Grandchamp1989

Lol, don't get me wrong I get what you're saying! Life be kinda dull no doubt. Love the Patrick Henry reference ;) It's really a matter of do you want more of a ''modern and highly corrupt society'' or do you want a more of a ''medieval, harsh society with more stability'' Being the history buff I am I can't but admire the concept of legion and facepalm over the lack execution in making them. :) I really think NW was meant for you to join the NCR and kick the invading ''rapists'' out of the Colorado area. This biased is a fail in my book, then they might aswell make it FA3 style and give us just 1 choice but make it as good as possible. And lets face it, FA3 was damn good!

HH impression: The Good: Loved Graham and his internal struggle. Voice acting was spot on Survivalist story was absolutely excellent - more of this please Great new craftable items! Nice scenery The Bad: The story was dull - a few fetch quests and an overstretched showdown lasting longer than it shoud, just to add hours to the DLC The tribals (all 3 tribes actually) were bland and I didn't cared for them one bit Daniel was an annoying wimp like with a lot of Fallout from Obsidian. Great concept, great idea - Mediocre execution.

Independant Vegas or NCR are your friend then. Both Legion and House want them gone. When told by the NCR to wipe them out (late game) talk to McNamara instead and get a peace treaty running. Don't Expect Moore to put on a smiley face for you despite having just ended their war with BOS though. She is kinda triggerhappy.

So is New Vegas... Casinos, hookers, drug dealers, criminals... Are they all to be considered as being "evil"? Following that logic it would be alright for the Legion to slaughter everybody in New Vegas and put them on crosses. Now consider how the NCR is dealing with the Vegas situation. The NCR made a treaty with House so NCR soldiers can't carry weapons on the Strip and instead they establish a partnership wih House making New Vegas a resort for NCR soldiers and civilians alike. Don't forget that they also try to set up a relief program to feed people in Freeside (it may not go smoothly but they are trying). As a Freeside resident would you rather have the legion or the NCR calling the shots? The Mojave is a violent place and it's pretty much the same anywhere in the Fallout world. The NCR is violent. The major difference is that the Legion is always trying to outdo its competition by displaying senseless gratuitous violence. It may act as a deterrent for the weak but there is no way that this can be seen as being "right" or justifiable on moral grounds. You may have to fight fire with fire, but the moment you start indulging into senseless acts of violence you're no longer acting in self defence. Think about Joshua Graham, his own crusade is a perfect example of that mindset. There is nothing righteous about his fight and the narrative at the end makes sure we don't miss that point. The NCR is corrupt to the bone, they don't follow one mindset and as Ulysses points out, the two headed bear will suffer from its own greed. Two heads, is one too many. Like Legion will likely end up suffering for their brutal ways, so will the NCR: Corruption at the highest level Taxes set way too high resulting in good people having to move from their home and livelyhood The murder of bitter springs (And likely quite a few similar incidents) Fast expansion resulting in multiple enemies like Khans, BOS and a tense relation with Vegas. This is how revolutions gets started and it's only a matter of time. They try to please their citizins with hollow privileges like legalized gambling, alcohol and drugs. This only creates a number of other problems like seen with the junkie trooper in Forlorn Hope and Freeside. Legion live off of being more brutal than anyone else, but once a tribe is succesfully absorbed into The Legion they scare everyone straight. There's no gambling, no raiders in their lands, no drug addicts or alcoholics. Taxes are reasonable. Trade can flow succesfully, everyone follow the same guidelines, and while far from perfect, they don't mask who they are and offer something WAY better than a wasteland of deathclaws, raiders and mutants - Raul himself don't mind Legion for these reasons. I'm well aware of their history with slaves, rape, sexism and torture for everyone who don't follow their guidelines. But that in itself have been human history since the very beginning. Rome, Feudal Japan, Germany 1940s, America before the civil wars etc. All these were necessary atrocities any country in todays world got a history of doing. Don't expect post apocalyptic people to act any different. It's a mean to an end really. Just wish Obsidian made more an effort into showing the strength and good sides of the legion.

