mkborgelt13
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Posts posted by mkborgelt13
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Hi guys,
If you have played S.T.A.L.K.E.R. you'll get what I mean right away. basically how you have to hide from blowouts, I want to do with radstorms.
is there any way to detect whether a player is "hiding" during a radstorm? I.e. with something over their head, or in a culvert, etc.
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It's my first time posting here so I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this but I need help on modding in new armors. I'm an absolute noob in doing anything mod related so I just want to start with simple mashups from existing mods.
I'd appreciate any help.
Hi, so I've made a few basic armor edits, and this is how I do it.
Great resource: http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Creating_an_armour_for_Fallout_4._Part_1
What you need: Blender, NifSkope, Outfit Studio(BodySlide)
Import your armor .nif into outfit studio. Export from outfit studio as .obj. Open blender, import your .obj. Make your edits, export from blender as .obj.
Now, in Outfit Studio, load the unmodified armor as a reference. Import your .obj, copy the bone weights, build skin partitions. Then export as .nif. You should not get any message about weights.
if you are removing segments of the armor and there is no skin underneath, you have to import a body mesh and attach it. You might want to "trim" the body mesh in blender.
Now open your modified .nif in NifSkope, and correct any inconsistencies (broken links to materials, etc). Double click your .nif from windows explorer to open it with CK, you'll get a preview window. If your outfit loads you're good to go.
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I don't hate (dislike) the voice protagonist what I HATE about the dialogue system is the fact that you get ATTACKED, interrupted and other NPC's voices can muffle/disrupt the main conversation. (The sound issue may just be on my end with crap speakers but the attacks mid sentence make me mad!) The ATTACKS destroy my IMMERSION! Had to use the word I HATE, I play for the story not realism if I wanted real I have a live that is more then real! I play games for an escape from reality.
I had this exact problem with Skyrim, but not Fallout 4. So... maybe it's different depending on your speaker setup? Not sure, but I know exactly what you mean.
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Skyrim allowed me to have a wife and kids! Fallout 4...well sometimes I dream of Piper cos she is my companion. Can't believe she's there, the only person in existence, albeit an AI game character, being the person that doesn't mind what I'm up to...but she is. Cos they made it/her that. They gave me an experience I sorely miss from everyday life. People can berate Bethesda, but they gave me something I can never have IRL. So won't ever hate, sorry.
Didn't like the the Dialogue system in 3 or NV tho, quite like it in F4... :smile:
:( :( :(
Don't say "never," I used to, and then things changed. Glad to have at least one person who prefers the new dialogue, too.
You guys talk about NV like it's the arc of the covenant. It's only a few small things that make it different (better?). Otherwise same technology, generally the same game.
No, it's not. But I find it rather stupid to compare what a different company did to a game just because it's the same franchise. If you go with comparisons you have to compare FO4 to Bethesdas own. And that's FO3 or Skyrim. Which makes FO4 not better or worse than the previous ones. Maybe a tad better, but to me it seems that people complaining over getting a Bethesda game are also taking toilet paper ads for hard facts. In short, buying into every heap of PR bulls*** being thrown their way.
I'm not comparing it on franchise basis, but mechanically. it uses the same software technology. It's what Obsidian did with the technology that makes it different. That is what I mean, small things separate what you define the "Bethesda" experience from the "NV experience."
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Dialogue is fine, writing is bad. There's a difference. The voice actors and actresses did a superb job. It's the guys who wrote their characters who are at fault.
You guys talk about NV like it's the arc of the covenant. It's only a few small things that make it different (better?). Otherwise same technology, generally the same game.
And no, nobody thinks Bethesda made NV. We have the Meme Team patrolling to make sure of that.
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No actually I hadn't seen that video, but I looked it up just now and I agree with what he says. Makes me want to play NV, but I'm not sure if I could get past the issues I have with it.
I mean just thinking about "where do bullets come from" gives me ideas for quests. A single mother whose husband was killed has a kid who helps his mom pay rent by collecting spent casings. His mom doesn't like it because it's dangerous but what's to do? Well the kid has now gone missing and she asks you to find him. Right away I care more about this kid than "Shaun." Maybe you are thinking you can move in with this poor stressed out mom, huh? If you find her kid, that is. Kind of reminds you of your dead wife and missing son.
