Bear with me a moment as I have you all..You know this discussion could go around the twist so many times, till all our knickers are in a twist.. and still end up with no answer..that will satisfy anyone..Why because we are dealing with vastly different perspective in what it is called 'evil' and is called 'good'..There are no rights and wrongs for each perspective is ones own right.. I feel from what I read, even though this was a Q DO 'evil' or darker characters need more love is what I responded to since it was the subject matter..but the avoidance of that Q makes me ponder why..so lets fence aliitle friendly like Ok..just for the craic.. Until this endless debate on what makes evil and good..Is a vampire evil, was the count of Skingrad evil, was he not disgusted with the vile creatures as he called them that had sunk to animalistic behaviours and nothing more natures.. Even he as a vampire knew there was a difference..So vampirism in and by itself is not evil, even joining the DB in not 'evil' if one chooses it..one can Dl a mod and also skip the pufication another choice.. Think about it, when you kill Rufio, and (spoiler alerts)he says I have done nothing, and you say oh yes you have and he goes on, to say, I told her not to struggle..Then in my eyes the *censored* deserved to die, it can be conjectured he obviously from his words, raped a womon..and killed her, in those times, justice was death, we cannot judge the actions, according to the rules of this world, but the ways of a world more based on older times.. Even the Dark mother who like the Dark Goddess is misunderstood, and called evil, yet is She or does she also have two sides, one that those who are 'evil' by choice, draw and call out of her, and one to pass judgement on those guilty of crimes, that the Empire would just pass by since corruption in high places, oft turns a blind eye..to protect themselves is why.. No justice, reigns, so you kill him, and avenge a womon who was violated and killed..Is it 'evil' or justice. Even if I accidentally kill someone ion battle, Lucien visits me, and I am not in the mood to go that direction, I simply refuse, or because I know what Rufio guilty of now on my mind,, I it do as a freebee and still don't go to the sanctuary.. Am I 'evil' no, for in my eyes, Rufios crime, is a death sentence.. Once here in Ireland and other countries, there were the Old Ones.. that were the ones that kept men in line, and would simply curse them, to keep justice alive as corruption took its seat in high places..with corrupt leaders of the ages..So they became justice, the dark Mothers work aye indeed, dark does not mean 'evil' until the burnings..Did that make them 'evil' in today's world I suppose so, in Oblivion's world is that line so clear anymore.. Choices, one acts like this game forces, one to be 'good', so they rebel and try to become all evil..The game forces nothing unless you submit to it, or just play your game..in the moment of where you are.. Deadric worship good or evil, some perhaps, some just mischievous, I say nothing is so black and white so to speak although I hate usuing those terms.. Grey areas all over if you look.. depending, for what of Azura.. Even Necromancy all 'evil' not necessarily so..Play the Origin of the Mages Guild mod by giskard… A real eye opener to the grey areas, which you get to as Arch Mage change if you so wish, and redo the Mages Guild, from thee ground up, with the possibility of overturning his ruling on Necromancy and Vampiric guilds, and their place in Cyrodill. Now there's a power position worth pursuing.. So..since you all want to have this debate, think for a moment..'Good' and 'evil' based on today's real world term, since those that define that those terms are biased anyway usaully..unless we are talking real psycho-sociopathic stuff.. That is sick, but still do not count in this world of Oblvian.. There will always be, exceptions to the rule, who decides, power pure evil as a decision, are doomed to fail, aye its is a proven fact..in any world incl Oblivion.. In the eyes of the Imperial Empire, perhaps it is defined.. so since when has the empire of any world, been a valid judge of what is good and what is evil, right or wrong, usually based in prejudice usually biased relgious ideals..interwoven with political ideologies.. So on the premises, pure evil, pure good, dose not exist, unless one chooses just to never do anything from their darker moods and moments, or a darker charectors decides never to do a good deed, and just kill, wihtout conscience like the viler creatures, Janus stated himself that have returned to a pure animlistic nature with no conscience.. There is your answer if one has no conscience never does a good act, and cares for no one not even a companion, then and only then could one be considered truly evil and that is choice..The narrow minded view of Oh one is in the DB, they are evil..Is nonsense, for I have been and that was just a job, the rest of the time I helped people…So neutral is a more viable description for most people, who at times give into the darker sides, and sometimes their lighter sides, but does true 'evil' or true 'good' for that matter exists..for us as players.. Plain and simple vampires are not 'evil' by nature, unless they choose to have no conscience.. For those of you searching for pure evil, to conquer and defy all, and rule, as all evil empires have realised, that which is based on congest alone, usually at some point are doomed to fall..and fail..If you care nothing for the people who serve you, one day they will betray you.. For as the original Q asked do darker charectors need love..If not they are doomed to fail..that is the crux of this matter.. Once it was asked..is better to be feared, or repsected.. All true great rulers that have gained some wisdom will choose respected, or they are doomed to fail..For they are feared not respected, to be respected would call for some acts of kindness towards those that serve them, and if none exists...Pure evil charectors, can never run an empire for long, they are doomed to fail, be betrayed or assassinated. Historically it's a proven fact, and so in Oblivion it is also…Its not that good prevails…I believe its neutrality prevails..For its that fine line, between the two…that usually gains respect, for they neither demand all goodness, or all evil, but for others just to be. So what is the purpose of a debate that has nothing to do with the orginal Q asked of us. There I had my piece, its why I do not post in forums, I get drawn in, and always regret it…better I stay silent..My blunt Honesty isn't always well received...its why I I keep saying I will not got to forums, only reply about mods..so I give it a go and see..for this is an International one and a bit more opened minded..hopefully.. Debate is healthy, but round and round going nowhere, trying to debate a moot point, based on different perspectives usually leads to arguments, IME..and leads nowhere… Now can we get back to the original Q. asked by the person who asked it…as fairness to the one who started this topic..Is love necessary for those who lean more to the darker side..Or is that who needs love Q just to scary to address.. Fencing is fun, and we love it here, wher I am from, as is honest challenges to think, as long as its fair play..and good craic.. :wink: My answer we all do, no matter what path we choose, or we are doomed to be betrayed fall, and fail.. Cheers mates
