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SkepticalJoker

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    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24742594. #24742759, #24742849, #24742924, #24742934, #24743009, #24743059, #24743149, #24743254, #24743299, #24743359, #24743449, #24743474, #24743514 are all replies on the same post.


    FavoredSoul wrote:
    phantompally76 wrote: Sorry you feel that way FavoredSoul.

    We'll survive with or without you.

    We'll also probably be a lot more cautious with our praise and endorsements. And with our trust.
    popcorn71 wrote: If your complaining about the hate being spewed on steam then why post files to the steam workshop? If Valve will not moderate their comment section and you don't like what people are saying about your mod then just don't use the workshop. Not that I'm excusing the tolls, but why put your self in a possession where you are subjected to their hate in the first place?

    === Edit ===
    To clarify, I have not read ANYTHING on steam for several day. I currently have steam offline and firewalled. This all just seems too convenient to me and I don't really trust Valve right now.
    Orgaya wrote: For what it's worth, I agree with you.

    This whole experience has taught me that this modding community is a massive s#*! stain.
    FavoredSoul wrote: Fact is, the trolls are everywhere, workshop or not. nexus sites just do a good job of throwing a cloth over it. But its still there underneath.

    And you're right. I will delete all my stuff of the workshop cause it is just awful over there.
    dunmermagic wrote: I'm sorry you feel that way, but most major modders were against this. If you had some trolls get on your nerves, well that sucks, and if you feel the need to take down your mods, that's your choice. But nobody here owes you anything just as you don't owe us anything. That's the way it's worked for 13 years, and it's worked out pretty well if I do say so myself.
    jmenaru wrote: I agree with you 100% FavoredSoul. I never expected Bethesda to remove this just because of the negative backlash, but I guess I was wrong.
    FavoredSoul wrote: @dunmermagic

    "nobody here owes you anything just as you don't owe us anything"


    My point entirely.

    Mod-users are happy to use you and your mods while you're offering, and then just as happily ready to throw you away without second thought.

    You know what that is an example of? Taking another human being for granted for your own selfish needs.
    phantompally76 wrote: Bah, stop acting like you're a victim.

    6 days ago, selling your mods was illegal.

    Axeface wrote: I completely agree with everything you said favouredsoul. This farse has shown what this community can be, it's like a pit of vipers. One thing is certain, I am disgusted by this community now and I dont want anything to do with it.

    Now, I havent done anything really noteworthy for skyrim (althought I did take a very long time and effort making my small mods), but I have done extensive modding in other games, thousands of hours. The steam change got me interested again - I started drawing, I loaded up zbrush. I for one was really excited by the steam change and the quality mods we would have seen from it. It needed to be tweaked because is wasnt done well, but overall I think we are really missing out - both authors and users.

    "hahahahahahahahha. Its hard enough getting people to CLICK A BUTTON TO ENDORSE A MOD, you think for a second people are going to strain their finger to use a donate button to give me their 5c? Reality is right here buddy, where have you been living?"

    This is so true. I looked at my mods stats on the workshop that has 90,000 current subscribers - most days I get 0 'likes', on 'spike' days where I get a lot of dls (like a few days ago with 400 subs) I got 3 likes. I dont care honestly, but it shows just how sincere this 'we like to donate!' argument is.

    "Valve and Bethesda certainly fcuked things up, royally, for a long time to come. All I want to do is remove my mods cause at least half of the hateful, selfish people out there just don't deserve anything at all. "

    I was about to remove my mods too. Obviously mine are nothing mods, not like yours, but one has almost 100,000 subs. I just dont feel like I want to be part of this community anymore now.
    Orgaya wrote: @FavoredSoul

    You're not alone with that. Have you seen other mod authors' pages that decided to use the system? It was a real gong show. Constant feedback of people acting like they are entitled to free content.

    @Everyone Else

    If this experience has taught us anything, it's that no one deserves free stuff. We certainly haven't proven it.
    FavoredSoul wrote: @ phantompally76

    If i'm acting like a victim its because you, just now, made me a victim. I am a victim of your hate.

    So someone wants to make 50c on a future mod that WOULDNT HAVE EXISTED IF NOT FOR THE SCHEME.

    Mod authors are, and always will be, victims of mod-user hate. The hate that has been written for mod-authors here. The hate that has been written for mod-authors on steam. The hate that you wrote against me just right now, and all of the hate yet to be written.
    nbtc971 wrote: You act as though someone hired you for a job. It was your decision and own desire to mod, no one asked you or forced you. In addition, when you created your content, you had to think at the time that you were doing it for free, so, if you don't want to do it for free any longer, then don't do it. I can't really blame you for that.