In an unrelated incident, a fatcat trader is raking in the caps by buying up spent casings in bulk, reloading them at a sweatshop-type place, and selling them. He even has his own "brand" which is stamped on the boxes, instead of "Circle G," what the hell is that. He has his own family to watch after and doesn't really care how he gets the spent casings, nor who gets hurt in the process. Nor does he care that his business is "bottling death" so to speak, by contributing to the violence of the wasteland.
This has real-world inspiration from children in 3rd world countries, I mean it's dripping with potential for "morality" and feels and what have you. Kid steps on a landmine, etc. It's not hard! So why is so much of the writing in FO4 dry? I still enjoy the game, but I mean damn, they really need new writers.
start with a strong foundation before you build house, and by this I mean have a solid, well-thought-out setting, with cohesive design and elements which work together, and are there because they should be, not because they are "cool."
is diverted to this cause. The best game developers can do is "hide" such things with design choices.
:devil: that's the ticket
I personally wouldn't want a sobstory, what I'd like is situations that pick at my own moral fibre that have to be resolved somehow (and I think that's what you're getting at that's an awesome setting), it's only an RPG if you play in a role after all, besides fallout's always been a morbidly fascinating series
I think the whole thing with "morality," player choice, and role-playing game should not be about "Am I good or evil," but "what would I do in this situation?" If you think about it, there isn't any good or bad in Fallout, it's a matter of perspective, as in "what do I have to do to survive?"
I mean it's all how you cut apart the problem. In that example I gave, you can look at it different ways. The kid's a dumbass for going out alone, and his mom's a terrible mother. Or you can say, "what a shitty world, where this has to happen for people to get by." Or, "what a good kid, helping out his mom, and risking his own back." Or even "I want to sleep with his mom so I'm gonna find that kid."
edit: And those things above aren't necessarily through the dialogue, they are in the player's mind as they go through the game. Dialogue can be the simple wheel that everyone hates so much. It's just a small part of the writing. I mean, who would say to that mother, "Well, your kid's stupid for doing that, and you're a bad mother for letting him go?" Having the option to say that actually makes it worse, in my opinion. A lot of conversations with people is what you want to say versus what you actually say. Talking is just the "tip of the iceberg," I think.
Basically no sob stories, unless you choose to interpret it as such. A core theme should be how a pre-war person chooses to rationalize the kind of life-or-death decisions you are faced with. In this way the SS is a great player-surrogate. What use is empathy when faced with bullets coming at you? Does empathy make civilization? Or is it selfish interest, eat-or-be-eaten, with the strongest climbing out on top? Nature vs. nurture, etc. They had a great set-up with the Supermutants and Strong's desire for "Milk of Human Kindness," but did nothing with it.
I think some of it is a straight-laced attitude of the studio, they need more "west coast" groove such as that video you linked.
I mean there are so many things I'd like to change. What's with smoking 200-year-old cigarettes? Ever try smoking stale tobacco? Or a half-smoked cigarette? Not even worth it, they should be growing their own 'mutant' tobacco, and they can even tie this into their preoccupation with colonial America.
Instead of whatever Bunker Hill is supposed to be, I'd rather have an open-air "shakedown street" type place, with free-wheeling dealers and drifters coming in and out of the wastes.
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trust me they definitely used his stuff somewhat the way he designed it
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Raider_armor_(Fallout_3)
of course, when making games the issue is what you can actually pull off in a 3D environment, but that's why he's a concept artist, they take their own spin on it, and do what they can with it, there's load times, production times, disc space to consider
this is why I wouldn't denigrate the others for being less able in this way, because he's thinking up a lot of the cool stuff while they're kind of bridging the imaginative with the real and that's also hard work
as for the fallout world, is it hot? I dunno, I've always considered it to be more just "the way it is" like the desert aspect for the west coast makes sense because you're going across california or something not a single city's region, temperatures near coastal regions tend to be fairly moderate regardless of the location with exception to equatorial regions - so some of the places where it's hotter inland are normal by the sea
so with fallout 1, 2 and 4 covered, we've got... NV taking place in a desert so that's that... for fallout 3 one could argue that so many ruins and rubble make for good places to take shade under etc
I take it by your "where do they come from" question that you've seen "the shandification of fallout"?
then again wearing such heavy gear might explain why you get so thirsty so fast ingame :D
seriously, everything makes you thirsty like crazy, hunger less so
No actually I hadn't seen that video, but I looked it up just now and I agree with what he says. Makes me want to play NV, but I'm not sure if I could get past the issues I have with it.
