MarkInMKUK

@Utyran - try thinking for a moment? The Gambeson is supposed to be worn OVER armour - be it chain mail, plate mail, ebony, or whatever. So how does "just making a mesh" help is show the armour of the correct type with the gambeson OVER it? If you REPLACE the armour with the Gambeson, then the armour stats all vanish because you have taken it off.

Also install OBSE, then fast Exit 2 and Windom Earle's Oblivion Crash Prevention System. Check the BOSS log file and clean any mods it suggests as needing to be cleaned.

Currently nothing else available. Feel free to create one that works though - it'd be a real boost to realism.

Currently cannot be done. I believe someone is working on a complete replacement for the dialogue system but it's not yet available.

The other lesson is "only change one thing at a time, and leep a list of what you did so that you can UNDO it"

The (potential) problem with taking a robe and making it into a Gambeson is that a gambeson is supposed to overlay armour, so the result is a twin layer mesh with the underlying mesh being chain mail. The restricted number of clothing slots really causes a few headaches for multi-layer armour. You may be able to cheat, of course, using a neck slot for the gambeson - but then it would un-equip any amulet you might have. However, it MAY not be insurmountable but might take some clever scripting to allow more than one amulet slot and then use one for the gambeson IF a chain mail coat is aleady in place. That's why I suggested initially starting with clothing not armour.

My best guess is an Archive Invalidation problem - sometimes Oblivion needs a good kick to tell it to look outside of the prepacked textures and stuff to actually find a mod. Try downloading Archive Invalidation Invalidated and see if the problem is fixed. If it IS fixed (for now), then before adding more mods I suggest you learn to use Oblivion Mod Manager (OBMM), and BOSS (Better Oblivion Sorting Software) - and if you are on Windows Vista or Windows 7, move the game files to C:\Games\Oblivion using THIS guide.

Can you please post a mod list (in spoiler tags) as well - we need a few clues at least...

Number if "if" statements = 1 Number of Endif statements = 2 Result - problems

Two things: (1) temporarily disable the sound mods (MIS and PC Sound Innocent) - especially if you have a sound chip built into your motherboard in place of a separate card. If the fpw soars back up, then you have your culprit as your poor old CPU is trying to handle too much at once and grinding to a halt. (2) Try the Advanced Window Lighting System with Chimney Smoke in place of the Window Lighting System. (shouldn't affect the Market District much but I know AWLS works with very little fps drop)

I'll give the OP a day or so to respond with their choice of outfit from one of the pages we linked (or something different entirely), is no response I'll pick one just to get the ball rolling.

If nothing else, there seems to be a stray estra endif statement - the number of "if"s and "endif"s MUST match

No, a thread - look at the forum page this thread is on, then look up to the top.