Favourite? OWB by FAR for too many reasons to mention. If you only have money for 1 DLC, make it this one. Worst? HH bored the living crap out of me. While Joshua Graham was very interesting and had an interesting backstory, most of Zion and the tribals I found dull and boring to say the least. Also the ending felt VERY rushed. a few fetch quests and a loooong show down to add more time to the DLC.

Excellent points. I don't find Legion ''evil'' either, I get what they're about. What I like about them is that they don't mask or hide who and what they are. The Bull is all about brute natural strength and stability - whatever the cost. I understand that they can only get to the other side of Colorado through boat, but the very Fort is highly lackluster IMO. Add to that the fact that there's fundamental flaws like legionaires running like little girls from a battle and the horrible way you get treated even as an ally of the Legion...All in all, Highly underwhelming and I really think Obisidian dropped the ball when they made Legion. I'm happy that I'm not the only one who think so, but don't mind opposing views either :)

be done modding wise and in further FA installments to even the faction score. *English isn't my first language, so please bear with me - Long read coming up* ;) Lets go back for a second, to Fallout 3 and take a look at how they managed the primary factions: Enclave and BOS. While Enclave was CLEARLY the more advanced faction the BOS had two trumph cards: Liberty Prime and The Lone Wanderer. It made the end feel kinda balanced, while Enclave dominated most of the map for 80% of the time, they got absolutely demolished near the end. Now lets take a look at the disaster... I mean faction called Legion: Map - They get an unimportant corner of the map, sure they rely on raiding tactics but they A) don't respawn (Nelson, Cottonwood etc) B) Let an NCR outpost dwell right beside their main base of operation! get in there and burn it down, dammit! C) you mean to tell me they don't want to take advantage of a perfectly good Goldmine right beside Cottonwood, when they got Gold as a currency and slaves to work the mine? No, that's just lazy execution! Vendors - Sigh... Every important vendor is either in NCR territory or NCR owned (Gun Runners, Crimson Caravan, Hoover Dam Quartermaster, Lucy, 188 Trading post.. I could go on) If you side with Legion you get the pleasure of having your weapons confiscated, have the guard say you belong on a cross and then talk with the most useless vendor in the whole game. One you can buy 1 purified water and a 9mm weapons mod from. THAT is just lacy execution! Even the Blacksmith is useless, lol. Quests - Am I wrong when I say it's a 45:7 ratio favouring the NCR? You could here make the argument that there's more NCR personal to kill for experience and stuff to loot. I definitely agree with that, HOWEVER, when there's SO much potential for great Legion quests like: Help bring in slaves (Paradise Falls Style) Participate in raiding parties (Bitter Springs style) Create a line of quests revolving sabotage and make it lead up to the big ''sabotage of the monorail'' Create a line of assassination quests, which should lead up to the big killing og President Kimball Help further the Legion's advance on the map and watch legion camps grow as you do so Expand on the Arena (Oblivion style) Then there's NO excuse to just have 7 measly quests available for the Courier if he supports The Bull. Companion Side with legion and you lose Boone. You'll end up destroying the BOS bunker so Veronica is likely to leave, and if you got evil karma doing Legion's dirty work then you can say goodbye to Cass aswell. Oh, Arcade will hate you too. Any Legion companions? Rex was made in Big Mt. he worked as a legion dog, however, and with Lupus brain he could be looked at as a legion companion. Notice that even though you're vilified by legion lupus/rex will still follow you. Biased much? lol. Atleast the modding community gave us Joshua Graham as a companion - a former Legion Legate. A big thanks to the modding community! Trumph personel Legion got these badasses called Centurions, check this.. They're totally cool - It's so hard to become a Centurion that Dead Sea didn't become one despite almost singlehandedly taking down an enemy tribe. They're so cool they use armor of their fallen enemies to create their own super armor. There's just 1 of these badasses through the entire Mojave and... DAMMIT Boone, you just 1 shot'd the Centurion, now what? Caesar - Excellent character, well fleshed out, one of the best in the game. He's the very symbol the Legion's strength, his head would look great over my Courier's bed, yes? Pop a turbo and a slasher, and make it happen, it's THAT easy. As I played through Legion I was thinking to myself... Where's the Liberty Prime of this faction? Where's the superior numbers or brutal strength of The Bull. You hear stories of Legion bravery in battle, but all I see is Legion Veterans run like little girls away from me once I head-shot a few of his friends. Horrible execution! Here's my gripe: Don't give us 4 factions and make one of them so clunky and underwhelming they become a joke. Who gonna side with that, lol? They gave NCR Everything. The biased towards this faction is unbelievable. OR you can choose to fight for Las Vegas with House or do it YOURSELF (Independant). Legion is never really a choice, they're the very definition of a villian-a**hole. Except this bully gets owned by everyone around him, which should contradict lore quite a bit, yes? GREAT concept, horrible execution. Your thoughts, ideas, rants about legion? Opposing arguments are very welcomed, just keep it respectful ;)