I mean just thinking about "where do bullets come from" gives me ideas for quests. A single mother whose husband was killed has a kid who helps his mom pay rent by collecting spent casings. His mom doesn't like it because it's dangerous but what's to do? Well the kid has now gone missing and she asks you to find him. Right away I care more about this kid than "Shaun." Maybe you are thinking you can move in with this poor stressed out mom, huh? If you find her kid, that is. Kind of reminds you of your dead wife and missing son.
In an unrelated incident, a fatcat trader is raking in the caps by buying up spent casings in bulk, reloading them at a sweatshop-type place, and selling them. He even has his own "brand" which is stamped on the boxes, instead of "Circle G," what the hell is that. He has his own family to watch after and doesn't really care how he gets the spent casings, nor who gets hurt in the process. Nor does he care that his business is "bottling death" so to speak, by contributing to the violence of the wasteland.
This has real-world inspiration from children in 3rd world countries, I mean it's dripping with potential for "morality" and feels and what have you. Kid steps on a landmine, etc. It's not hard! So why is so much of the writing in FO4 dry? I still enjoy the game, but I mean damn, they really need new writers.
start with a strong foundation before you build house, and by this I mean have a solid, well-thought-out setting, with cohesive design and elements which work together, and are there because they should be, not because they are "cool."
I'm pretty sure this is a consequence of the nondeterministic nature of the games. A reactive environment in other (more linear, deterministic) games is a stage trick. Each player is going to do something a bit different, and software is not really "there yet" inregards to such intelligent response from NPCs and other game features.
But you're encouraged to make choices. So these choices should be reflected. That it can be done is proven by modders who take care of these issues in most Beth games. I'm no modder, but the fact that they're mostly working on their own instead of having a whole million dollar team behind them points to a simple truth. It can't be that hard to implement.
There are some technical problems that cannot be solved by today's computers. Home experiment: Put a bench down in a room full of settlers and watch them bug out. This is a variant of "dining philsophers" problem, as someone else here pointed out, that is a topic of frustration for programmers. Throwing money at it doesn't fix it, believe me, enough grant money is diverted to this cause. The best game developers can do is "hide" such things with design choices.
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Let me make one thing clear. I'm certainly not a Bethesda or Fallout 4 appologist.
But what I don't get is this lacking in story part. Every damn Beth game lacked in the story department. It was less obvious with Morrowind since the whole concept was novel but moving from there, you always had an unreactive NPC environment, main quests that - given the right level - could be over within a few hours and an abundance of fetch, carry and kill. FO4 is no different.
The civil war in Skyrim was entirely inconsequential. The lead rebel, can't even be arsed to remember his name, could lie dead in his hall an people still would go on and on about how you need to see and speak to him. And the legion still called you recruit if you managed to reach the highest possible rank. In later playthroughs I steered well clear of that part of the game so as not to break my immersion entirely.
Bethesda games were always that way. Lackluster story, meh side quests and a world that doesn't react to what you do or don't. I would even go as far as to say, FO4 is a tad better in that departments without reaching good status.
I'm pretty sure this is a consequence of the nondeterministic nature of the games. A reactive environment in other (more linear, deterministic) games is a stage trick. Each player is going to do something a bit different, and software is not really "there yet" inregards to such intelligent response from NPCs and other game features.
