Hilli1

Same here.

I have a suggestion. I offer all my mods in three languages. I write it in the brief description and I tag the mods accordingly. I talked with some people and realized that many people just looking for a translation tab and move on if there is none. However the a translation tab only appears when there is a different translation page. So my request is, that a mod author should be able to manually add the translation tab and then can choose which translations are available on his page. The previous functionality should remain unaffected.

In response to post #72500873. Let it be good. Your snarky attitude against everybody with a different opinion is well known. My post was meant as a personal opinion. This is what the comment section is for. What you are asking is sufficiently described. You did not like my opinion? Fine. I don't give a toss. I also do not like most of your posts either. Mod how you like to mod. I do how I like it. Simple. No need to continue this discussion but I bet you can not stop having the last word.

After reading the interesting discussion, I would like to share my opinion. Time has become fast-paced. People want to reach their goals quickly but modding has always been a time-consuming process. When I set up a new build, I usually spent about three months to get it done. Crazy? For me that’s modding. This includes carefully reading mod descriptions, understanding the mods and their compatibility, patching, fixing bugs, sorting and testing. This is the standard the community has established over the years. Modding guides can help with it. Maybe others do not spend as much time with it then I do, but a new build cannot be done within one or two days. But exactly this is what Nexus is trying to achieve: More time for playing, less for modding. Automated sorting (Vortex), automated mod selection and downloading (Mod packs) are key components. We are told by Nexus we need to have an open mind and have to change our old habits. For me it is the evidence to support the view of Arthmoor, that Nexus is trying to set new standards. It is obvious. I would call it a new modding philosophy. One component is Vortex, Mod packs another (which I also see very critically but this is another story). The goal probably is to excite more people for modding and attract more people to Nexus. Not fundamentally wrong, but is this still modding? I don’t know. But it reflects the zeitgeist. This whole discussion is not just about plug & play sorting, it is way more. It is the struggle between two modding philosophies. Basically, it boils down to us being told that the established modding standard is outdated and kind of wrong and Vortex can do everything better. That is why sides are so unforgiving and often especially veteran modders are angry about it. UWShocks, that’s why so much hate about it. Many people cannot accept it. No 1ae0bfb8, those People do not sit sulking in the corner and say nothing, but they simply moved on and don’t care anymore. Personally I tried Vortex for about three weeks, did not like it and moved back to MO2 and Wrye Bash. No more to say about it. Call me a blockhead. I don’t care. Luckily we have the choice to follow the modding philosophy we want.

I am not so happy about the mod authors donation system. I am afraid that it results in more drama between mod authors and mod authors and users as well. The amount of people complaining and moaning will increase probably. I ported several mods from Oldrim to SSE. In the future it could be more difficult to get permissions I think (especially when the one who wants to port a mod, wants to earn DP's from it as well), because original authors could think: There ist somebody who will make money with MY mod or assets. I really don't care about DP but many users do care. Personally I contacted (and still contacting) every single mod author whose mods I ported or assets I used and informed them about the new DP system. I asked if they want to get the DP's or not. In case I used assets from different authors in one mod, I informed them about the percentage they get. I always forward 100 percent of the DP's to the original authors. In case they don't want DP's as well, I turn the DP off for the specific mod. It is a lot of work, but I think it's worth it. Transparency and honesty is the best way to establish mutual trust. Drama, jealousy and distrust can be avoided this way.

I am one of those members who opened a support ticket because of this message. It was not to blame you for some reason. The reason I opened a ticket was simply that the veryfication did not work yesterday. My current email on nexus is valid and has been valid for a long time. Although I tried to verify but I got no notification mails yesterday. Today it worked. I veryfied and the message is gone. So the ticket is obsolete now. However there is still one question: When there were e-mails bounced for some reason - how can I get them? Is there a way to deliver the mails again to my account? Maybe there were important messages under it...

Yes, but this is something that works just fine already when using the advanced mode.

After going trough my mod list I noticed that the update-filter on the mods-page does not work correctly. Selecting "Update available" in the version-column shows mods which have the button "Mod can be updated" (the "cloud" button) only. When there is a second button, e.g. when besides the "cloud" button is a changelog button, the mod is not shown when selecting Update available. The same is true when there is the button "mod can be updated (but you will have to pick the file yourself)".

