pgir001

This is a VERY important element to the "Can Skyrim stand alone?" discussion: Skyrim can become an independent nation ONLY if the DB sides with the Stormcloaks. If the DB sides with the Empire, the Stormcloaks are over, done, kaput. Even if the Nords are mighty warriors. Which shows that they most likely could NOT resist an AD invasion without the DB's assistance. Absent the DB's assistance to either side, the Stormcloaks never take control of all of Skyrim, but neither does the Empire suppress the rebellion. In which case, when the AD and Empire resume the Great War, Part II, both sides of the civil war lose to the AD. UNLESS the DB (if he's still around) decides to aid the Empire against the AD. Even on the occasions where I have followed the Stormcloaks, I've always looked at Ulfric as a "wannabe" Even when I side with him in the rebellion, I am still thinking, he's not worthy to be High King. But, in order to establish a new Empire, Skyrim needs her independence. At the end of the battle for Whiterun and when Balgruuf gets ousted, and expresses his disappointment. I want to say to him....."You should trust me, this is for the best. It's also not going to play out how everyone expects. There are much greater things at work here."

Only thing, is that I don't see Skyrim as "ity-bity" The Nords have always been strong warriors. Skyrim isn't a well developed nation in terms of cities and culture, but they can sure fight. Aslo, I disagree with the poster above who said LDB is a non issue as the TES heroes disappear. That is only true from the subsequest TES installment's context. Meaning Oblivion's history has to be kept minimal and generic as told from Skyrim. And so Skyrim's history will have to be kept minimal and generic when referenced in TES 6. It has to be like that since from TES 6. Even Major events can't be known. Like the year Titus Mede II dies. But the big thing is, When in Sovrngarde, Tsun tells the LDB his destiny lies elsewhere. So his story isn't finished. MAybe from our perspective it ends, but the implication is that the LDB will carry on some more. And I don't think Tsun was talking about going back to finish rebuilding the Thieve's Guild (or whatever other quests were undone) Assuming you chose to believe the Dragonborn doesn't disappear soon after the evnetsl of TES 5, The Dominion now have something serious to worry about. And Even if you do believe the LDB leaves the scene, I'd imagine the return would inspire many Nords to learn "The Power of Old".

Almost invariably, I do not. I usually enjoy playing an archer of some sort. Most of my builds involve marksman to a heavy degree. To me, a Tempered Dwarven Crossbow, offers more than the VL Form. But that's subjective and based on play style. That said, modding changes everything. Better Vampires, Royal Bloodline and Dark Maneuvers look pretty formidable together. I'm trying these mods out but something feels off about being a Vampire. It's not the mods and it's not the VL form lacking power. I think finally put my finger on why I am a powerful Vampire, but don't feel like one. Skyrim is simply not designed for it. If we look at the conversation with Parturnaax, he reveals what I believe is one of the foundations for the entire game. "Alduin took domination as his birthright." Further in the discussion, he goes on to say that the desire to dominate is in the nature of all Dov. The Dovahkiin is not expempt. For the Dragonborn, I imagine there is a balance that has been achieved between the desire for domination and, (I'll use the term broadly to include Beast and Mer) Humanity. But what happens when that balance is lost? When that "humanity" is gone? Mixing blood with a pure blooded vampire? One who's blood comes directly from the Daedric Lord of Dominiation? This is like a picture of 2 big kids sitting on the same side of s Sea Saw. A Dragonborn Vampire Lord, to me, would be the ultimate expression of "Domination" this side of Cold Harbor. (And even then) "I offer you my blood. Take it, and you will walk as a lion among sheep. Men will tremble at your approach, and you will never fear death again." And yet, I still have to hide my vampirism and play the part of the hero of Skyrim. What's missing is the option to not hide being a Vampire. Sure the good people of Skyrim will reject the Dragonborn. I'm certain they'd want to see him/her dead and deny the "Hero of Legend" ever returned...........At 1st. But they'd learn........or else.

did you make a clean save before using the console?

