Gopher

I am a 'Fallout 3 Fanboi', and yet I am the one suggesting it. There seems to be something wrong with your theory. Perhaps if you were to concentrate on trying to be less offensive you might avoid making a fool of yourself. Kill two birds with one stone so to speak. And yes, before you ask, I played Fallout 1 first, when it was first released, and so yes I have been a long time dedicated fan. And yes, I am a 'real' fan and the whole 'no true scotsman' fallacy thing wont work on me. Not all 'fans' enjoyed Fallout 1 for the same reasons as you, and so some will feel FO3 came closer to FO1 than FNV did. You are free to think the opposite, and that is perfectly normal because it just means you got different things out of the original game than did I. Now feel free to stay and chat about my idea, but do try to behave. We are having a grown up conversation about a game we all enjoy. We are not 'a feudin' over wether Spong Bob could take down Tinky Winky in a fair fight.

I absolutely 100% agree with that. I actually think if he released an update for that mod with some different voice actors for the bad guys, it would literally be DLC level content. Great dialogue aswell. People would be lining up to get cast in an updated version of that mod :) I should try that out, been meaning to get some more content for the game but didnt want to get anything half done. Or that would tilt the rest of the game plot wise in such a way as to make it not fit in. It is totally isolated from the main quest, so you can do it at any time. The opponents vary in difficulty so you can start at lvl 5 or 6 and just do one contract every level or so. Or if you are 20+ you can probably manage them all as a single focused sprint. It is a lot of fun because whilst it is a simple concept, he adds a lot of character to the guy giving the missions, and you really get a feel for the bountiess you are hunting. The only downside is he did all the voive acting himself (whilst trying to sound different). And even that is forgivable because he is a pretty good voice actor.

I absolutely 100% agree with that. I actually think if he released an update for that mod with some different voice actors for the bad guys, it would literally be DLC level content. Great dialogue aswell. People would be lining up to get cast in an updated version of that mod :)

Should be reasonably easy to implement. I also would not mind something more like the handheld Pipboy 2000. And if they built that into the game it would make it easier to mod new handheld pipboys.

Don't worry, I am not going to judge the entire series by this one thing. I still rank New Vegas as a damned good game no matter what. I got more than my moneys worth out of the game and the DLC so as much as I will complain about certain aspects, I am in no way condemning the game as a whole.

Was thinking of getting it running on my Netbook instead, so I could play it on the bus to work :)

I did. He is a moron and needs to be shot in the face again :) To be honest, the story really never got me anyway. It was way too vague and disconnected. It felt like the plot to one of those sci-fi series where you secretly suspect the producers dont really have an endgame in mind when they made the pilot and you just watch because each individual episode is good. But as it gets close to the end of everyones interest they sort of feel the need to wrap things up and have it make sense and suddenly the hallucinations one of the main characters was having was not actually a hallucination but was an angel and so was one of the pilots .... we think ..... So it did not ruin the story in itself. I play the game for the sidequests (official and mods). I can just skip the last DLC if I ever replay it. It is not really an issue for me anymore. I am only really back on the thread because people keep replying to me and I am an insomniac :)

That picture looks pretty bulky to me. The screen alone is supposed to be 3 inches across by 5 inches deep, so the whole face of the thing would be approx 6 x 5.5 . Probably would have a little more on the edge that you cant see, so call it 6.5 inches by 6 inches minimum. And that is metal, and require securing at more than just the wrist. You would need straps or clamps at both ends. Assuming more metal rather than leather straps (and in the Fallout world that seems reasonable). Honestly, when I look at the mock up in this link: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/imageshare/image.php?id=6816 and the picture you posted, I can imagine that picture going right on the faceplate of that model pretty much at the sizes I just listed. But to be honest, seeing as the Pipboy 2000 BE edition was a PDA type thing (albeit a huge one), there is no reason they could not have something like that for Fallout 4 now that I think of it. Both the arm mounted and PDA versions are lore I guess. It just should not be something like a bloody iPhone :)

Probably my age then. Old men like to relive old stories over and over :) I am actually trying to find my old copy of FO1 and install it to do another playthrough, which is why I suddenly came up with this idea. Shame we would be breaking the law if we did it ourselves and uploaded it.