Yes, that's true. But I would not recommend to use this feature from Vortex because of the reasons named above.

After more testing I have some other remarks: After updating a mod and choosing to replace the old mod I expected that Vortex replaces the FILES of the mod and not the complete mod shown in the mods tab of Vortex. When I install a mod I often change the mod name and the category. Mod name, category and all mod data should be taken over from the old version. However after updating the mod, Vortex introduced a complete new file and I had to change mod name and category again. In my opinion, after updating a mod the only thing that should change in Vortex is the version number. Beyond that the old version of the mod appeared after updating the mod suddenly as a blue uninstalled button, what means never installed. This is... strange. Coming from MO2 maybe I don't understand the updating feature of Vortex right. Compared to MO2 the complete updating procedure of mods in Vortex in the current state is... what is the right word... I don't know. Let's say regarding mod updates, MO2 is currently far superior to Vortex. I know Vortex is alpha and I really hope that this feature will be improved. In the current state it is not a progress. Far from it. At least I would like to say one word to the auto update button in Vortex. Tannin, could you clarify what happens when I use the update button and Vortex finds only a update file that needs to integrated (like in the examples above). I think Vortex would replace the complete mod with the update file and the rest of the mod gets lost. Am I wrong with this assumption? At the moment I would recommend, ALWAYS go to the Nexus page and choose the right file for download.

After installing the first about 600 SSE mods in Vortex I made an search run for updates today. I assume Vortex is looking for the version number on the main page of the mod and compares with the last install. When not matching Vortex shows an update. Twelve updates were found. In my case there were two "real" hits only. The rest were false flags because of different reasons. Without any problems was one mod. One of the two correct updates found was the mod "Legacy of the Dragonborn" (# 11802). However during updating the next problem occured: I wanted to use the update file only (to avoid downloading the new complete large file). However I found only the possibilities to replace the complete old file or to rename the file and make a new install with a different name. I did not find a possibility to INTEGRATE an update in the old file like MO2 does. I found this problem as well when installing some mods where an update was offered only as an small update file. Examples: Legendary Armors - Bikini SSE Beta (# 2309) or Immersive Jewelry SSE (# 5336). I ended up installing these updates manually and integrated them into the mod folder manually. After that I changed the version number in Vortex manually. I expected that the mod is no longer marked for update however this is not the case. Manually changing the version number does not change the version number Vortex is "seeing". When I go with the cursor over the update massage I still see the old version number. All mods installed this way are still marked for update. Sometimes an author did not match the version numbers correctly or forgot to specifiy a version number to a file: Examples: Skyrim More Inns (#1018) or Realistic HD Tree LOD Textures (# 4163). In these cases I would type in the version number manually. However because Vortex does not "see" this updated version number I still have several mods marked for update and the list will be longer and longer with the time beeing. The next thing is, when I type in the version number manually Vortex accepts only numbers which go conform with the "semantic versioning" like 1.2.0. Divergent version numbers Vortex does not record. Furthermore I did not find a possibility to say "Ignore the update" (again like MO2 does). Sometimes I don't want an update for reasons. This could be the case also when the mod author forgot to update the main page with the new version number, however the file has an updated number. For instance the main page still says 2.0 and the file for downloading is 2.1. I don't have a current example right now but in my experience it happens frequently. Not tested but based on the experience made with Vortex I assume Vortex would think 2.0 is "right" and would "update" from 2.1 to 2.0. Correct me when I'm wrong. These would be a case when I want to hit the inexistent button "Ignore the update". Regarding updating the mods I see strongly need for action to solve the named issues.

And I assume the "actual helpful posts" are the ones that agree with you? Nope, you shouldn't assume that, because nowhere did I indicate that. This forum thread is about 10 pages longer than it actually needs to be. So, I'm out, Brabbit1987 has achieved what he/she set out to do, to silence anybody he/she doesn't agree with. Have fun. Yes, I'm out as well. What I have learned in this thread? Criticism is not welcome. I am a blockhead and just don't get it.

