CaptainPatch

Well, I don't think the idea is to simply drop items to get rid of them. Rather, just simply be able to remove them from Inventory. Probably would just store them at any owned House. I'd be leery of the mod because that universally removes the Quest Item label from ALL Quest Items. Kind of wonder how that affects quests where completion hinges on presenting a unique Quest Item as proof of finishing the job -- when the required item no longer carries that "Quest Item" label.

I tried several ways to Search this topic, but apparently I'm not using the correct wording. Can't imagine this subject NOT coming up over the last couple of years. Understandably, while a quest is unfinished, you generally are not allowed to remove quest items from Inventory. But quite often, even after the quest has been completed, you _still_ can't remove quest items from Inventory. Things like Elder Scrolls, etc. If these were weightless, that would be no real concern. But by the time you get up to 30th, 40th, or 50th level, the accumulated weight of those items can amass to 40-60 pounds "off the top" of your carrying capacity. That puts you 40-60 pounds closer to being Overburdened and losing your fast travel and sprinting abilities. Has anyone come up with a way to divest oneself of quest items once a quest is over? Preferably short of rewriting the program or using a cheat to remove Item numbers (which require that you _know_ what the Item number is).

I was wondering why there were two files listed. I'll download the other and see if that clears up the problem. Any idea what's happening with the "Download (manual" popping up a "No files have been uploaded" message? UPDATE: I've added the Archive folder, and that part seems to work fine. But BOSS.exe still takes me to a HTML layout that looks like two distinctly different webpages are attempting to be seen simultaneously, one page on top of the other. [Wish I could somehow take a snapshot and post it so you could see the jumbled mess. Using Clipboard only picks up one of the pages because the other one can't be interacted with (other than seeing its text).] If I set the GUI to show text only instead of HTML, that reports okay, but text-only doesn't feel quite as useful as a HTML layout. (Maybe I just got spoiled seeing BOSS on my PC.) Really would like to sort BOSS out before I start installing several score of mods. FURTHER UPDATE: It turns out that my wife -- who does quite a bit in the way of graphic arts and has umpteen software suites -- had set Dreamweaver to be her HTML vehicle. BOSS, it seems, prefers to use a web browser to post the BOSS logs. All that was necessary to correct the glitch was to reset the HTML default to be the web browser that I use most frequently. (Chrome, as it happens.) NOW THE DOWNLOADS BEGIN IN EARNEST!

Probably something absurdly simple that I'm doing wrong. I searched BOSS which got me to http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/6//? But when I click Download (manual), what I get is that the Files tab opens with the message "No files have been uploaded yet." So I scrolled down to "BOSS can be downloaded from its Google Code page" https://code.google.com/p/better-oblivion-sorting-software/downloads/list There, if I click on the 2nd line for the Installer https://code.google.com/p/better-oblivion-sorting-software/downloads/detail?name=BOSS%20v2.1.1%20Installer.exe&can=2&q= and then set it to RUN, what I get is a UI that looks like two pages shown simultaneously, one on top of the other. One page looks like the BOSS log page, but I really can't figure out what the other page is that is dumps its text (with a transparent background) directly on top. What I see is an incomprehensible jumble of text. I got the feeling is that all I need is a different location to download BOSS, other than the Google Code page. [i should mention that this is for the wife's PC. We decided to spring for her own copy of Skyrim, and so I'm trying to set up all the necessary mods and plugins so that we can smoothly transfer her Saves from my PC to hers. Which sort of suggests that I need to duplicate the mods mix. But Cleaning and such is going to be problematic if I can't get a working copy of BOSS installed.]

Thank you for that! Very informative (and useful, eventually).

What confuses me is _how is a **user** supposed to know just what the line is that should be input as the AFTER_? That knowledge would seem to be something that only a programmer VERY familiar with the coding would know. I could follow the directions (eventually) right up to ADD. I get the impression that some of the mod-makers don't necessarily know the coding all that well themselves. (Evidenced by the dirty edits, etc.) If there is an unrecognized mod (to BOSS), it would seem to be the author that must provide that info. Otherwise users could be loading a time bomb into NMM.