There you go with the insults again. And I am sorry, but the game tells you that you have to open the silo door to finish the launch sequence, and that the door you need to walk through wont open until you do. And if you point out that your character could not figure that out, then explain to me why he bothered pulling that lever then? I mean that makes the courier ever dumber than I previously feared. He is now pulling random levers in a nuclear silo with zero reason whatsoever. But to be honest, you are seriously reaching anyway. Lets face it, you took one look at that console and it had 'PUSH TO NUKE' written all over it in giant neon letters. It could not have been more obvious if a fat man in a pink tutu had jumped up on the console and started to sing 'Armegedon is here again' and making suggestive nods to the launch lever :P Then we do not get the same out of the Fallout games as the other does. I do not play this as an arcade game, I play it for the story. Just because the game is a sci-fi story does not excuse sloppy plot devices. I have no idea why you would think I would do that, or why I would agree not to post on the Nexus forums. It is like when I see a movie with horrible plot holes and I point them out to my friends, they dont tell me to write to the producer. They just chat with me about it. That is what we are doing here. Just chatting about stuff. Some of us even manage to do it politely :) No. I WAS a good guy. Then I deliberately and accepting that what I was doing might kill me or thousands of innocents pulled the lever knowing that not only had I committed a act of unspeakable stupidity and selfishness, I was also probably falling right into the trap the whining Ulysses was setting for me. It was NOT a mistake. I literally was 99% sure a nuke would fly, and so was my character. There is no way round that. I cannot realistically tell myself that my intelligent Courier was unable to figure it out and still keep any respect for him. It was like all of a sudden I totally agreed with Ulysses and felt the Courier was a total git and deserved a bullet in the face. At that point immersion broke down and I left the story. The game did in fact become an arcade game for me too. Now my courier is a collection of values on a computer and I didn't even bother finishing off the main quest after finishing Lonesome Road. That playthrough is over and unrecoverable. And again with the insults. And if they are going to make the game linear, they should not put in things that require you to be criminally stupid or criminally insane. I too did not like the linear nature of Dead Money, but nothing in that forced me to do something so stupid. I mean if Lonesome Road had made me fall through a ceiling and accidentally land on the launch button, then OK, I get it, its an accident (at least story wise). Actually in my good playthrough I saved ED-E and nuked the legion. Just because I am intelligent does not mean I am a pascifist. And I felt good about launching that nuke.

I was just thinking that if they built the game worlds for FO1 and 2, and put the quests and dialogue in completely unchanged so it was literally the same story but on the Fallout New Vegas engine, would you buy it? I know I would :) And I figure seeing as they dont need to spend money/time on the story and quests, it would just be a matter of cranking out the worldspace, and porting the quests in. Surely that would be a lot less effort than a whole new game. Am I nuts?

Also true, even the hand held version of the Pipboy (which was never used by the main character in FO1 and 2) was a sort of large clunky kind of device. I get what you're saying about the transistor but this is not entirely consistent -the water chip in Fallout 1 is supposed to be a "chip" and that is at odds with the whole transistor thing. The actual water chip looks retro futuristic in style but still it's ambiguous at the very least. The pipboy that the Vault Dweller wore wasn't clunky by any means even if the original Vault Dweller from Vault 13 wore it on his wrist (note his wrist, not his entire forearm). I'll post this link one more time: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/images/36765-4-1289138144.jpg Do you really see a TV set wrapped around the original Vault Dweller's arm? :happy: I don't see anything on his arm mate which is not surprising as that is not an in game picture. It is an artists impression. The game itself is what defines Fallout 1 for me, not some artists impression. Now I understand if you want to define it by the art, that is ok. Sometimes the artwork is better than the in game stuff (Couriers duster for example). But you have to understand, that picture does not match the actual game lore. At least not as I am aware. I am fairly sure the only fallout game where the main character did not have an arm mounted pipboy is Fallout Tactics. But I never played that one so I would not know first hand. No offence but have you ever played Fallout 1? Because this picture is from the ending video from Fallout 1. It is part of the game. If you need to refresh your memory here is a video for you to watch: Besides if you look at the in game characters you can't see any pipboy so I really don't get the point you're trying to make about Fallout Tactics. Try looking at gameplay videos from the first Fallout (and Fallout 2) and then tell me where you can see "an arm mounted pipboy" in Fallout 1 or 2 because I've never seen any. No offense taken, and yes I have played the game many times, although the last time was about 5 years ago :) And yeah it is possible my memory is being affected by recent games, so I will dig out my copy and reinstall it, and see myself. But I would like to reiterate, that picture (or animated video) is still only an artists rendition of your character walking into history after the game, and in no way represents the character you played 'in game'. It is not 'in game'. During the game is what I consider lore. Otherwise if that image (or animated video) defined lore, then the vault dweller would have to be male and wearing a vault suit at the end of the game. Obviously this is not the case. It is just an artists fancy. The current and seemingly uncontested lore on Fallout sites is that the Pipboy worn by the main character in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 was the Pipboy 2000 Plus and was either 'arm mounted' or 'worn on the wrist'. It is generally described as cumbersome, and judging by the image seen in game, it is a solidly made metal object. http://www.newvegasnexus.com/imageshare/image.php?id=6816 http://www.fonline2238.net/wiki/Pip-Boy http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pip-Boy_2000 http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pip-Boy I am not suggesting everything online must be true, but I have yet to find a single link that suggests the Pipboy worn by the Vault Dweller or The Chosen One were anything other than the wrist/arm mounted pipboy 2000 plus. But as I said, I will dig out my copy and replay it. Will be fun anyway :)

