breakwind

@MacSuibhne, for a start...3 party evidence is all that you can go on as the player is only witness to the events at Helgen. I did not state that the duel was illegal. I don't know where you got the idea that the High King is the final word in Nordic Law, as I thought that the Moot, or council of Jarls were the final word of law.If Torryg refused the duel, the Moot could have stripped him of his title and given it to Ulfric, so Torryg was caught between a rock and a hard place. As for you suggesting that Torryg knew before hand that Ulfric had the power of the shout, well that could be, but going by the surprise of everyone else, I strongly doubt it. Also to test the legal grounds, it is confusing somewhat that Ulfric had to escape Solitude as a fugitive after defeating Torryg. Did he break the law? Whose law? The Nordic law or the Empires? Remember the rebellion only started after this incident. As for your moral comments, individually, there are no 'good guys' in the war. Do not think that I look at Tullius as being better than Ulfric....I would sever his head in a minute. The main reason though, that I usually side with the Empire with my characters, has more to do with my hatred of the Thalmor, than any like or dislike for an individual. In the end in regards to the duelling incident, it probably is a case of 'is the glass half full or half empty?'

There are more twists and turns surrounding this subject than there are for the debate of the moon landings :tongue: Skyrim tugs at moral dilemmas throughout the game. From the Redguard woman in Whiterun (name escapes me) to the pesty jester Keeper, and killing Paathurnax through to this threads subject. Did Ulfric have the right? Legally according to Nordic custom...yes. Did Ulfric have the moral highground using a shout to defeat his High King? I would say not. Shouts were uncommon, and hadn't been used in battle much for a long time. The Graybeards know more on that history, if you can bear to listen to their Way Of the Voice sermons. Torygg would more than likely not know any shouts...and I look upon the event as an assasination more than a duel...like taking a machine gun to a knife fight

Or he could be a Thalmor conjured dead thrall :tongue: After all they leave the impression he is doing their bidding......

@ Stemin, if you were in the US military, as a grunt, and you didn't show due respect to say a colonel (which I relate a legate equalling) whether you know their name or not, do you reckon you wouldn't recieve some sort of reprimand? The good General told me during the induction conversation that once you are in the legion, you are in it for life, and how the legion looks after it's own....but I started this thread as a tongue in cheek comment, not a serious one ;)

I reckon I clocked up over 75 hours in my first day into the game :wink:

Stealing the lettuces out of the cart in Riverwood usually works too

I only wish you could collect sets of heads....remember, home is where you hang your enemies head :biggrin:

The only time I can recall that a soldier acknowledges my rank after completing the Imperial quest, is when the old girl in the Solitude alchemy shop wants you to enquire about her daughter, and you have to ask a captain. At first he is reluctant to give out the details..but there is an option to pull rank and order him to tell you, which he does

I am an officer in the Imperial Legion...a Legate no less, and yet an Imperial footslogger has the audacity to ask me the insulting question of "Let me guess...someone stole your sweetroll?" in an insulting manner. For this henious crime I should be in my right to sever his head from his body on the spot! :tongue:

Skooma? Never touch the stuff..... :biggrin:

Thanks. Amazing how many things there are to discover in this game

I like Maiq. I remember trying to keep up running with him in Oblivion....impossible. I like his dialogue...it alludes to interesting reflections on the game

I think you have it wrong...the Dominion will end up attacking the Empire is what I believe will happen

I had this happen to me the first time I played, and was the sole reason I started on my second character. I have since revisited that character, completed the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Companions Quest, the College and numerous side quests, and then went back to Rikke and it still won't load to continue the quest. I have not had the problem with my other characters

Ulfric may have been a more honourable person before the Thalmor captured and tortured him

After one of my characters finished the Stormcloak quest, I never saw any more Thalmor on my travels and presumed that they were banned from an independent Skyrim

From memory they are pledged to serve those born of dragon blood....they only served the emperors who were of dragon blood. Because Delphine and Esbern put their oath of killing every dragon before their pledge to serve the dragon born, that tells me they only serve the Akiviri, which is not of Tamriel. It is my opinion that Paarthurnax chose to help men against his own kind, and so deserves some respect. The Blades in Skyrim have not earnt my respect as they are only interested in their own agenda. Well that is my take on it anyway

The reasoning behind helping the Empire for me is simple. The real enemy are the Thalmor, and they hint during the game that they are only biding their time before an onslaught against men. A united Empire is more likely to resist them than a fractured one...do the Stormcloaks really think they have a chance against the Thalmor once they have marched through Cyrodill and defeated the Imperials? And if Ulfric is so good, why use a powerful shout to defeat a king not much older than a boy? A seasoned soldier such as himself should have found more honour in a fair duel, than hiding behind shout power. He is nothing more than a bully and a standover merchant. I am glad I killed him...several times now

As long as they keep making single player games, I don't care how many Multiplayer ones they make. In Skyrim I am Lord...and I ain't sharing that with anyone, but that is my opinion and if others like the Online shareworld idea I won't petition against it

The Blades are suppose to serve those born of the Dragon Blood....but in reality they serve the Akaviri in my book. Paarthurnax helps you, without anything in return, while all the Blades want is help from you. As the Countess of Bruma stated, "We know who they serve....."

After spending hundreds of hours and using up countless characters there, I can honestly say I already did Cyrodill. Somewhere different would be good...like the Land of the cat

Never seen the book, but maybe it's the Nightingale one you get near the end of the Theives Guild?

My personal view is that I wish I could kill them all and let Talos sort them out. Both leaders come across as self rightous pigs whose heads would look good decorating a pike in front of one of my houses. But as you have to take one side or the other if you want to complete the quest, I pick the Imperials. Now...a war against the Thalmor, thats something I would enjoy

Thalmor and the Stormcall shout were made for each other.....

How can you ever bore of using the Nightingale Subterfuge power in god-mode?