The LDB is a non issue. He won't be around to do jack squat. History demands that heroes dissappear. It's one of the underlying themes of TES. Heroes exist to make a decision, they don't get to live in the worlds they save. The Dragonborn's story ended with Miraak.The story of Tamriel's future belongs to someone else. Yes, I do realize that's been TES history. To open the way from one game to the next. I suppose it would depend on when TES VI takes place. But leaping ahead to then, I would not expect the LDB to still be floating around somewhere. But that's only because TES VI can't make any assumptions. So, Bethesda can only go with what they know, which is the TES V's content. So, nothing more than what they did in TES V can be mentioned in "history". But that still leaves a gap where anything can happen. But yeah, I get that it can't be enough to "make history" from here. But in this regard, the same thing applies to all the characters. Ulfric, Tullius, Elisif. In the future of Tamriel, there could be a reference to "Skyrim's High King" But we probably won't know who that is. be it one of the Jarls or even if it would be the LDB.

This is where I would say a New Empire, or a new strength for the old should be born out of Skyrim once again. And the 4E Dragonborn has the strength to lead it. (Honestly, I would say Helgen started 5E) It was always my help assumption (given a Nord) that the Dragonborn would ultimately be tie one voted in as High King at the Moot. Even if not, He or She still arguably commands the strongest military force in Tamriel history. I mean, even Dragons obey him/her now. So History would repeat. Either a revitalization or a new Empire would soon be coming out of Skyrim to deal with the Thalmor. It would not be lead by Ulfric Stormcloak or General Tullius.

And that's exactly why in my Skyrim, I gladly kill him every time........And I don't use Tullius' sword. I use Poetic Justice. Unrelenting force enhanced with Dragonborn Force. Thus revealing his true nature........An ash hole.

The Aela Mod by Dreamkingmods. Also try Aurlyn. The thing with Aela is that the Author took the follower beyond what Skyrim's audio assets allow for, given what was voiced specifically for Skyrim by Claudia Christian. So where her voice files leave off, it's a Text only interaction. It's still pretty good, You will have conversations about being the Dragonborn, you will have interactions about being Werewolves...even if you aren't one. She has a lot to say while on the Hircine Hunt quest. Again, not voiced, but IMO takes her well beyond what Bethesda envisioned for her. As for Aurlyn. 100% vanilla faced Aldmer elf follower. Very well voice acted and she has much to say. Which I love. She is in no way, "eye-candy"................but she has a nice personality. Her main downside is that she's just too freaking powerful. I feel like I'm her follower / side-kick when we are out and about.

Far more than I probably should LOL

I corrupted my save.......again. So I am going to start a new game. But this time, I'd like to follow a traditional "Dragonborn" Theme. So I'll probably make a Male Nord Warrior with Heavy armor, Sword/shield or sword/sword. I would really like to delve into an experience centered around being the Dragonborn....As opposed to a warrior or mage who can shout. So as much as possible, I'd like to make shouts my primary means of battle. and I'd like some good mods that give alternative use for dragonsouls. Such as stronger shouts or abilities etc. I have Thunderchild. I've tired True Dragonborn. While I like the concept, I'm not sure if it works. I've had it running and never seen the buffs in my magic effects list. I'm OK with mods being a little over powered if they truly enhance the experience without making the game boring. Has anyone had any success with this kind of theme and what mods have you guys used?

I'm still not convinced, that's enough justification for Nords to kill Nords who aren't their enemy. I've always felt the Civil War was one of Skyrim's biggest squandered opportunities. I've always believed that the Dragonborn should have been above the the war and his/her job was to put a stop to it. I've always seen both sides as bad for Skyrim. Both have very few redeeming qualities. However, Ulfric is right about one thing. Contrary to what is said, the Empire is NOT keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim. But that doesn't mean his way is better. Ulfric as an unworthy king. Otherwise, I'd side with the "rebel's" every time. I feel as the Steward of Markarth does. I've always felt the ARK should have been told along the lines of the Dragonborn approaching the Jarls in each hold and rallying them......or forcing them, one way or another, to join a 3rd banner. One that is for Skyrim, but not Ulfric. (The Dragonborn's). Then with a unified Skyrim, stamp out the other 2 warring factions. As I've posted elsewhere in the past on similar topics, I've always seen the story carry on beyond the game. And in that Story, I've seen where (Assuming the Dragonborn is a Nord, which is lore history and not looking at everyone's individual games) given all his / her exploits, I find it almost impossible for the topic of the High King vote at the moot to not become an issue for Elisif, Ulfric and the Dragonborn. Especially considering how the Dragonborn single handedly won the war, unified the factions in Skyrim and assembled a mighty military force both seen and unseen in the Realm, including Rebuilding The Blades, The College, The DB, the TG, Volkihar, the Dawnguard, The Companions, and ultimately even many Dragons themselves. Having become "The 2nd most powerful Dragonborn that ever lived" and then killing the 1st, Means the 4E. Dragonborn has surpassed all others including Talos himself. The issue of nobility can be answered in that by being Dragonborn, the bloodline can be said to be of the same origin as Talos himself, if not a direct descendant of Talos. The Issue of the player not being Nord, can be answered by marrying one of the Jarls, who becomes King/Queen. I Imagine the Entrance to the Moot. All those factions show up. The Dragonorn rides in on dragonback with more circling overhead.....Yeah, that's an entrance. It is for this reason, one that doesn't even exist in the game and that I made up, that sometimes, I do join the Stormcloaks. The idea that Yeah, I'll help Ulfric win the War, but not to be the High King.