Also true, even the hand held version of the Pipboy (which was never used by the main character in FO1 and 2) was a sort of large clunky kind of device. I get what you're saying about the transistor but this is not entirely consistent -the water chip in Fallout 1 is supposed to be a "chip" and that is at odds with the whole transistor thing. The actual water chip looks retro futuristic in style but still it's ambiguous at the very least. The pipboy that the Vault Dweller wore wasn't clunky by any means even if the original Vault Dweller from Vault 13 wore it on his wrist (note his wrist, not his entire forearm). I'll post this link one more time: http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/images/36765-4-1289138144.jpg Do you really see a TV set wrapped around the original Vault Dweller's arm? :happy: I don't see anything on his arm mate which is not surprising as that is not an in game picture. It is an artists impression. The game itself is what defines Fallout 1 for me, not some artists impression. Now I understand if you want to define it by the art, that is ok. Sometimes the artwork is better than the in game stuff (Couriers duster for example). But you have to understand, that picture does not match the actual game lore. At least not as I am aware. I am fairly sure the only fallout game where the main character did not have an arm mounted pipboy is Fallout Tactics. But I never played that one so I would not know first hand.

Also true, even the hand held version of the Pipboy (which was never used by the main character in FO1 and 2) was a sort of large clunky kind of device.

Actually not true, the pipboy you had in Fallout 1 was also a cumbersome arm worn device, much like the Pipboy 3000. The original Pipboy 2000 was a PDA like device (although more the size of a slim lunchbox), BUT the main characters in Fallout 1 and 2 did not get the Pipboy 2000. They actually got the Pipboy 2000 Plus, which was similar to the Pipboy 3000 in Fallout 3.

Feel free to not post on any of my threads again unless you can learn to be remotely civil. I don't mind disagreement with my take on the story line, but this sort of childish name calling over a plot disagreement is ridiculous. And no you did not open my mind with that, because I had no idea Ulysses was going to nuke the mojave, and I suspected he needed something from me anyway. And even had I thought he was going to nuke the Mojave, I also knew he would not do it without talking to me first. Basically it was pitifully obvious he needed the meeting with me way more than I with him. And your point that 'it is just a game' and therefore my actions have no real world consequences proves my argument perfectly. That is exactly what I hated about this DLC. It made the game into a glorified arcade game where I was unable to immerse myself in the ROLE of my courier (without changing his character into a psycho or an idiot).

You cannot have spent much time around Fallout fans :) Oh they can care. They can care to the point of being slightly worrying. Each fan has his own idea of what a 'real' fallout game should have, and will attack with ruthless abandon anything or anyone who dares disagree. Even having the option to change Pipboy in the Vanilla game will cause mayhem and gnashing of teeth in the extreme. I guarantee it. Sacred symbols such as the Pipboy, Vault, Ghouls etc would be best left untouched by the developers and modders can take that up without risk of the mob lyching them. Trust me on this: Don't mess with the lore!