Well. I fiddled around with Vortex many hours today. Firstly I toggled off the tab "install order" in the mods-tab to get the habitual sorting method from MO2 out of my head. Then I generated lots of custom categories, if necessary with child categories. The names of my new categories beginning with a number, e.g. 01 - Modders Ressources, 02 - Bug Fixes and so on. Child-categories I created among others for textures, e.g. 12.01 - Textures Architecture, 12.02 - Textures Clutter, 12.03 - Textures Landscape and so on. This way I was able to build a proper structure when I sort by categories. So far so good. Looking into the mods of a categorie shows me that the mods in there are not sorted. I can only sort by categories or by name. So here is my little suggestion for improvement: It would help, when we could sort 1.) by categorie and after this is done 2.) by name of the mod.

Are you surprised? Autosorting rules are not a new feature; nothing you can't already do it using LOOT GUI. So Vortex doesn't introduce anything new but lacks a key feature of old tools; therefore old tools are better, dixi. I think a lot of people are missing the point. Just because it was a feature in other tools doesn't mean it was a feature that was required or good to have. If anything, I would argue it's sloppy and it created a community full of people who rather do it the sloppy way even though there is a better way that exists. It's like a bad habit. Load order is only about working with conflicts. If you feel the need to sort every single mod in a particular order, it means you are doing it wrong. It means you are using the feature for something it was never even intended for. As Tannin has pointed out, load order is for ordering mods with conflicts and such, not for organizing. There really is no reason to have the capability to move all the mods into some random order in your load order because that isn't what it's meant for. The only reason it was done that way in the past was that at one point doing it manually was the only way to reliably do it. And the reason Vortex doesn't have the feature now is because it's no longer needed because we have better tools for the job. People wanting to do it the old way instead of moving forward isn't a good argument for having the feature. @Brabbit1987 You wrote: "Just because it was a feature in other tools doesn't mean it was a feature that was required or good to have. If anything, I would argue it's sloppy and it created a community full of people who rather do it the sloppy way even though there is a better way that exists. It's like a bad habit. Load order is only about working with conflicts." I think you not even understood about what we discussed. You speak about load order. Load order means the ordering of the plugins. However we discussed about install order. That means the ordering of the mods. You wrote: "If you feel the need to sort every single mod in a particular order, it means you are doing it wrong. It means you are using the feature for something it was never even intended for." I use the installation order in MO2 once for organization and once to resolve conflicts. Why? It is the only way to keep an overview. So don't tell me it is wrong. You wrote: "There really is no reason to have the capability to move all the mods into some random order in your load order because that isn't what it's meant for." You don't need mod organization? Fine. When you can keep an overview using thousands of mods which are all in disorder then you are godlike perhaps. I can't. I need to have the mods visually organized. You wrote "And the reason Vortex doesn't have the feature now is because it's no longer needed because we have better tools for the job." No. This is exactly the problem. There are no tools or features to organize. Vortex does not offer an organization feature yet. But Tannin said he's working on it. So I'm looking forward to it. You wrote: "People wanting to do it the old way instead of moving forward..." There is no "new" way doing it yet.

@Tannin42. Thank you for your answer and taking the time. Very appreciated. And... apologies for bothering you. This time your answer sounds much better to me. You are right when you say that conflicts between keeping the modlist in order and conflict resolving can happen. In a few cases this is true and I had to break the organisation, yes, or I decided not to use one of the conflicting mods. Well. I use my organisation system because of the lack of alternatives. I didn't say it's perfect. I understand you will offer a separate organisation feature at some day. I am very much looking forward to it. No, I don't give up Vortex as some others. For now I use MO2 and Vortex parallel and I will watch the progress you make with Vortex. Your posts telling me that you are absolutely know what you are doing. There is a plan behind every decision you made. I am sure that you can improve Vortex in the way that at some day I can switch to Vortex completely.