Similar to how pathfinding works with settlement building. The shortcomings are really obvious when pathfinding lacks an environment molded around it.
ahh, but concept art is one of the most important features of these things, the first spark of possibilities, giving direction to a realm of infinite possibilities
granted maybe it doesn't *need to be* but I suspect there's high potential for it to be a vital thing
in any case, I think adam adamowicz through sheer virtue of his abilities was that central pillar to an extent, he added a number of notes to his works as well, little things to define the experience one has in the world of his creation as it were, realized by the works of others
not that others didn't also have important bits, but his facilitation powers were quite good apparently
https://www.flickr.com/photos/47857688@N08/collections/72157629320914591/
...and this is the reason why I can't shake the nagging feeling that his death really affected (and possibly altered the course of) development of the game - hence the reason I bring this up in this thread.
Personally, I actually find it depressing when I look at Adamowicz's art - because his vision for the game outmatched the ability of the rest of the team. Just look at any of the designs for Boston City post-war, the place looks huge; then compare that to what we actually got in-game. A scaled-down, cut-back version that is hopeless at achieving the same feel of utter devastation, bar the Glowing Sea which managed to convey that but suffered from being 50% smaller than it should have been..
I extend this line of thought for the entire game-map/Commonwealth, everything is reduced.
Still, that giant question mark hangs over the game, and everyone is left wondering just how Bethesda managed to succeed so well at unfulfilling the potential that the game had.
This is just my opinion, so I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Without any first hand accounts, we'll never know for certain.
I don't think they considered his aesthetic style much in any of their games, honestly. It is different (better) than the kitschy americana-type stuff in FO3 and FO4. Has more of a cool sci-fi feeling to it, especially with his mechanical designs.
I don't like how he does clothing and clothing materials, but his scenery and mechanical aesthetic is very nice. I see several outfits in-game taken directly from his sketches. They ought to have used his set design instead, is much better!
Edit: A lot of what I appreciate in games is "cohesion" of writing, design, and the game world. A cool outfit is one thing, but how does it get there?
Example: Where do the BoS get their maroon cable-knit sweaters from? Who would take the time to make these? The leather obviously comes from Brahmin, OK, and there are tanning racks in FH. But maybe include set decorations of outfits in varying stages of completion.
I'm also confused about the temperature in the Fallout world. It is mentioned as being very hot, almost like a desert, which it resembles. By association I can accept that it gets cold at night. But why are so many outfits hot and cumbersome? If you're in a Mad-Max-esque desert, who in their right mind would wear a sweater under leather coveralls? I'd expect to see a lot more rolled-up sleeves, chopped pant legs, and unbuttoned collars.
Bullets -- where do they come from? I'm actually working on a mod that addresses this, but since there are (imaginary) casings strewn all over the ground, wastelanders or wasteland children could make some caps by collecting casings and selling them at trading hubs to be reloaded. In fact I imagine this would be a common job. All the ammo you shoot has most likely been shot 3 or 4 times already, since bullet cartridges of are such precise dimensions, and since you don't see any micrometers lying around, it's safe to assume the average wasteland craftsmen does not have the tools nor skill to manufacture casings by hand of uniform diameter.
Tl;dr I really appreciate when design choices are backed in the game world and make sense, showing more thought behind it than "it looks cool."
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baseline fallout 4 was seriously lacking in story and fleshing out, on further playthrough it has *very* interesting dungeons at times though, and while I hear the DLC is small, it's generally well done where it exists - and I can say this about automatron at any rate even if I haven't played the other two, but I also have paid attention to the general feeling
the good news on top of this is that they were quite good about including little modder's resources in for things that were desired that might pose a problem to the general community and/or more newbie modders (assault rifle, taking over settlements/raiding them system, the lever action rifle, harpoon gun)
as for concept artistry, look, concept art defines the very attitude of the people working on the project, do you know who the face of blizzard is? metzen, not those others, even WITH WoW being its biggest franchise
metzen, and samwise
to be clear, concept artistry the way adamowicz did it from what I'm looking at of his work, and I'm going to be very honest I rarely if ever get the feeling I got from looking at his work... sets everything up, when you're looking at the world and how it is, the tone, the themes, it defines how the game's operating, and this means what kinds of quests would be in keeping with, or out of touch with the game even
the reason jar jar binks is so jarring, is because it's jar jar binks, in star wars, not jar jar binks in teletubbies, samurai jack's concepts define the tone of the series before the first animations are even started
the people doing the little things that are important are generally guided by a vision and that vision if it's good enough, can make even "mediocre" talents sing wonderfully, that's the best way I can describe it, a good concept artist can bring out the latent enthusiasm, passion and creative drive that may be weaker in some people, or just used less often/fully by people normally, I can hardly see someone like moira brown or that one absolutely annoying poindexter working out as characters much in fallout 4 quite like they do in 3 for instance, each individual piece is part of a whole after all
and deacon for instance, while being pretty cool, wouldn't have quite the impact in FO3 as he does in FO4 based on the situations, or at least he'd not be quite so, well fleshed out, his easy going style would be extremely jarring and while that itself could be played for value, the nature of the game kind of pre-empts aspects and situations that make deacon work so well in FO4
I agree 100% but the person supplying the creative direction does not need to be called a "concept artist," it can be anyone with enough of a creative force and diligence to implement their ideas.
