TheLoreSeeker

You lost me. Who said anything about Ulfric?...And whether or not the Bear of Markarth can be used as evidence, that won't eliminate the fact that the Markarth Incident did in fact happen. The Reachmen still in Markarth make it plain that the Forsworn are "lost", they aren't what they once stood for. And like I said...I had hoped that Madanach would chill them out and unite them again...but they seem to all be scattered and crazy now...and Madanach has sworn to kill all the Nords.

As for Siddgeir....yeah he's a worthless piece of crap. But....as it has been stated, he doesn't give a crap about running his hold...and all that stuff is handled by his steward Nenya. She is an elf yes...but she was Dengeir's steward too, and seems to be focused on the well being of the people. Dengeir is one of the jarls that disappointed me the a lot. I was all for him until I started to notice that he may in fact be getting senile like they say. And if not senile...at least paranoid. Poor Lod and Tekla....they were super loyal to Dengeir and the old man didn't even take that into account when he accused them of being spies. Essentially he just doesn't trust the people he should rely on.

The issue with the Forsworn is that they only became the Forsworn after the Markarth Incident. Before that they were just normal guerrilla rebels. The alchemist in Markarth explains this. She calls them fools that break her heart because they've let it go so far. They've devolved into a crazy hill-tribe culture because they had no leadership and were up against a wall grasping for power to defend themselves. So essentially each little group of Forsworn is leading themselves. With Madanach free, I had hoped he'd be able to unite his people....but he seems just as bent on revenge as anyone.

Korir's problem is that he wants to blame the collapse on the Mage's because he's afraid of them. He's looking for a scapegoat and they just so happen to be the strangest and most vulnerable people to place the blame upon. Truthfully.....accepting the college would be better for him and his hold. He'd have them as allies rather than a neutral party. Thongvor....has always confused me. At first I had no love for Igmund and was like "Oh yeah, replacing this guy makes perfect sense." But then Thongvor made some off hand comments about enslaving the Forsworn for the Silver-Bloods and my hopes for Markarth went straight down the toilet. Maven. Now that's a tricky situation. Either way, it can't be denied that Maven Black-Briar is pretty much the ruler of Riften, no matter who you side with. She's a ruthless, heartless b****.....but she understands money and power. The chance that Riften will prosper under her direct leadership is good because she controls all aspects of the economy. Downside is....Riften will be in the hands of Maven...and although I don't "like" Leila (seeing as how her very first conversation with her steward entails her "escape plan" in case the city comes under attack) I don't necessarily want Maven to "win".

I usually kick Elenwen out, Trade Dawnstar and Winterhold to the Imperials, refuse to pay for the "massacre", and hand over the Reach to the Stormcloaks. I see this as a fair trade...because it keeps the war stalled at a stalemate while trading out 2 bothersome Jarls and NOT sacrificing Riften to Maven (although it would probably be better for the economy). Since the Reach is surrounded by Imperial property it doesn't strengthen the rebels either, but it does cut off the Imperial cash cow so any Imperial warmongers can't profit on it.

I tend to stay neutral in season unending. It usually results in a compromise I'm OK with.....except Markarth goes over to Thongvor....but then again...Markarth is pretty screwed up anyway.

I don't think that the machinations and desires of the Aedra (or the Daedra for that matter) are something either side can use in the debate. They are simply too much of an unknown to rely upon. We're not even really all that sure that the Elven Gods and the Human Gods are different people. I mean...as far as lore goes theres reason to debate Akatosh and Auri-El as being the same person....and if that's the case...who do we trust?

Chillrend?

Yeah but by rebelling they are not only endangering themselves but also ALL those people who didn't want to rebel.

"I said there that Torygg probably was a good king by imperial standards - and Sybille definitely is an imperial. My point was, that the imperial standards aren't exactly everybody's standards." My issue with this argument is that "Imperial standards" ARE Skyrim's standards. Skyrim is part of the Empire...and it has been since there was an Empire to be part of. I've seen it mentioned over and over that "the High Kings were Imperial puppets" but in reality, Skyrim ISN'T a sovereign nation or an autonomous state that just being buddy buddy with or controlled by the Empire, it IS the Empire. Everyone in Skyrim is an Imperial citizen. It's the difference in relations between the US & the UK vs the US & Hawaii. Hawaii may be further from the center of government and have different cultural values and history...but its still affected by decisions made in DC. It's the same thing here. The values being preached by Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are those of the Ancient Nord warlords and kings from BEFORE Tiber Septim's reign, from before the Empire. That doesn't make those values wrong...it just means that Skyrim as it is in the 4th Era is an Imperial Skyrim, and runs according to Imperial laws and governance. It still holds Nord cultural values, but it IS an imperial state. Now this leads to another issue. The Empire that everyone swore allegiances to was the Septim one....not the Mede dynasty. BUT none of the nations bolted AFTER Titus Mede I took power, so warlord or not, there must be something to this notion of an empire. Really a better time for the North to quit the Empire would have been during the Interregum, since they could have claimed to refuse to honor a "new dynasty".