GOL HAH DOV (The same "argument" could also be used at the upcoming Moot to make the Dragonborn High King/Queen too.)

Bethesda really tried to set it up so both sides are a tough call. They wanted it so there is no right or wrong. They failed. Probably due to having gutted the ark to the point of almost non existence in the game. They left one major issue that I have a hard time with. Ulfric has no justification to attack Whiterun under his cause other than for his own personal gain. Whiterun is neutral and does not support the Empire nor does it oppose the Stormcloaks. It also openly allows Talos worship right out in the streets. This means that Ulfric commits Nords to death against other Nords and it is not for his religious reasons. It's just that he simply want's the hold. That completely invalidates his cause. Ulfric is just as bad for Skyrim as the Thalmor. It's probably not how it was supposed to be in the game, But it's how it is.

But.......you've got Curved Swords..........Curved.........Swords.

Here is my take on this. I don't care about the past on either side. I want Parthurnax alive. If we were to project the story line beyond the game, projecting forward to the Moot and then beyond. As the Dragonborn, I believe has a greater destiny. To help rebuild Skyrim and the Empire.....or create a new one altogether. To me, the story would continue beyond the game through unifying all the other factions under one banner. Then, Durnehviir, Odahving and Parthurnaax. As well as those dragons who willingly follow "The Way of the Voice" including the Greybeards and also any dragons and people the Dragonborn turned using Bend Will would tool. I would think this would be the greatest military force ever assembled in the history of Tamriel. Now, as for the Blades, as the Dragonborn, I would approach Delphine and Esbern and say to them. Parthurnaax is worth more to me alive for the future plan than he is dead. Him, remaining alive will save more humans currently living then killing him will. His live is also worth more than yours. As for the Blades organization, This temple and the name "Blades"...They belong to me. Parthurnax is to continue on. You may choose to join me and help rebuild the Blades or walk away now. If you interfere, I'll kill you where you stand. Unfortunately, that option was never presented. But I do use Arthmoor's The Parturnaax Dilemma mod. But I had always wanted to make a mod.........It's way beyond me though. Where if you did kill him and came to regret it, you could seek help from Durnehviir where he hepls you construct a dragon soul phylactery, that you then go kill a dragon and direct that soul into the Phylactery. Then you go to the Time Wound and use the Dragon Scroll to go back in time and give the phylactery to Parturnaax at a point in time before you lkill him. So that means at the time you killed him, you absorbed the soul in the Phylactery and not Parthurnaax's, so when you return to the present, he's there too.

One of the things that bugs me the most about Skyrim is the disconnect within the game. The dynamic dialog is terrible. Everyone lives under a rock. Followers offer no interaction on most quests, they just repeat the same shallow lines over and over. Some guards will make some comments about current quests. But there needs to be more of that all the way around and they need to be more on top of what's happening under their noses, not just what's in your quest log. Killing a dragon in Falkreath, then hearing the guards talk about a dragon attacking Kynesgrove is a head shaker. If you want to facepalm the game left and right, try saving the Companions ARK for the last thing you do in Skyrim and listen to how they talk to you. Skjor: "You need to prove yourself whelp".............Marching into Sovngarde and killing Alduin not enough for you is it? Aela: I've heard you might be stronger than you look"............"I know right? Double enchanted legendary tempered Dragonscale with a legendary tempered enhanced Dwemer X-Bow does look pretty weak doesn't it?" The list goes on (and on and on and on) The prevailing theme of the game is that you are the Dragonborn, but, outside of the main quest and DLC2, it's virtually irrelevant which is the majority of the game. I want to see where the game can keep up with the player and can adjust according. Bethesda really need to step up more in this area. They need to do a better job in making the player feel like they are actually in a single game instead of a dozen little ones.