Bleah. Make that, "BLEAH!" I'm looking at the BUM UI and all I have is questions.: 1. How do you "set up a 'custom rule' for 'Inconsequential NPCs.esp'"? I see "User Rules" (black text), "User Rules" (red text), "Generated Rules" (red text), and "Inconsequential NPCs.esp" (black text). There's a LONG list of some kind of index in the right-hand table. Just where am I supposed to set up a custom rule? 2. I'm not seeing any hyperlink for "Articles" on the mod page. A _lot_ of enticing "what's inside" and a lot of details about the mod at the bottom of the page. But no "Articles". (Of course, there's a _lot_ of places for that to hide. Then again when you say "mod page I might be looking at the wrong page.) [AHA! Sandwiched in between "DESC" and "Files".] Reading the article now... " It is an insult to mod users because it treats mod users as morons." But, but, "moron" describes me soooo well! (At least in regards to all of this subject matter.) Ooooookay. I've got ADD Inconsequential NPCs.esp AFTER 3DNPC.esp, Hit "Save Rule" and in the right-hand table the view scrolled to "Companions Load Early" (red text) and under that a line appeared that reads "3DNPC.esp", followed by quite a few IF FILEs (aquamarine text). Is that it then? Hopefully for any unrecognized mods, the authors know to inform people just what inputs are required for BUM. Closed BUM and am now running BOSS to see what changes have happened... Everything is recognized and INPCs appears down towards the bottom of the log (7 lines from the bottom). Might as well see what NMM shows ... Same position on the Plugins list. All this sounding copacetic? Hope so. BTW, ... THANK YOU!

Totally unrelated: Re: Inconsequential NPCs -- Installed it and BOSS gave me this message: "The following plugins were not found in the masterlist, and must be positioned manually, using your favourite mod manager or by using BOSS's user rules functionality. You can submit unrecognised plugins for addition to the masterlist directly from this log by clicking on a plugin and supplying a link and/or description of its contents in the panel that is displayed." So where should it be placed and how do I put it there?

Quick question: What is a "papyrus script"? I've seen the term bandied about, but never an explanation.

Ooooookay then. I get the impression that I simply need to have Wrye Bash _there_ where it belongs, and I can leave it at that (since they're _suggestions_ that can wait until I have a better grasp of the software. SKSE is also where it belongs and the main thing I see that I get out of it is that it enables me to select a wider range of mods, many of which are built on SKSE. The two main two that I have sort of figured out are BOSS -- which shows me where problems and conflicts are -- and TES5Edit so I can keep the Master files Cleaned. What about SkyUI? It seems that quite a few interesting mods have that integrated into them. Is that good to be installed now that SKSE is in its proper place? I figure that once I've got SkyUI installed and functioning properly, I can go shopping for several score of mods that I've had my eye on. This time around however, I'll make a point of downloading them ONE at a time, followed by a BOSS to see if it's behaving; if not, I'll dump it before I go on to the next one. [bTW, one of those is Inconsequential NPCs!]

Bleah. I feel like I'm blindfolded, trying to find the pinata. So I start Wrye Bash. Under "Mods", the last item on the list is that 0.esp file. I right-click on it and see the "Rebuild Patch" option, which I choose. I see categories for Alias Mod Names (unchecked), Merge Patches (which is checked and open), Tweak Setting (checked), and Leveled Lists (checked). Just for the heck of it, I decide to merge Better Sorting (Ammo.esp) and Better Sorting (Miscellaneous.esp). This generates the following report: But I really don't _understand_ any of what I am being shown, told, or even what it is that I have just done. What are those BOSS listings of Bash tag suggestions of "delev" and "relev"? It seems that BOSS is telling to "DO something", and that something needs to be done in Wrye Bash. But I have yet to figure out just what those things are or how I am supposed to go about doing them. Bleah. Just start calling me "Special Ed". 8^(

Forgive me for being dense, but what does that _mean_? How can I rebuild something that I haven't built? And how do I select and apply the Bash suggestions? Thus far, I got "Start Wrye Bash". What do I _do_ next (in "Insert Tab A into Slot B" terminology, preferably)?

It wasn't until just now that I noticed that the Steam Skyrim targets a _URL_: steam\rungameid\######. I had pasted into that URL address the Directory path of C:\etc. I can see how that would leave things rather confused. The SKSE loader _does_ call for a Directory path, so no problemo. Here's the BOSS report, with NO unrecognized mods. Note the calls for 8 Bash Tag suggestions:

Okay then. I didn't particularly like the idea of having to open Windows Explorer and trace that C, Program Files (x86), Steam, steamapps, common, Skyrim path EVERY time I want to start the game, so I right-clicked the skse_loader.exe file and did a "Send to Desktop (create shortcut)", which leaves the file in that Skyrim folder, but allows me to one-click to start the game. Game starts fine, even with the Alternate Start mod up and running. Played a new MC with no problems. I really don't know the CTDs were happening either. I did discover that the actual .exe file had disappeared from the Skyrim folder through no action of mine (that I am aware of). So I pulled the file from the Download folder and dropped it to where it belongs. But since the skse_loader had been the target, how did the game even start to go to Main Menu? Withe .exe NOT present, the shortcut wouldn't have been able to execute. What next?

