to think about things. They warn you about missing masters that you wouldn't have even known existed. They force you to repack many mods (especially older ones) just to get them in, which means you have to make some attempt to figure out what they do.

 

Manually installing mods is singularly worse when it comes to troubleshooting, especially with a mod that is still being updated and for which bug reports are a godsend. Not to mention mod managers are essential to manage load order.

 

Manual installation working for you doesn't mean its the overall better method.

 

As for which I recommend. MO2 is amazing, but if you only want to use one, use Wrye Bash. Take the time to learn it, because it is a very powerful little program. Myself, I use MO2 now, with Wrye Bash for the Bashed Patch and for some other quick functions.







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