I just started a new save. I usually don't do Vampire or traditional mage type. But this time, I went with Harkon's offer. And went up the left and right sides of the Conjuration tree. Almost solely on conj. I am running with the revised Coldharbor Summons mod. I have to say, I really like it. I am using it in conjunction with my own little conjuration mod that allows for more than 2 souls at Master, I made it so the number of summons slowly increases as you level and caps at either 5 or 10 souls. My character is not independently strong. but between multiple summons and a few vampire follower mods, I am playing the mastermind type game. My biggest challenge is finding a good place to hide and spam atronachs. LOL. This is actually fun. I am OP in 1 aspect yet I cannot afford to take even 1 hit from stronger mobs.

My favorite is Arcane Assassin. I use Bound Weapon Redux and Enchanted Bound Weapons and ABT. Since the build can be effective with the 1st few perks in MM, Conjuration to a minimum of Oblivion Binding, Enchanted Bound Weapons give health absorb and elemental damage as well as picking up the freebie Soul Trap, they really work well. It's never as much damage as what can be done through over-tempering, but it will allow you to fight Against any mob on any difficulty once you get a few perks up. Plus in the later game you also have the advantage of stronger summonings if you have the Perks to spare. The reason I like this build is that it's light weight, I don't worry about ammo or recharging weapons. The Damage is not awesome but doable, but the bound bow more than makes up with it in accuracy and speed. Outside of Dragonrend, The bound bow is one of my better ways of combating dragons in the sky.

I started up a new play-through. Installed several follower mods that looked interesting. Using SOT and setting my game to Legendary difficulty, I hit Bleak Falls Barrow with Vilja, Tocatta, Uethgerd and Selene Kate. Sure we were clearing everything and neither side was terribly op. It was interesting, but playing a heavy warrior style isn't really my thing. I definitely want to try something different though. I've always played on the Dawnguard side since I have always been an archer, I've always completed Ancient Technology very early. I've done several games where I have been an "Arcane Assassin" using combinations of Sneak, Marksman and Conjuration. That's a lot of fun, but you needs some mods to alter the way Bound Weapons work to make it worth the while. Anyway, I'm going to use my own mod.....a little mod I made that allows you to summon progressively more conjured souls as you level through the conjuration tree but doesn't give unlimited souls. Actually, the mod that piqued my interest in this mage type was the new Coldharbor Resummoned mod. Technically, not followers, but permanent summons. But this time I am going to accept Harkon's "gift" So, with that in mind, can anyone recommend any followers they like that fit within that theme? (Vampire-Conjuration Mage)

I don't use DCO. If I get knocked back during the animation sequence of getting up from the previous knock back, it will permanently break by camera view and I'll never get control back,

OK, I am completely revising my game. I'm removing a bunch of different mods, grabbing some different ones that will make my game even more difficult. This is with the intent to run with multiple followers at a time. I'm going to try Vilja and Inigo together and see if this changes things for me. I've always felt running with more than one follower was overpowered.....especially when I have been playing they type of character who snipes. 1-2 shot kills from (very long) range.....I'd been using the Scoped Bow mod. I think I will try mods like SOT and Genesis along with others like Deadly Dragons....etc. And go the warrior path. bring a healer and all that....

More than once, I've finished a fight from range, only to find Lydia dead..........Well, there's only one way that can happen.

I think one of my biggest frustrations probably isn't so much the followers, but rather their framework. I prefer stealthy characters. I'm going to dump my present game and try starting over as a warriror and see if it makes a difference.

Maybe that's my problem...I'm looking for that one follower to be everything I want. Funny thing is that people don't exist like this and I have to accommodate them in my life. Why am I expecting differently here?