    Anyone who creates anything for public consumption has to know that lots of people are entitled jerks. If you didn't, then I'm sure that was quite the wake up call. I haven't read all the comments, I'm sure there are a lot of fools saying stupid stuff, but that's the world we live in. Some will choose to punish those who are grateful due to the comments of the lowest denominator and I think that sucks, but, I can't really complain about it because it's not my time and effort that's being taken to task.
    jfisha wrote: I'm just going to throw this in there, but I've personally never complained or wrote s#*! about a mod author because their mods are free. You can't complain about something you're getting for free, right?

    Of course, that's not true for everyone, but with a free mod if you hid somebodies comment or told them to "f off", I'd be right there with ya.

    However, if I paid for your mod, you'll f'nng take it and like it. You're no longer a person putting up free content, you're like the telephone company now, and I'm a very nice person but the lady that answer's the phone there absolutely hates me.


    FavoredSoul,

    No one is forcing you to make mods. If it's not fun, then why the hell are you doing it? Find another hobby, for goodness sake! And yes, it IS a hobby. It always has been. Nothing has changed on that front. Valve and Bethesda tried to do exactly what you claim mod users are doing: Take advantage of you. They wanted you to labor, then sell your labor to users, and keep 75% of the proceeds. The only people that win are Valve and Bethesda. Mod users may use your labor by playtesting and enjoying your mods, but they aren't making a profit off your work either. They're not asking you to make mods that they can then sell, while kicking back a measly 25%.

    This idea could have worked if the kickback was fair and there was some modicum of assurance to the consumers that mods would be properly curated. As it stood, mod authors were getting screwed, consumers were getting screwed, and the legality of it all was questionable to say the least. Valve and Bethesda did one thing right, and that was to shut this absurd experiment down.

    Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    In response to post #24736644. #24737469, #24739084, #24739339, #24739754, #24740069, #24740154, #24740309, #24740314, #24740394, #24740474, #24740484, #24740639, #24741189, #24741329, #24742249 are all replies on the same post.


    UberSmaug wrote:
    Anduniel wrote: I quite agree with your "craft fair" analogy. Well said, all :)

    I have no problem at all with modders wishing to make a little money on their art. People don't HAVE to buy it, it's still totally your choice. What I definitely DON'T like is that the modder would only get 25% (or less) of the price. The modder who does the work should get AT LEAST 50%, maybe 60%. But distribution doesn't work like that, unless the artist/modder does it all themself.

    There are a great many mods I think are amazing and which I would have paid a few bucks for. And just to be clear I am NOT against free modding in any way. If not for that I would never have become a modder, OR gotten into voice acting. May free modding live on!
    Arthmoor wrote: A very good analogy. I like it. It's exactly what this stood to become. I'd even wager the first Craft Fair had its share of problems but instead of scrapping the idea the involved parties worked out the kinks and made it better for everyone.

    That's what should have happened here, but instead a whole lot of people just used it as an opportunity to rage and throw a fit. Over what? A few dollars?

    With all the truly stupid things people pay for on Steam, one wouldn't have expected mods to be one of those things they WON'T pay for. Yes, guilty as charged, I've bought some of those dumb trading cards and other virtual bling before. What Valve did today makes me wish I had every last penny of it back now.

    Someone on another part of this thread also asked if it means some of us will be withdrawing from Nexus. I have to be honest. I'm deeply considering it. I didn't get a whole lot of personal flak for my decisions, but that's just it, they were MY decisions and I feel like the community betrayed my right to make such a decision. That includes many of my fellow authors, whom I expected better of.

    I feel as though Valve betrayed me and the other participants most of all by first telling us to stick with it and ride out the BS and then turning around hours later and pulling the plug WITHOUT TELLING US. Whatever your feelings on the matter of paid mods, really, that kind of thing should tell you a lot about the character of the company. I was willing to give them a chance, and this is how they repaid it.

    Anyway, there it is. What's done is done, and now everyone has new decisions to make.
    Azulyn wrote: to be fair, you were only getting a measly share of the cut, provided you sold enough copies of the mod...
    THAT kind of thing should tell you a lot about the character of the company
    rekkhan wrote: People working in the studio love game. But the companies, they don't, they love your money.
    And I have to remind you that selling an independent product is ok, but you cannot cut a part from a system and sell it. I believe that you and many many people on nexus had spent a lot of time to make more than 50 mods work together and not f**k your game up. I totally agree that a modder should be reward for his/her work, but selling a mod without any assurance that it will work well with your (modded) game is wrong.
    Beth did a good work when they release Skyrim, but not good enough to charge people more. Skyrim is incomplete, I wonder if any of us could play Skyrim again excitedly with no mod installed. So my opinion is no to paid mod, especially when our money fall into the company account while they have nothing to do with the mods.
    (sorry for my bad English)
    Arthmoor wrote: There are details most people against this fail to consider, but there's not much point in mentioning them now. Suffice it to say that I have talked to enough people who do freelance art work recently who were downright jealous that we were going to get a 25% cut. While I was appalled that a lot of people who publish creative works, even ORIGINAL creative works that are not derived from others, are getting as little as 5% of the proceeds.