You mean ever since FO1 ? And if they did, I honestly thing the game would simply flop. I know the readus is a popular mod, but hardcore Fallout fans are going to simply boycott the game if it does not have the pipboy :) edit: Or did you mean keep the pipboy but make it less bulky or something? I would be ok for that, but the original games definately had a bulky one too.

That is true, but frankly I have two problems with that: 1. They don't actually make that abundantly clear in the game. It never seems to come up, or be pointed out. Some sort of warning to get you scared seems in order. 2. It is difficult to imagine the Mojave Express are somehow more scary than a mafia boss. And if they were, I think Benny would be more afraid of them than me once he found out I was alive (and assumingly had reported an attack on one of their couriers). And yeah, I am like this with movies that have weak spots in plots too. Stuff like this gets under my skin and itches. I like things to make sense even in a fantasy or sci-fi plot :)

That is the very definition of a bruised ego :) You got over the damage to your body, but not the damage to your ego. The problem with it is that revenge is a hard motivation to sustain for any length of time. After a short time you tend to just get over it and get on with life. It all depends on how much effort and risk there is in seeking the revenge. Going after a mafia boss is massive risk and effort, especially if you are just a low level noob with no real assets. In the end I only killed Benny because I wanted the chip for the quest to continue and see where it went. There was no emotion in that quest for me because I did not take it personally. For me it would have been better if Benny had done something like shot my mother, or stole something of serious sentimental value. Something I can sink my teeth into and use as an emotional hook. The main quest was very 'neutral' for me. I much preferred quests like Boones or Veronicas quests. They really got to me. Dragged me in heart and soul.

Personally I still play FO3 whereas NV is more or less done for me now. I loved NV side quests, loved the NV dialogue, and felt the companion experience was much better (especially in Dead Money). But the game just missed the sweet spot for me. I missed the DC ruins, I missed GNR, I missed being from a vault (especially that moment when you left the vault and stepped into the wasteland for the first time), and I really missed having interesting enemies. The legion were just a little too unsatisfying compared to the Enclave. And I will take masses of super mutants over cazadors any day of the week :) What I really want from FO4 is this: From FO3: 1. Better main protagonist with a simple backstory with some strong emotional anchors. I don't want my past to involve much, as I want to be an innocent weakling when I start. Vault dweller is my preference. I like vaults. 2. Better world space. DC ruins were beutiful and the waterfront skyline was breathtaking in its destroyed splendor. I also preferred the OTT cities like Megaton and Rivet city. 3. A more personal main quest. Something human and believable for someone my age. I am way too old to believe the whole 'revenge for getting mugged' thing. Sorry, but experience has shown me people like to mouth off about how they want revenge, but usually once they calm down they just get on with their lives. Only the truly stupid risk their necks for a bruised ego. 4. Better radio station. Enough said. 5. Better enemies. Seriously, cazadors? You try killing one without VATs on hardest difficulty? Its a bug for gods sake! Dying to a super mutant behemoth is one thing, but dying to a multi colored bug? From FNV: Everything else :) eg. 1. Longer main quest. FO3 main quest was way too short. 2. Better dialogue. 3. Better companion experience. 4. Iron sights, hardcore mode, weapon mods, and other things they have lifted right from the modding community. 5. Ammo types and crafting. 6. Factions rather than karma. 7. Better use of skills and specials (Speech skill being actually useful is awesome!). 8. More wacky wasteland moments (oh and dont make it a trait, make it vanilla and give an option to disable for people who don't get the jokes).