For me, I wish the answer was straightforward. 1st, I'd like to say, they are my favorite mods. I love followers and almost never travel without them However there are some inherent shortcomings with the system and I'm curious to see what others think or how they deal. Most followers just come up short or don't match up with what I am looking for. The Vanilla follower system is incredibly lacking and far too shallow. The repealed dialog over and over with no root in what's actually happening in the game makes them obviously fake after a very short period. There are mods like FCO which attempt to expand the vanilla system, but unfortunately, it too is limited by the shallow framework so it ends up being the same only more of it. The most obvious aspect lacking from the Vanilla system is the lack of any kind of interaction with the follower based on what's happening in the game. They can't keep up. Some of the custom mods do and this is an absolutely wonderful addition to the game. But these aren't without issues either. As I said, some of my favorite mods are the voiced mods. If nothing else, they ad a fresh new sound to the game. I can make a follower in CK and set it up to do whatever I want, but If I have to assign it the Female Even Toned Voice, I will never be able to use that mod without thinking "Lydia" every time it speaks. Even with the most rudimentary custom voiced follower, this breaks that voice association issue. At least for me. Then we have the big hitters. Vilja, Hoth, Inigo, Sophia, Arissa and Anduniel. The effort, dedication and hard work that went into these is simply amazing. Unfortunatly, while these mods are amazing for what they are, they don't deliver what I am looking for. I was also surprised to discover how important these follower's inherent personalities are to m and how they come across. Vilja's voice acting is fine, others have said it sound's amateurish. I didn't think it was bad at all, but the character that is Vilja......if I'm not looking at her when she speaks, her demeanor comes across like she's some old woman trying too hard to act like a "badass" in front of her grandchildren while at the same time, carefully choosing her words so as not to be offensive in front of them. I've tried Inigo, but, I just don't like the invented backstory. Hoth, I've never tried, but the description doesn't look enough like he'd mesh with my play-style. I play stealth, so I generally don't roll with "heavies". Then there is Sophia. While she has what is in my opinion, the best dialog system out there. Albeit limited, I absolutely love how she stays "plugged into" the main quest ark. It's like she's there and really a part of what you are doing. There are others, who have similar dialog as well, but the way Sophia handles it is very well done. Unfortunately, I can't stand her personality. I don't need a follower acting like a child half her age who recently discovered it's funny to talk dirty to little boys, intentionally trying to create sexual tension at the middle school level. I've used and greatly enjoyed Arissa, but this "no killing" rule is a bit of a deal breaker. I'm not usually looking to play an evil character, but the mod tends to run in conflict with the DB ark. Well, that's not what I need in my followers. They need to enhance what I am doing, not restrict it. Of all the custom voiced followers, I would use Anduniel the most. Her quests are good, The voice acting is decent. She has an extensive dialog. Her commentary does keep up with the story to some degree. But again, The character tends to act a little too light hearted for what I am looking for in Skyrim. Then there is this new one, The Recorder. Great job, well done, pretty, good VA, but, her overall theme..... while I am no lore monger, that breaks the lore far beyond what I want. Her reference to Chocobos was enough for me. I thought I had found a good follower in Aurlyn, but she's a little to be too powerful, and ultimately the personality isn't a good fit. I had created a Saadia replacer and based her on Cicero's combat style. If I use a vanilla voiced follower other than Serana, it's probably this one. But ultimately the limitations of the Vanilla "sultry" voice (or should I say, voices) won't cut it for long. Then there are the followers who are geared for their own quests. Like Mirai and Rigmor. I've enjoyed both mods greatly. And I'd say Rigmor is one of my favorite quest mods ever. Rigmor is not one of my favorite followers. Once outside their quests, they tend to suffer the same issues as vanilla. A limited and shallow dialog. Ultimately, I end up falling back on Serana due to Dawnguard being my favorite ark and since she's going with me anyway, I just use her the most. She is the most comprehensive of Bethesda's followers and with the expanded dialog mod, she's a little better than "out of the box". But Serana feels all wrong. I don't think Bethesda properly developed her character at all. She should/could have been the best follower. But, there's just not enough "Vampire" in her. She's got far too much "mommy and daddy" issues and not enough Daedra issues in her life. I've always felt she should have been a much darker character. Her personal struggle should not have been "mommy and daddy abused me" but rather her struggle should have been one of not wanting to lose her self completely over to her nature being a Daughter of Cold Harbor. And her primary reason for being with the Dragonborn isn't that there is no one else to trust.....she would trust anyone regardless. But rather that the Dragonborn is the only one is Skyrim who is "Badass" enough to be of any help to her. She should act like a vampire, talk like one, feed like one. And her struggle would be to retain her identity and not be entirely consumed by her daedric side. Anyway, weighing out what's there, I usually stick with Serana and the Dialog edit mod by "YeahThatGuy" What follower(s) do most of you run with primarily? Do you use one? Multiples? Do you swap back and forth? If you use a particular follower or mod, what made you chose that one? What turns you off from other certain mods?