In my humble opinion there's perfectly made start-up gear mods right on this very site. These allow you to play as a Legionaire, NCR Trooper, Sniper, Medic etc from the very start. I wouldn't put money in it when similar can be aquired for free...

Voted Legion... But While I like the concept and general idea of legion they're very underplayed/underwhelming in NW. I respect their direct approach while not political correct. They don't hide who they are or mask it up, the Bull is pure natural strength! When it comes to the execution of this concept however it's VERY hard to like legion.. - They get an unimportant little part of the map, and most of these don't respawn once you kill'em off.. - All the vendors of value reside in NCR territory - Most of their forces are knife wielding jokes and they DON'T make up for by having superior numbers - They're no more than target practice. - This faction got the least quests I think it's like a 7:40 ratio favouring NCR - You can't participate in all the fun stuff like slavering and Legion raiding parties - Veteran rangers have a strong presence in the Mojave and make an absoulute joke out of Centurions (lol there's just 1) and Praetorions (Ever watched NPC wars with these match ups? lol) - Legion makes a mockery out of you, the Courier. Saying you belong on a cross and INSIST on calling you a profligate even when you try to help them. Making it VERY hard not just to stab them right then and there. - Unlike Oliver you're able to take Caesar's head as a souvenir, which is quite tempting. In conclusion I like the CONCEPT of legion but despise the execution of which Obsidian made legion.

wait 3 in-game days then check the area around ruby hill mine. Also there's a huge amount of bighorners if you head to the Grup 'n Gulp reststop and walk towards Camp Golf.

Get lonesome road DLC and then get this: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Roughin%27_it!_portable_bedroll_kit No need for mods :)

Re-united mod crashes my game somehow... :S I agree, a stand alone Joshua Graham and/or Ulysses is desperately needed. A former Legion member like we got a former NCR (Boone) Something with the voices from the game implemented into a companion wheel like - Sunny Smiles and Marcus companions. Might be tricky though, they shouldn't be available if you kill'em in the DLC. However, if you let'em live they should be available through speech-check in Angel Cave, Zion and the entrance where you meet Ulysses after you finish the DLC (So that there aren't two of the same npc's in-game) Someone with a kind heart and good modding skills, make it happen :)

Hi Forum I don't know how many of you have played this game with multiple saves from different characters.. but I have and it's very confusing to me. Your saved games are saved as a long list together with saves from your other characters and you constantly have to watch out that you don't overwrite a save from a different character you've created etc.. Very confusing when you got 10 saves from 4 different playthroughs laying on one list twisted together IMO. All in all, I think the save system kinda sucks like that. I don't know how many here have played Mass Effect 2, but that's a game and encourage multiple playthroughs with different characters aswell. The way it saves/load is that you press the name of the certain character playthrough you want loaded up and a list of saves from this playthrough and ONLY this playthrough shows up. Same thing happens when you save a game, it only shows you saves from that playthrough so you don't overwrite a different playthrough entirely. This makes everything much simpler since you don't have to worry about overwriting a save file from another playthrough. Also everything isn't just sitting there like one big list of confusion. Now to why I put my concerns in this section: Does anyone here know if there's a mod that impliment this way of systematic saving games from multiple playthroughs and if not, does anyone have the skill and effort to make this a reality? Please leave a comment with your thoughts on the matter. p.s English isn't my first language so I apologies if I expressed myself in a confusing way.