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How does losing a concept artist affect the development cycle? I think writers are more important. Concept artists just sit back and spew out these half-baked ideas and sloppy art.
It's a shame that you feel obliged to diminish the work that Adamowicz and other concept artists do, or at least it comes across like this when you refer to it as 'sloppy art'. It also infers ignorance on your part, particularly if you don't know how important Adamowicz general vision was, when it came to the artistic/aesthetic look of Fallout 4, or of the vast contribution he made to the game from this perspective. He'd been with them since 2005, and was the lead concept artist so I have a gut feeling that his death actually did somehow affect development; even if only in a subtle way.
I'm using this primarily as an example of one of the things that happened during development that may have possibly altered the trajectory of the final game we have, as well as asking if anyone knows of other things that impacted the game.
EDIT: I think we can all agree that the writers did a haftassed job.
Concept artist seems like an unnecessary job (i.e. Dead Weight). Same kind of thing as a project where someone designates themselves the "idea person" because actual work is too hard, so they merely suggest ideas for others to follow.
Anyone can come up with ideas, it's nothing special. And concept art is by definition "sloppy," it is meant to be done quickly to get across a certain visual theme, so 3d artists have some direction as what to make.
I'm not personally bashing Adam Adamowicz. I draw a parallel to Michael Kirkbride, he was great for Elder Scrolls, but he wore many hats. He drew pictures, but he also contributed to the writing and backstory. When Kirkbride was no longer involved in the development process, I felt the series was never as good.
My problem is with a specific type of concept artist, who contributes nothing to the team, has an inflated opinion of him/herself, etc. Especially the ones who can't be bothered to do research on the subject of their "concepts." I again reference the Fallout 4 concept art of a revolver-type weapon with a box magazine. Or whoever came up with the petrol generators for settlements.
Ideas are all well and good, but just because they are your ideas doesn't mean they are good ideas. And if you are working in a setting such as Fallout, with pre-established technologies and conventions, you must consider these conventions.
I have personal experience dealing with "pie-in-the-sky" artists (concept and otherwise), in a development team for game, and I assure you, it is a pain in the ass. These came across as "I am too lazy to learn technology, but I want to contribute, so here, have this digital art I made."
As to what may have affected the final game... writers, definitely. They need new ones. Skyrim's quests were boring and uninspired. You cannot defend "Kill the Big Scary Black Dragon" as an original or interesting plot.
The problem is, if you make plot too complex, you lose some of the audience. I'm actually surprised at the FO4 plot. Being kicked out of factions isn't something they've done since Morrowind.
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I have a request for 2 things:
1) I think it would be cool if someone made a version of the army fatigues with the sleeves cut off/removed in the style of some Vietnam War movies
http://www.heyuguys.com/images/2014/03/dafoe-platoon.jpg Like this one but less shot to s***.
2) Also could someone please make a mod that uses the model for the handmade rifles's (from Nuka World) light frame receiver for the powerful automatic receiver because I really like the look of it but I don't want to use a piss weak light frame receiver.
If anyone could do this it would be much appreciated.
I will cut the sleeves off the army fatigues and see how they look, I can't stand them in vanilla format, and I like that picture.
Would need a new texture too, because the vanilla one is too light green.
Do you mean the AK-type receiver without dust cover? I use my own mod Gun Nut which completely re-does upgrades so "powerful receiver" and "light frame" is not a thing, it is just "automatic/semi-auto" and "dust cover/no dust cover"
I love how you can see the bolt carrier slamming back against the spring with each shot.