    Once this was made clear, I was more willing to accept it. It's not often you get the chance to get paid for making derivative works of someone else's IP. Especially when they've removed all of the potential legal hurdles from your path ahead of time. No idea what that cost them, but it couldn't have been cheap.

    What I'm not the least bit happy about is the abrupt decision to cave in to angry mobs. Especially when we were not told it was coming, and still haven't been officially told. We had to find out the same way you did. From a surprise blog post by Valve. So yeah, I'm pretty pissed off at Valve right now.
    digitaltrucker wrote: ...sort of like how the whole thing was sprung on the community as a whole without warning or prior discussion?

    Yup, sux don't it?
    Azza123 wrote: This is the internet. HUGE difference.
    cornbreadtm wrote: Arthmoor, Just because other artists get 5%, doesn't make it right that modders got 25%.

    2 wrongs don't make a right.

    Don't justify it by bring up a negative aspect of the commission/freelance based artist world. Cause it just proves our point.
    rekkhan wrote: @digitaltrucker: If you don't pay to test, where will your warnings and discussions come from? Who's going to pay those tester who paid to test and help the mod better?
    jfisha wrote: Arthmoor,

    I think dismissing ALL of us as just cheap mod users who don't want to pay anything for mods is a little bit patronizing. Over the last few days, I've donated way to much money for my own good. I, for one, was mostly worried that this would drive a lot of good modders away from the Nexus, a site that I really care a lot about.

    If you made a million dollars, I could care less. That's being completely honest. There a lot of us, (yes, A LOT) who never said a word edge wise against you or anyone else that left. You can do whatever the hell you want, I don't care, but this wasn't just about free mods for users.
    digitaltrucker wrote: ...huh?
    rekkhan wrote: I'm sorry, I thought you replied my comment.
    Laereal wrote: I don't begrudge you of your hopes that this would have all sorted itself in the end, but there has been some glossing over a pretty important fact: the Skyrim modding community has enjoyed free mods for over three years. Thinking that people won't be threatened by the the introduction of paid mods is rather naive in itself. Outside dynamics like what people ought paid for freelance commissions wouldn't really work because this situation is unique to this very established Skyrim modding community, where money wasn't even a factor unless you were trying to crowdfund a project or something. Call me cynical, but I don't even think that what people perceive as your paltry cut in mod earnings is something that bothers people, at least some of them. But it is one of the few things that most people can rally against on top of the other potential havok in introducing paid modding can do this community. Once people think their favourite modders have tried selling mods and liked the experience of it, there will be fear all of your subsequent and BEST work will be out of reach when it wasn't the case before.

    Anyways, that's my take on it. This has been my first post about the paid mod situation since it started, so it might seem a little green around the edges.
    Arthmoor wrote: That's just it. I don't consider it a case of two wrongs making anything.

    The fact is, 25% is considered quite generous by a large community of folks who are making a living doing what they love. THEY still have that choice, even if it's only 5%. We don't.

    Also, I didn't say EVERYONE was being a trollish pig about this. I think it should be kind of obvious that when someone says "trolls ruined this" they're talking about the ones who actually spoke up and were being trolls. We all know who they are. I'd even bet that most of them weren't even involved in the Skyrim community at all and just showed up to make trouble. I think we all know who THEY are too.

    If it makes me a giant asshole for being mad that I no longer have the option due to people who had no business telling me I couldn't, then so be it.
    lelouch107 wrote: No, I certainly hope you stay Arthmoor, losing Chesko was sad enough, he was(is) wonderful, but you certainly have every right to be mad, to claim otherwise is silly.


    Arthmoor,

    That's where you're wrong. Mod users are, of course, the consumers of paid mods. Therefore, they have every right to express their opinions on this "option" of monetizing modifications. The customer is always right; that's the view of every successful business. The fact that paid mods received such a negative backlash from the consumer base should tell you that this idea is, at the very least, not ready for primetime.

    Also, you talk of being betrayed. How about the mod authors that came before you, providing the tools that you use in your work, in the spirit of openness and fun, being betrayed by folks like yourself who turn around and try to make a profit off the collective work of this community? We all stand on the shoulders of giants. You betrayed the community, not the other way around. It exists independent of you, so whether you leave or not, it will go on. For what it's worth, I hope you remember the spirit of fun and collaboration that created this community when you make your decision to leave it or not.

    Latest site updates

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    Please go back to the old notification system. It's so annoying to have to X out of every notification. And to make matters worse, there's a bug where sometimes clicking the X doesn't work. The notification just stays until you refresh the page and then you have to click it again to close. Also, because the X is so small sometimes I end up clicking on the mod thumbnail instead, taking me to the mod page by mistake.