My "first timer's" Build a Bashed Patch walkthrough: Wrye Bash is not a totally "Stand alone" program, it uses another program (or set of programs) to work. The main bulk of the background work is done, currently, by "Python", which is what is called a scripting language interpreter. You write a series of instructions in a form Python can handle, and it uses those to automate various tasks. An example might be to tell Python to look through a list of files, and wherever the list told it to, change the file type from ".esp" to ".esp.ghost". You COULD go through several hundred files yourself to do that, but you'd be almost certain to make a mistake, whereas if you write the script it is to follow correctly, Python will not make any errors no matter how many times you do the job. The upshot of this is, that running Wrye Bash at all relies on Python being correctly installed first. OK, so, we will assume that you have a correct Python install, and have installed Wrye Bash, and BOSS as well. There SHOULD be a shortcut labelled "Wrye Bash Launcher" on your desktop if all went well. Double-click it as you would any other desktop shortcut, and Wrye Bash will pop up a small window while starting, then its main window. At the top of the Wrye Bash window is a series of tabs labelled "Installers", "Mods", "Saves", etc. Make sure the one labelled "Mods" is selected - the others can be ignored for the moment. Next, look right at the bottom of the window. You should see a series of icons, including a pale green and pale pink aquare, and the familiar Oblivion icon. Depending which other Oblivion-related programs you also have installed, you may see icons for paint.NET, Blender, Bink Video utilities, and plenty of programs which I also don't have installed. The one to look for is the word "Boss" in black lettering. If you have both of those, you are well on your way to building a "Bashed Patch". Next - a little bit of setting up... Firstly the second column on the screen currently shows something like "Lo...". In the same way you would if using a spreadsheet, hover your mouse next to that label until you find the vertical bar separating it from the next column (labelled "R"). Click and drag that to the right, until the header says "Load order". Once you can see that, release the mouse click, and then click ON the words "Load Order". The column below, and the associated mods, should organise themselves into numerical order, starting with "00" at the top, and increasing as you go down the column. With me so far? Secondly, right-click anywhere on the bar with the "File" and "Load Order" labels in. A pop-up menu should appear. Remoce the tick from "Lock Times" if there is one, and make sure there are ticks in front of "BOSS disable lock times" and "Always update BOSS masterlist prior to running BOSS". Now, click the BOSS icon at the bottom of the screen. There will be a small popup while the Masterlist updates, and BOSS runs, and then a window will open with the "Better Oblivion Sorting Software Log" in it. Read down it, and you should see familiar mod names, along with some arcane comments about "Bash tag suggestions". Check through the whole list for anything labelled "Error" or "Warning" - these need to be dealt with (or at the very least, understood) before trying to go further. If you close the BOSS log and go back to the Wrye Bash window, you may well find that mods have changed order in the window. BOSS has used its Masterlist to determine what it thinks is the best load order, and adjusted the date and time stamps of the files so that they load in that order. Now, left-click on ANY one of the mods, and press Ctrl+A to select all of the mods. They should all be highlighted. Right-click the highlight, and select "Mark Mergeable" from the Pop-up. After a few seconds, a window will pop up giving a list of the files that Wrye Bash believes can be merged, either partially or fully, into its Bashed Patch file. If they weren't alredy, you may now notice that the text has changed colour for some of the mod names, and the boxes to the left of the names may also have changed colour. Scroll down towards the bottom of your mod list. Ideally right at the bottom, you should find a file marked "Bashed Patch, 0.esp". If this is not present, follow the instructions in the Wrye Bash readme to locate it and copy it (NOT move it) to the correct place, then re-run BOSS. Once you have a "Bashed Patch" file, the next stage is to USE it. Right-click the file, and select "Rebuild patch". Another popup will appear (unless you, for some reason, have no mergeable mods)... "The following mods are mergeable. While it is not important to Wrye Bash functionality or the end contents of the bashed patch, it is suggest that they be deactivated and merged into the patch; this (helps) avoid the Oblivion maximum esp/m limit." There will then be a list of mod files, followed by "Automatically deactivate those mods now?" Click "Yes". The next popup has DOZENS of options in the left-hand window. They should currently all be un-ticked (clear). The one we are interested in this first time through is the second item on the list, "Merge Patches". Put a tick in the box next to it, and then tick all of the files which appear in the right-hand window by selecting the "Select all" button. Now click the button marked "Build Patch". A popup will tell you that the program is working, and give you a progress bar. Once completed, another popup will tell you what it did, so just hit "OK". It will probably prompt you to "Activate the Bashed patch" - do so by clicking the box next to it, and a tick will appear. The ticks in some of the other boxes will have disappeared now, or been replaced with + or dot marks. This tells you what their new status is. You may now close Wrye Bash, and run Oblivion, and the whole things SHOULD work just as before, but with less files active, so a smaller load list. There are lots of other options for building the Bashed patch, and there are myriad advanced functions in the program, but you have now performed the equivalent of turning the key in the ignition. The rest comes with practice and experimentation.

The Khajiit and Argonian races in Oblivion look very little like they should too - unlike Morrowind where they had beast-like proportions to their legs at least. In oblivion they look like cheap "man in a suit" creatures. I'd take that as somewhat imprecise evidence - they wouldn't waste animators' time on one creature for one small quest if they couldn't even get the beast races correct... I'm not disagreeing with you, it's just the evidence has to be filtered through the time spent on some aspects of the game. To be fair, MarkinMKUK, it's speculated that we've seen a different variety of Argonian in just about every Elder Scrolls game thus far (the ones in Arena look grossly different from those in Morrowind, for instance). Like the Khajiit, there are in fact several varieties of Argonian, each variety *probably* influenced by their proximity to the Hist and the extent to which they consume their sap. See the "Tribes" section on this page for more information: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian I admit, it's a bit of a cop-out, but at least there's some sort of explanation for why the Argonians look so much different in one game when compared to another game. The same can be said of Khajiiti appearance throughout the series. ...and a bunch of us are working on putting more "correct" legs back onto our Khajiit and Argonian characters - and the rest of the races too. Just because Bethesda don't do it, doesn't mean the modders can't fix it later... just takes time. Edit: There's an unwritten rule that you only spot the obvious typo AFTER you press the "Post" button. I prove it almost EVERY time I post... :(