But this is exactly the reason I removed manual mod ordering! install ordering your texture mods A B C D E without a conflict between them just for organisational purposes is wrong, it's misusing the feature. This is supposed to be painful because it's not what this feature is for. If I could I would make Vortex slap you for every time you do this. It's like complaining your toothbrush is bad for cleaning your floors. If you want to visually order your mods this is a separate feature and we can talk about it separately but this thread is about load ordering, a feature for resolving conflicts and nothing else. What you want and what you're asking for are not the same thing! You're asking me for free form load ordering so you can do visual ordering with it. @Tannin42 Well, I'm a bit... disappointed from this answer. I can follow your argument when we speak about plugins. Regarding plugins I think your approach to handle the load order by setting dependencies is well thought and it makes sense. However I can't agree when we speak about mod install order. In another post you wrote, 90% of the MO useres doing it wrong and that's why you removed the feature of manual mod ordering. How can you say so many users doing it wrong when there is not a different possibility to make a proper mod ordering? It is not wrong. There are reasons to do it this way. It is essential to have a proper mod ordering, at least when you installed more than 100 mods. I have installed way more than 1000 texture mods in MO2 (and we don't speak about all other mod categories here) and it is unthinkable to keep an overview without a proper mod ordering. Just for textures I have installed more than 30 fake mods to split the texture mods into different blocks. To be clear, my approach to handle my mods in MO2 is like this: 1.) downloading the mod 2.) installing the mod 3.) mod ordering for organisational purposes (drag and drop it to the right place) 4.) activating the mod 5.) looking for conflicts 6.) solving conflicts by hiding files or by manual change of the position I cannot see what should be wrong here. I handle my large mod list this way without problems for years. You say my approach to handle mods is wrong and Vortex should slap me every time I am doing it. O.k. It's funny to read but it does not help. I say my approach is the only possibility to handle large mod lists. Maybe I have no clue and there are different ways to make a proper mod organization. Well. Then tell me how to make it "right" please. I really try to work with Vortex. I think it is worth to use it. However there are some things that need to be improved. I wrote a large post on the Vortex News page two days ago, trying to give you some constructive feedback. Solving the "mod ordering problem" is essential for me and I think for many other users as well.

You can simply change the name of the mod in the decription window of the mod.

@Tannin42 Yes, I know I can display the install order, however all is in disorder and I want them all in a special ordering. Let's imagine I have 5 texure mods: A, B, C, D, E. However the install order is E-D-C-B-A. How to get them to A-B-C-D-E ? With Vortex I have to set 4 dependencies (load B after A, load C after B, load D after C and load E after D) instead of simply drag and drop the files in the right position. At the next day I download mod BB and I want this mod to have between mod B and C. Then I would have to set the next rule for mod C (load C after BB) and a rule for mod BB (load BB after B). Now imagine you have to handle 1000 mods this way. This is why I said it is impossible to setup a large modlist this way.

Thank you for your post, al12rs. Totally agree with you. Since all people speaking about plugin ordering only, it is very helpful that you pointed out, that mod ordering is just as important as plugin ordering. You spoke about large mod lists with 300 mods. Believe it or not, in MO2 I have installed more than 6000 mods with a large number of texture mods (of course active is a part of them only). It is unthinkable to keep an overview without grouping the mods together and a manually adjustment of the install order. In my eyes it is simply impossible to setup large modlists with setting dependencies. Finally I could live without manually reordering of the plugin order but I cannot live without the possibility to manually organize the install order of the mods.