     

    At the very least, make it so that once you check the notifications, they disappear automatically. Or allow for that option in the preferences.

    Who are the best Modders ?

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted · Edited by SkepticalJoker

    Too many great mod authors. Just in terms of authors with multiple mods in my load order: Arthmoor, Isoku, Chesko, EnaiSiaion, Gamwich, ramccoid, Hein84, DanielCoffey, 3jiou, Apollodown, expired6978, Gopher, Rengel, and Laast.

     

    But, of course, you can't forget T3nd0, kristakahashi or any other modder that makes one or two really good mods that you can't ever play without. Great community of modders on this site. :blush:

    Is Modding Worth It?

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted · Edited by SkepticalJoker

    There's nothing better than modding games. The developers do a decent job of pushing out a complete game at launch (most of the time, at least), but there's only so much they can do within their budget and time constraints. Modders have none of those restrictions, so the creativity of modders is only limited by the modding tools they have access to. Bethesda has earned my repeated business by making their own development tools available to modders, allowing us to mod their titles into gaming experiences that can't be matched.

     

    Yes, people who don't read instructions or seem to think modding requires no effort on the part of the user might end up with a negative view of it. As stated earlier in the thread, modding used to be a total chore compared to today. I blame the schools that don't properly prepare young people for problem solving and basic technical knowledge. You need to be at least somewhat computer savvy to mod games, and it's the people who lack that basic computer knowledge and problem solving skills that you see bashing modding and generally being negative toward modders.

     

    Be grateful for the modding Golden Age we're currently in, because Dragon Age Inquisition and its DRM that makes modding a lot more difficult (perhaps even impossible) is a worrying sign of the future.

    Downloading issues update

    in Site Updates

    Posted · Edited by SkepticalJoker

    And now that the virus scan issue is resolved, we're back to the same issue as before. Overloaded servers. Just goes to show that getting rid of the ability to choose servers wasn't the cause of anything.

    Downloading issues update

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    But seriously, why not change it so that only certain files get virus scanned? It seems silly to waste resources scanning a texture pack. Maybe have some way to scan mods through the Nexus server to identify high risk stuff like executables and .dll files, then send it off to the virus scan. If those files aren't found, then upload it like normal.

    Downloading issues update

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    I saw this virus scan issue coming. The Nexus has so many files that get uploaded and updated, it was only a matter of time before things got bogged down. Hope you guys get this sorted and I hope the stress levels aren't too high, since it seems like you're having one issue after another.

     

    http://lukraakvars.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/you-can-do-it.jpg

    Steam sale and downloading issues prompts CDN expansion

    in Site Updates

    Posted

    Good god, the amount of entitlement I see on this site is mind-boggling. I can understand if you were paying for this service, but this is all provided free of charge. There will always be hiccups, just look at YouTube and how much Google has borked that site over and over, but they eventually fix it and it remains free to use. Granted, that's a much bigger site, but then again Google has a lot more money.

     

    I like the idea of a CDN partnership, the only thing I would worry about is whether Nexus will be able to maintain total control of content. What if the operator decides they don't want to distribute certain content? Not sure how these kinds of contracts work, but if that's a non-issue, then it sounds like the best solution.

    Sketchy looking email from nexus

    in Site Support

    Posted · Edited by SkepticalJoker

    Maybe I'm just inherently cynical, but I never click links from emails unless I know exactly who sent it. I also have it so that images are blocked from even loading unless I allow it. If it's from a company, I always check the email address that sent it. Even if the email address looks legit, I make sure the company is known to send emails with links. If I can't verify either piece of information, I delete the email. Even if legit, they're usually not important anyway.

     

    For example, if you really needed to update NMM, you could just come to the site and do so. There would be no logical reason for the Nexus to send you emails to update (aside from the fact that they're not known to do this).

    House of the Redguard II - Official Mod Topic

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted

    Wow, so far so good. Looks awesome. I will definitely follow your progress!

     

    The separate worldspace idea sounds good as well. Since you'll also be able to avoid compatibility issues with other mods that might edit the same cells. Plus, you'll be able to add as much as you want to it. Good luck!

    Skyrim keeps crashing to desktop (CTD)

    in Skyrim LE

    Posted

    1. You should get rid of Warzones and replace it with Immersive Patrols.

     

    2. You have several "Faster Arrows" plugins active; I'm pretty sure you're only supposed to use one. You don't even need that mod as you can simply use Wrye Bash to change arrow speeds when you make a bashed patch.

     

    3. Speaking of which, I don't see a bashed patch in your load order. You need one.

     

    I see a few mods that probably conflict as well. It seems you just went through and installed mods without reading about features, compatibility, or bug reports. I would uninstall everything and then reinstall mods only after you understand exactly what they do, leaving out the conflicting mods.

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