I just tested the skse_loader.exe startup and was surprised that Loading a game did NOT cause a CTD. I can't understand _why_, when that .exe was the target of the shortcut, I got innumerable CTDs. But when I go **directly** to the .exe without using a shortcut, no problems. Color me Confused. BTW, having some helpful people babystep me through the process, over the last week I used BOSS to dump mods with Warnings and Errors, so my mod collection (46) _looks_ fairly clean. (Except for 8 that have some Bash "suggestions". Still learning just how to use Bash, so those will be there for a bit longer. I also Cleaned the Master files with TES5Edit. So overall, I don't think there should still be any CTD-causing mod elements _left_ to cause trouble. [but I could probably count on the fingers of one hand how often _I_ have been right in these matters... and still have most of those fingers still available.]

Now, I don't see how that can be the case. Once the CTDs were clearly going to happen, the ONLY change I made was to re-target the shortcut from skse_loader.exe to the Steam game ID path, thereafter the game started without incident. That indicates to me that the root cause of the CTDs was with skse_loader.exe. Or possibly starting a Steam game requires a Steam launcher. Either way, it doesn't seem to be at all the case that there are any orphan files causing CTDs. (Though they might be the cause of some of the occasional freezes my wife was experiencing this afternoon. CORRECTION. She meant "jerky video" rather than "freeze".) I think I'm still some distance out from being able to try the Helgan tutorial. I've still got SkyUI to integrate into the mesh... and I still have to figure out how all these "overseer" mods mesh together. Plus there are at least 8 Bash "suggestions" that need to be addressed. ADDENDA. Color me Confused. As a test, I went directly to the skse_loader.exe file and launched the game from there. Managed to Load a saved game with NO problems. So why was it when that same file was the target of the Skyrim shortcut, what I invariably got was a CTD? To my VERY limited knowledge, it should be that using the launcher either way should ALWAYS cause a CTD, or NEVER. ["Hmm. "To err is Human; to _really_ foul things up takes a computer."]

Well, I can't see how the UAC would be interfering as it is set at the bottom setting (never notify). BTW, did you catch my Panic attack? Trying to start Skyrim with a Load saved game 1) popped up the notification that because of the mod deletions, EVERY saved game would be altered, but then if I clicked Yes to proceed, there was a CTD, _every_ time. I finally realized that it was because the skse_loader.exe target was going _directly_ into Main Menu, bypassing the Steam synchronization menu (where you can uncheck mods in Data Files). I had to have Steam reset its shortcut target (with the game ID) to get things working again. So that leaves me wondering just how I'm supposed to get SKSE started and functional when it requires skse_loader.exe to get started. Going to _try_ to download Wrye Bash again. Expect me to return with warning messages. LATER. Surprisingly (given my track history) that went fairly smoothly. It popped the stock warning about placing the files directly into the Program Files (x86)\....\Skyrim\ path (which I ignored). I pulled the Wrye Bash shortcut from the Start Menu and placed it on the desktop along with BOSS and TES5Edit. Now the question is, what do I do with it now? [i still have to sort out SKSE and SkyUI.]

Still alive. But I'm finding out how roomy the doghouse is from the inside view. 8^D Just to see what it was like, I tried to start a New game. It did NOT do a CTD, so that was hopeful. But then the game just sat there on the Main Menu page with the music playing endlessly. Twenty minutes later I figured this too had been bollixed. How long it was taking I thought might be related to the Alternate Start mod, so I decided I'd uncheck that box on the mods list -- and that is when I realized that the shortcut was taking directly into the Main Menu page, totally bypassing the Steam Skyrim synchronization menu page. (That little mini-window that first pops up that includes Data Files in the menu.) When I was trying to install the SKSE mod, I was directed to change the shortcut target from the Steam game ID to skse_loader.exe, and that was what was sending me directly to the Main Menu. I went to Steam and had it reassert its own shortcut (which includes the game ID number) and that allowed me to first go to the Steam Skyrim synchronization menu and then Data Files to turn off the Alternate Start mod. NOW I can get into the game and actually load a saved game. There's still the warning that deleted mod elements will be missing (naturally), but that is only to be expected. Panic attack over.... for now.

Recently I have been deep delving into BOSS and TES5Edit, and _trying to get to SKSE and Wrye Bash operational. Did _lots_ of BOSS and on its warning removed 11 mods. I also Cleaned the Master files (.esm). Now my wife just tried to get back to her ongoing game, but ALL of the most recent Saves pop up this message: "This save relies on content that is no longer present. Some objects may no longer available. Continue loading? Yes/No" EVERY Yes for EVERY save yields a CTD. My wife has worked her character up to 45th level and she was heavily emotionally invested in that character. If I can't get her current game up and running, I think I can safely predict that she's going to Ikill me. And I suspect that she won't be nice enough to wait until I'm asleep. Help!!! For the love of the Eight/Nine Divines, heeeeeellllllppppp meeeeee! Pretty please?