First let me say thank you for making this software available. I downloaded two days ago, used it with Skyrim Special Edition and checked out most features. So, you asked for feedback. Here is mine: In my opinion Vortex is mostly intuitive. I was quickly able to setup the software including - setting up the game (in my case SSE) - setting up the nexus link so that I was able to download from nexus using the Mod Manager Download Button - adding tools in the tool bar including SKSE and making it primary - changing the download path and install path The complete setup was done within of about 15 minutes. It took me much more time to import mods from MO2. Finally it worked but it was not so easy. It needed to change the MO2.ini (gameName=Skyrim SSE instead of gameName=Skyrim Special Edition) [# possible bug: import from MO2 broken]. Then the setup-window did not show any mods. Obvious Vortex looked into the mods-folder of the ModOrganizer install folder only. But my mods were on a different place. After moving from there into the mods-folder from Mo2 it worked [# possible improvement: Possibility to choose the MO2 mods folder]. To install the mods it is important to understand how Vortex handles mods. It is needed to know what Uninstalled, Disabled, Enabled and Deploy means. As a MO2 user it was not really intuitive for me. I needed to read in the forum about that. The installing of the mods was not without problems. Like some others reported already there was an issue that some mods were double installed [# possible bug: double installed mods]. Double installed mods can be detected looking in the column "version". There was shown a button. Clicking on it showed 2 times the same version. Uninstalling and purge mods did not help. In this context the Skyrim Special Edition Button shows a mod active although all mods were uninstalled. I got it clean manually deleting the files inside the data-folder of the game and making a new mod install. Last thing about mod installation: It would be nice to have an option to automatically unpack a bsa-file during the installation [# possible improvement: Automatically unpack BSA-files]. Many user say they want to have the data-folder of the game clean. I don't want to have a cluttered data-folder as well. I use a clean folder for example when I want to merge mods or when I want to create BSA files. So I was skeptical first. However now I think the given solution is well-thought. It is always possible to get a clean data-folder. There are two possible ways: You can hit the button "purge mods" on the mods-page (you must enable advanced mode under Settings first). Don't forget to hit the button "deploy mods" when you finished your work. Second solution I found is to create a new profile without any mods. I called this profile "Clean". When there is a need to have a clean data folder you can simply change the profile and you will have it. The mods folder needs some improvement. Rather random I found out that double clicking on a mod opens a description-window of the choosen mod. This is not really intuitive. Beyond that the new description window overlaps the main window. In my opinion this should not happen. I would prefer when the description window is always visible when you click on a mod [# possible improvement: description windows always visible]. The next point is: Nowhere I can find the mod author. The mod author should be named and linked in the description window or better in the main window next to the mod name [# possible improvement: Adding mod author]. You can find "visit on www.nexusmods.com" in the description window. This is very tiny. However this is an important field which is often used (especially when you found an update and need to visit the nexus-page for downloading the new version). There should be a larger button for that [# possible improvement: Large Button for Visit on Nexusmods]. Last thing here: It seems the Endorsed-Button does not work right. Downloaded mods are always shown as undecided, also when the mod is endorsed already [# possible bug: Endorsed button does not work right]. Last but not least the most important issue for me is that there is no possibility to rearrange the load order (Plugins) and the install order (Mods) manually. Like many others I think it is a must-have and a core-function of a mod manager. Setting up all the dependencies is really a pain and after you set up some dozens dependencies it will be confusing at some point. And it takes far more time compared to simply drag and drop the files. Tannin, please rethink your opinion in this point and make a manual adjustment of load order and install order possible [# possible improvement: possibility to manual drag and drop plugins and mods to change the load order respectively the install order].

In response to post #56116056. #56148496, #56151416, #56155606 are all replies on the same post. Exactly what I think.

In response to post #56116056. #56148496 is also a reply to the same post. Totally agree with you both but it seems the majority of the user here is happy about the new donation system. From this point of view Dark0ne is right here and we have to accept it.

In response to post #56122566. #56123061 is also a reply to the same post. Oh, Dark0ne himself. Thank you for clarification. I am relieved that I can turn DP off or give them away. Let me say this closing: In the moment when money comes into play the page here will turn into something... different. People discussing here seriously how many percent from the DP they should get. This is the direction it goes. I don't like this trend.

In response to post #56107121. #56107916, #56125786 are all replies on the same post. I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with you bchick3. I ported a couple of mods too and I made some translations. It took time to make this, of course. Much time. But: Nobody forced me to make those ports. Making them was my own decision and I wanted to share it with the community. I use a lot of mods and I wanted to give the community something back. It should be free. Always. Personally I would be ashamed if I would take donations for mods which are based of other modders work. So either I will turn DP off for my ported files or I give the DP for the ported file to 100% to the original-author. Generally we should pay with endorsements here, not with money.

As someone who ported a couple of mods to SSE and made translations I would NEVER accept donations in any form. I am porting mods because I love the game and I don't want to make money with it. Mainly I port over mods for my game and I want to share it with the community. It is a hobby and not a kind of making money. I see rather the problem that it will be more difficult to get permissions from the original-authors to port-over mods. When someone would ask me - I would be distrustful from now on. The first thing I would think after implementing the new donations-system would be "He want to make money with MY stuff". When I would be foreced to get any donation-points here, the only possibility would be to transfer it to the original-authors. Should this not be possible I would quit to publish any mods and transfer all my ports to the care-taker. My personal opinion is: I disagree with the complete new donation-system. We don't need this at all. This is a place for FREE mods. Any kind of donation-system would destroy this principle.