For those who are interested in aiming for a "more realistic" medieval clothing look for men (and for that matter women) in the game, may I point you towards this thread - Men's Medieval Clothing . Anyone capable of making meshes for clothing is especially welcome :) . For people interested in discissung "realism in the game" generally, please feel free to wander over to Keeping it "Real" where (as long as you are polite and respect the other person's right to hold a different viewpoint) we are happy to discuss anything to add to the immersion experience of the game - be it background technology, clothing, buildings, or whatever.

Well spotted! It's always nice to add the omissions back into the game.

So much to choose from :) Both of the linked sites are great resources for picking "a look" and starting to try to recreate it. All we need now is a bored mesh creater :) <starts to lay out bait and a trap>

This site has some good clear photos of reproduction outfits. Also includes colour and texture references for linen.

@Utyran - don't be defeatist! There are still mods being made and released for Morrowind, which is about five years older still.

How about a "proof of concept" stage where a retextured vanilla outfit or two are made, and an esp created to add them into levelled lists and to a couple of easy-to-find npcs? That tests several parts of what is needed. Meanwhile if there is someone who can mod meshes, creating one new set of meshes for (say) upper class characters for all of the listed body types would give a new "base model" for the next batch of texturing. Neither of these will hold up work on the other, so both can happen at the same time.

OK - we have a couple of victims volunteers for re-texturing work. So, let's try to define the scope of work more carefully. First point: Which Body or Bodies? Much simpler task than with female characters as there are only two main male bodies - Vanilla Oblivion and Roberts Male (although Roberts V4 and Roberts V5 may need different clothing - can anyone confirm or disprove this? Second point - a list of what exists in-game already - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Clothing Thirdly - adding items as aquirable one-offs for the character's own outfit, or adding them to the levelled lists and to the general population? Fourthly - There needs to be a female version of EVERYTHING you make (as outfits are generally not gender-specific and need both male and female versions or you get some very "odd" outfits), and THEN you start needing to support the assorted female body types: Vanilla, UFF, Roberts female, Exnem's, HGEC, TGND, DMRA, etc. ad nauseum. My suggestion is to look carefully at the existing list of clothing, and see how many additional items can be created by just re-texturing "stock" clothing - hopefully that'll mean only having to create 7 new textures per item of clothing (Vanilla Male / Vanilla Female / Roberts Male / Roberts Female / BAB / UFF / Exnems/HGEC variants ) as the underlying meshes already exist in stock clothing replacer sets. Additional armour is a whole new ball game, and should probably not be lumped in with the stock clothing. Comments?

Page 3 reference may be lost on US readers...

There's a problem with Windows UAC if you install in the defaut place on the computer. If you move the installation to C:aGames\Oblivion, in other words out of the Program Files directory, it is far easier to mod without problems This is my generic advice post: If you have Windows Vista or Windows 7and are thinking of modding, do yourself (and us, because you'd no doubt be asking for help with it later) a BIG favour and use Bben46's guide here to move the game from the default install position to C:\Games\Oblivion. That stops the UAC from mucking up just about every mod you try to use, including (sometimes) official patches. Many mods will require you to be patched to version 1.2.0416, and a lot will require the Shivering Isles expansion - if you don't already have Shivering Isles, buy it and add it to the game, THEN patch it (otherwise you'll need to uninstall and reinstall from scratch to add Shivering Isles later). I strongly suggest adding the Unofficial Oblivion Patch (UOP), the Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch (UOSP), and (if you have Knights of the Nine and/or any of the official downloadable content files, the Unofficial Official Mods Patch (UOMP), plus the Unofficial Patch Supplementals and the UOP Dark Sister Voice Fix. They between them bugfix several thousand bugs and errors, and make the game much better to play. Other "essential" mods are Oblivion Script Extender (OBSE), and then Fast Exit and Windom Earle's Oblivion Crash Prevention System (weOCPS) - the pair of those greatly aid stability and stop many of the more common crash scenarios from wrecking your game.

Remember that any clothing you pick can only be applied as Footwear, Bottom-half wear, Top-half wear, hat, and gloves - there are no more easy-to-use slots. Capes can be added using a spare jewellery slot, but not if you want to wear the jewellery too. Edited for typos :(