I use the NVIDIA GeForce Experience to automatically keep my video driver up-to-date. As a matter of course, whenever it installs the most recent version (320.18, dated 5/23/2013), it removes the previous version. (Or so I've been led to believe.) I tried to locate the current driver via DXDIAG, but the only references Search (with ts lack of intuition) can find is in a bunch of System Information .ini-type files. (Which translates to, "If there is more than one driver on file, I don't know where to find them.") [Aside: See what I mean about the detours? Pretty consistently, in order to get to the "next step", you have to first do something with _that_ program. And before you can do something with _that_ program, you have to do something with this **other** program. And before you can do something with this **other** program... If programming is your way of life, all these intermediate steps are probably inconsequential. But to someone that has to climb a ladder just to get a view of becoming a neophyte, it quickly becomes rather... daunting.]

Okay then. I retargetted the shortcut to use C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim\skse_loader.exe Now to sort out Wrye Bash. Bleah. So I take the time to review the Readme. Therein in states "1. Download and install the MSVC++ 2008 Redistributable." So I follow the link and start to download that program. But it comes time to Run the installer, it tells me "Error 1704. An installation for NVIDIA Control Panel is currently suspended. You must undo the changes made by that installation to continue." Does this mean that MSVC++ is incompatible with my NVIDIA Control Panel? And if those two are incompatible -- and MSVC++ can't be installed -- does that mean that Wrye Bash can't be installed?

Done. Now, when I start the skse_loader.exe file, the game of Skyrim itself starts: boom, boom-boom, Continue/Load/New/Credits/Quit menu appears. Is that what is _supposed_ to happen? If so, is this supposed to be how I henceforth start the game (given that I had mods that used SKSE), rather than the Steam-provided desktop shortcut?

Okay, it looks like I'm making progress. A last complication is that there is a Skyrim Data folder, and there is also a skse_1_06_14 Data folder. Lifting the Data folder from the skse_1_06_14 folder and attempting to deposit it in the Skyrim folder generates a warning message that says, "Do you want to replace the existing folder with the newer one of the same name?" Seems like what would be called for is to rename the skse_1_06_14 folder's Data folder.... but wouldn't doing that interfere with skse_1_06_14's functionality?

Aha! Never would have thought to look past Steam to steamapps and then to common, and _then_ to Skyrim. Why can't Win 7 Search find it? It may be waaaaayyyy down the directory chain, but the file name is distinctive and solitary, not appearing _anywhere_ else on the PC's file directory. Compared to XP's Windows Explorer, Win 7's version seems to lack.... intuition. So, I clear out any existing versions of SKSE and Wrye Bash (to minimze confusion) and reinstall them to C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\ Now to see how I might screw that up. ********* And sure enough, it screwed up. I started the download Wizard and specified the destination location to be C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\skyrim\. Sure enough, the skse_1_06_14 folder is there. But the skse_loader file is now one folder lower down from Skyrim. Am I supposed to take the entire _contents_ of the skse folder and paste it into the Skyrim folder, so that the SKSE_loader and TESV.exe are on the same level? (That would be my guess, but it would pointedly be a _guess_.)

I have to get this off my chest: THANK YOU! You have all been quite helpful and marvelously tolerant of my frustration venting. I figured what I really need: Skyrim Modding For Idiots! Something that has tiny baby steps arranged in a Fullproof Idiot List. It would hopefully cut down the irritation of going from Step # to Step #+1, only discover there is a detour that must attended to prior to commencing Step #+1. Really, that's pretty much the source of most of the frustration. ************** So, recap: At this point, I need to install Wrye Bash. Do I _really_ need to move the Skyrim files, or as MonkerzX suggests, it's only "advisable"? [Why me? I had a whole paragraph here, but when I Posted, that paragraph disappeared. I'm seriously feeling like Joe Btfsplk right now. (Attaboy to anyone that knos the reference without doing a Search.)] [WTF??? _Again_ it dumps that paragraph!] [THREE times.] [FOUR times. The forum software really, really hates this paragraph.] Five times. And it's always everything between the end of this sentence and the "Suggestions?" line. The next step is to install SKSE, which complains that it can't find TESV.exe. Neither can I or Win 7 Search. The Skyrim shortcut aims at a Steam path that suggests that my PC first connects with Steam and it is THERE that the .exe. file is located. Suggestions? How do I cope with an AWOL TESV.exe? [_Finally_ it sticks.]