GSajer

Sadly, this has been my experience as well. I went back to playing xcom/ew classic ironman after 6 attempts at playing Long War. I couldn't get within a sniff of success. It was like bathing in a sea of enemy combatants. And mind you -I was playing at the most basic level. The developers keep saying, well, tinker with the .ini file. I've got a better idea; how about producing a final that an advanced player has a shot at WITHOUT modification, and then put in one or two layers of harder level options.

:sad: I think I'm going to hang this one up for awhile. I thought I was good because I had won Xcom/EW on classic mode using Ironman. But that doesn't begin to prepare a player for LW normal. I have improved, but after six attempts at the lowest threshold possible I have to admit to myself that I don't begin to be prepared for LW. I'm going to go back and play the stock game at classic until I can win consistently. At that point I'll come back to LW. I don't know what tactics or knowledge folks have to employ to win this thing at the most basic level but it's clearly God-like. I'm just not there.

:cool: I've got a new question. In missions with similar size and scope, there are times when the size of the opposition force is manageable and times where I'm as overwhelmed as Custer at the Little Bighorn. In fact, there are times when I've got so many barrels firing at me, I don't think I could survive with the best equipment available. And I'm beginning to wonder that there is something fundamental I don't understand about wave triggering. I'm getting the feeling my tactics are provoking extra waves that might otherwise not be hurled at me. So this begs the question: Does each mission begin with a predetermined number of enemies, or can provocative behavior add even more enemies to the count? Case in point: I'm in an EXALT mission, and I get the message "This looks like the last wave, we just have to hold out a little longer." Two turns later after I cling to some shred of hope to survival I again hear: " This looks like the last wave, we just have to hold out a little longer." It's just enough to make you wonder if this is a game, or some kind of unique hell.

:mellow: Well, based on what I've read from the LW developer's notes, withdrawals and mission aborts are really part of the furniture. Naturally, you want to keep these to a minimum, but they can well be unwinnable. When I get the sense that this is what I'm facing, I go in with a completely revised doctrine which is to grab whatever I can grab, cause as much attrition as possible, and get most of the force out intact.

Well, I'm starting on my 6th attempt at normal mode. If you want to call me a masochist, I'm guilty as charged. Hope to win it once before I die.

:cool: Yeah, I'm well aware of the .ini tweaks. So far I've refrained from touching them. I pretty much understand the whole challenge concept. It's frustrating, but it sure ain't boring. Ghod, if it's this hard in the normal mode, I shudder to think what an advanced level might be like. Oh, well. I guess it's like a drug, you know it's going to kill you, but the process is fascinating.

You guys make it all sound so casual. The stalemate suggestion with the flanker I find interesting. But when you've got as many as 8 adversaries coming at you in a single wave, I usually find myself in a turn by turn fighting withdrawal just to utilize overwatch and stay out of pickoff range. I have NO problem using explosives. I'll use anything in my hands to avoid being swamped. One thing I've never been clear on. I'm often in cover and on overwatch. The enemy is heard nearby, but the AI cleverly refuses to to be suckered to emerge and attack. Will that situation go on into perpetuity, or will they eventually attack? I usually send out a single piece of bait as a provocation. Sometimes it has the desired affect, and sometimes I just get beat to death for my efforts.

It's hard to quantify. Each time I try to do a little better at research and character development. And it helps, I last a little longer. But in the end, I'm overwhelmed by superior numbers. I've had situations where I've had what I thought was really good equipment and technology, but six weapons and frantic tactics just can't survive these numbers. I tie myself in knots trying not to trigger more waves than I have to, and I've even got some degree of control in the air war, but I can't deal with these numbers even with a parity in weapons.

:blush: I've had a brutal time with this mod. But I'm desperately trying to be intellectually honest about it. I'm experienced at xcom. Going back to 1994. Yup! I took on Long War with a great deal of success with the vanilla version. I've begun and fled four or five attempts at Long War. To say it's hard doesn't begin to describe it. Every time I start again, I try to analyze my failures, and try to do better. And each time I do a little better. But in the end I am crushed. I have read and read what the developers say about how to approach this beast. I try to take them seriously. At this point All I am asking is this: Has ANYONE ever won this thing at the normal level? ANYONE? If they have, just say so here. I'll take you at your word, no questions asked. If you feel generous, just summarize a suggested research path toward that success. I'm in a ruined heap. :)

Sure. This helped me somewhat, and I'm surviving, just barely. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.864206-XCOM-Long-War

:ohmy: I will say this: If you think you're a bad-ass gamer, and you want a challenge, this it. One mistake, or the least bit of complacency, and this thing will rip your lungs out and bind your hands with your own entrails. This one, you will not sneer at.

:geek: Post Script. I'm back at it again. I finally found a comment and strategy site that inspired me to try again, as brutal as it is. The complexity and imagination of this thing is just too compelling to let go of. I guess I'll just keep trying until I win a campaign or I have a stroke --whichever comes first.

I've tried and tried with the best skills and experience I have which is considerable. Until I read that at least one person has won this thing at the most basic level, I'm done burning up precious life on it. Good luck.

Fine. This thing has got 50% more convoluted discussions than it needs. In any event, what I'd like to convey is that anyone interested in this mod must be warned: This is not a nerf of the original. It will rip your lungs out. Take THAT to the bank.

:blush: This mod is both brilliant and brutal. I'm no stranger to xcom. I've won at classic/ Ironman multiple times. But this is a whole new animal. Forget any of the conventional wisdom with this beast. I am thoroughly intimidated. I'm not giving up, but there are moments when I am uncertain this thing is winnable at all. I'm now using normal mode with some carefully selected advanced options. I'm barely hanging on and deteriorating. It's not boring, but I'd sure like some reassurance by someone that progress can be made into the middle game. (whew) If the concept of Long War was challenge they've accomplished that to the wall.

I certainly is difficult on normal. I have started to bail and refuse missions. In EW classic doing that sort of thing would put you into a death spiral. Clearly I need some education. So I'll pursue this in File Discussions

I was referring to the Long War mod applied over EW. It's a fascinating mod, but many missions make classic/ironman look manageable. I'm not complaining; but clearly I'm not making the progression needed to cope with the ever more numerous and sophisticated enemies. I'm using some of the advanced features, but normal mode. I've managed to get an A rating from the council, but I'm visibly slipping behind on tech, and suffering brutally. I KNOW the research tree, but for some reason nothing I know to be successful works anymore. Perhaps I should be focused on a beginner's guide?

I don't know quite what has changed, but this entire mod has become lethal even under normal setting, and right from the get go. I'm no stranger to xcom and I've won using classic and iron man. But right now this mod is exhibiting difficulties beyond my ability to compete at at all.

Question: Could anyone summarize the effects of the aircraft intercept tools: AGG/MED/DEF ? I really need to get a better understanding of how these work.