First of all you talk about how the game is not linear, but as far as I can see the last DLC was exactly linear. Second of all you say I have choices, but you dont present me a single choice on the silo door. To me it looks like I either launch a nuke, or dont play the DLC. Not much of a choice really. And were the answers you got from ulysses really worth it? If that nuke had landed on Vegas and wiped everyone out, would that have been ok for the answers you got from him at the end? Or some innocent city in what used to be enemy terrioty centuries ago? Because there is no way you could know that would not happen. You can point out that it did not hapen, but when you pulled that lever you had to know it was a real possibility. You had to put your answers above the lives of possibly thousands of innocents. And your character is ok with that? If so, all I can say is that the character you created for Fallout New Vegas is a full blown sociopath :)

Incorrect. Both Fallout 1 and 2 had friends and family. In Fallout 1 you basically play the whole game assuming you will live happily ever after with your friends and family back in your home vault. It probably has one of the strongest emotional anchors and backstories of any of the Fallout game. In fact Fallout 3 was very reminiscent of Fallout 1 in that you end up saving the vault but the people you still get kicked out after you save them. And the problem with your idea of ME making the backstory is that the backstory (and in fact entire personality) of my courier was simply swept away by this final DLC. That is the probem with giving a character a backstory at the end of a game rather than the start. Anything I come up with is probably wrong. I am constantly trying to adjust my backstory to match new info I get. In the first 3 games you had all the info about your past (at least from a first person perspective) and you could develop your character as you saw fit from there. Good or evil? Tough guy or a ladies man? All up to you. YOU developed you character from there. But in New Vegas the game develops your character for you. It does. You cannot get away from the fact that in this DLC it literally forces you to be an thoughtless idiot so that it can tell you off for being a thoughtless idiot. That is pretty much the whole point of the DLC. To give you a new personality: The Thoughtless Idiot. And as for not seeing what in the main story classifies him as an idiot or psychopath I could start at the beginning and be here quite some time, or point out that pretty much Ulysses confirms that you are a thoughtless idiot by everything you have done in the game so far, but I am focusing right now on the fact that he opened the silo doors. Unless he has psychopathic and slightly suicidal tendancies, I see no reason on earth why anyone with INT above 1 would open that door. None. To find Ulysses and ask him some questions? Release a nuke just to get some closure from a self absorbed whining guy with bad dreads and a face mask? And you had to know he wanted you there for some other reason than a chat and a fight. You literally had to be pretty dim to not suspect you were bringing something with you he needed for some dastardly plan. So It just does not work. No matter what mental gymnastic I perform, the Courier is now damaged goods. I no longer care if he lives or dies. He is just another idiot who cannot resist the urge to push a button even when it has 'Press here to end the world'. He is the sort of person I loathe.

Exactly! That is excatly the problem right there. I dont know. It could wipe out millions. It could kill me. It could detonate and leave me alive but turn me into a ghoul. I just don't know. But I was fairly sure whatever happened would be something between bad and catastrophic. Actually I would say I was about 99% sure it was going to be bad. And so there is zero way I would have done it unless I was somewhat mentally challenged or a psychopath with possible suicidal tendancies. That is the entire flaw with this quest point and ultimately the entire story that unfolds in this DLC. The entire DLC, and actual story of the whole game, hinges on my character being as dumb as a post or insane, something my character most certainly was not. So in the end, the persona I had developed for the whole game, was apparantly not the right one for the Courier. I had been playing him all wrong but the game had not seen fit to tell me until now. Blowing it out of proportion? Well the entire DLC was an epic fail when it comes to plot, because it uncovers some major and somewhat embarrasing plot flaws. It did not repair the damage done to FNV because of its lack of a good back story to the main protagonist (as in the previous 3 fallout games). And this complete lack of choice just hammers the last nail in the coffin. The only reasonable course of action at the silo was to turn around and take ED-E back to the Mojave and leave Ulysses stuck in the divide, unable to get what he really wanted. And had the game let me do that, had it let me transmit one final message to Ulysses before using my repair/science to jam him from ED-E and let him suffer in miserable self pity, then perhaps I would have liked it (or at least hated it less). New Vegas is a good open game, much like Oblivion and Morrowind, with great side quests and dialogue. But its main protagonist and main back story do not hold a candle to the earlier Fallout games where the main character had friends, familty, a past, a home (usually he could not return to) and above all a motivating reason to leave the comfort of said home and push onwards. New Vegas lacked this completely, and the last DLC did nothing to fix that.

I think OWB resonated because it was without doubt the funniest dialogue/quest in either FO3 or FNV. The start dialogue alone with the brains was worth the 10 dollars alone. And I just love the stealth armor talking to me. And it just had so many old sci fi movie references that it was literally Fallout at its purest and most distilled. Oh and it was non linear (like Point Lookout).