Neither Ulfric or Rikke are married though....and neither has living family to worry about...and both are soldiers, so it is reasonable that their thoughts would be about their country, since that is what they dedicated their lives to. Torygg on the other hand, had JUST gotten married. He was a man in love and he cared about his family. It makes sense to me.

I am gonna go with either they knew they couldn't hold Hammerfell....since the Redguards are crazy good fighters OR the entirety of the Hammerfell government wanted to leave. Its different than whats going on in Skyrim because the "powers in charge of Skyrim" were usurped. I think it's the Empire's duty to its provinces to step in if someone tries to overthrow the government.

I don't like Maven Black-Briar as much as the next man....but since Riften is OBVIOUSLY run on well maintained criminal business, she WOULD be better for it than Leila....who seems kind of ignorant of the problems.

In reality its probably more along the lines of Torygg represented Post-United Empire Nord Culture, which seems to be more inclusive and treats Skyrim as part of a bigger picture (i.e. The Empire of Tamriel); while Ulfric represents a Pre-United Empire Nord Culture, that values strength and "the old ways" and sees Skyrim as an individual kingdom.

2 things. How the duel was won was a moot point. Using the voice goes against the teachings of the Greybeards....the respected Masters of the Voice. Whether or not voice or sword killed Torygg isn't relevant. All we know is that he used it....which isn't technically cheating, but it definitely isn't an "honorable" duel at that point. Second point. WHY is it such a crime that Torygg cared about his wife and was worried for her when he died? Isn't it expected that a person would worry about the loved ones they left behind? His country would be fine without him...he knew that when he accepted the duel. But his wife...that is another story. I just don't see why people go "he only cared about her. That means he was a bad king." Wouldn't the fact that he cared about family make him a good man? The truth is we don't know what kind of king he was because he's dead when we start the game; but his court liked him, his queen liked him, and at least half his people and aristocracy liked him. So that speaks of his credentials as king somewhat. And look at Elisif. She was his queen and ALL she cares about is the people of Skyrim....wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that she didn't just suddenly have a personality switch once Torygg died. I think it's fine to assume that she's running court in a similar fashion to what he did.

Did you take into account the 'Become Ethereral' Shout? or Odahving? He could just summon him to pick him up.

It's the master of the Courier's Guild of course. A man like the master postman would be in the know about a lot of things...including the locations of various ruins and tombs. Perhaps he/she is trying to urge the Dragonborn along into embracing their destiny because the dragons are really beginning to wreak havoc on the postal system.

Isn't it stated that the character was "caught trying to cross the border"? I mean....its odd that its BAM straight to execution....did we fence jump or something? They don't even bother with deportation.

He's got a set of 3 books laying around his area all about the dwarves. And theres a bunch more in his museum.... good place to look for research material.

Seek out Calcelmo....for he the expert on the Dwemer.

Quick! Make an edit correction before the Cloaks catch wind of it! The High King of Skyrim gave Solstheim to the Dunmer in 4E 16......it's currently 4E 201. That's 185 years wrong.

Congrats Ulfric!!! and Goodbye, it has been fun. Good luck with raising a little Stormcloak!

He did cave to Elenwen's torture and give up information that "helped them sack the Imperial City" in exchange for his freedom. Or at least he THINKS thats what happened.

While imprisoned during the Great War, he was tortured by Elenwen for information, which if eventually gave up. Although he gave them this information after the Imperial City had been taken, the Dominion falsely led him to believe that the information was used in the sack of the White Gold Tower in Cyrodiil. Ulfric was then allowed to escape prison and he returned to Skyrim. "Allowed to escape."

True, Galmar is no diplomat. He even states it himself. "Your words give voice to what we all feel, Ulfric. And that's why you will be High King. But the day words are enough, will be the day when soldiers like us are no longer needed." He's a soldier through and through....and hes got no time for words.