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I've only played Nuka World once and I did Open Season because I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of taking on another faction versus the others.
What would happen if you started a new game and either a) Rescued the Minutemen and set them up in Sanctuary or b) Just played the game without even going to Concord then went to Nuka World. Could you open all settlements as Raider outposts ?
You can only start it at level 30, so you would have to avoid Concord for all that time. I believe (but have not tested) Preston will hate you for completing Home Sweet Home no matter where he is, or what stage in the Minutemen plotline you are at.
You can claim any settlement you want as a raider outpost (except quest-specific ones). You have options: you can kill everyone there, your own settlers, or talk them into leaving. You can also use unclaimed settlements. This is what I've done, to avoid the loss of innocent lives.
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That was well thought-out and makes sense. Yeah, I'd have to agree with you on the intro sequence lacking in characterization, and I see where you are coming from. Bethesda tried something new with the VP, I can see how people would get upset if they were expecting a mute "blank slate" character. I do think game developers should be encouraged to try new things, otherwise nothing changes.
However, I still find the fanboyism of NV and Witcher hypocritical. People are willing to see only what affirms their opinions.
I'm also fed up with the "Meme Team" who are filled in by their surroundings, and endlessly repeat the "Yes/No(Yes)/More Info/Sarcastic Yes" thing. I'll wager you that most of these guys don't give two shits about "role-playing" and just soak up the popular opinions around them.
Full disclosure; I never liked the silent protagonist. it was fine in Morrowind, because dialog was text based. But being the only mute person in the game kept reminding me that I was playing a game. it was harder to "get into" the character. Instead of a "person," I felt like a loot collector / dungeon plunderer / generic "adventurer."
Fallout 4 shunts a bit of characterization onto the player, using the (scant) background detailing and voice. This takes away the player's agency, as you say, but personally, I found it added a bit of refreshing humanization. And I am really glad they are trying out new things, because I am sick of the same game being re-released since Morrowind.
I also see the other side as well, I can understand why people liked the voiced protagonist, it requires less "effort" on the part of the player, and for some it may help them with coming to grips with the character.
My issue with Fallout 4 is the lack of choice and consequence it's almost impossible to "fail" anything in Fallout 4, (and it should be said many Bethesda games) the fact that they have steam lined the games so much and "handhold" the player is just an issue with more modern games and console games specifically. I'll fully admit that I would classify as a "New Vegas Fanboy" however there are reasons why. In New Vegas there is exactly 1 "essential" character, and that is Yes Man, anyone else, barring children of course (since "omg their killing kids" is a societal hangup rather then a realistic expectation of a game about a post apocalypse of humanity), Obsidian was not afraid to let the player "fail" all of those possible choices have consequences. Fallout 3 and 4, Skyrim ect are so packed full of "story/quest specific" essential characters, that even the possibility of failure doesn't really exist. Fallout 4 had big expectations to live up too, after all it wasn't Bethesda's "freshmen" Fallout game, it's now the "Sophomore" year game. Story wise it didn't seem new "find your son" "find your dad" one of which was more personal for the player (Fallout 3) since the setup for the game had you try and connect with dad and perhaps his reasons for why he left. New Vegas on the other hand, largely makes the motivation of the courier the players. Think about it, why are you going after the chip? Duty to your job? Revenge on the guy that tired to kill you? To ask them "why did you do this to me?" The machinations of the various factions all try to sway the player to their line of thinking/what they want done. There is never a time in New Vegas where "you must do this" comes into play. Fallout 4 on the other hand doesn't allow a "no" all parts of the Dialogue lead to Yes, and sometimes infuriatingly so, given there are several conversations where "no" is even an option but you still are given to do whatever it is.
I don't begrudge Fallout 4 for what it is, which is a sandbox FPS shooter/builder, but when you think of what it could have possibly been, coming off the heels of New Vegas it's sad too think that Bethesda was more interested in "spectacle" (Oh look Power armor and a Deathclaw in the first hour and a half! Look at me!) rather then building a world with interesting stories to be had by the player. For me Fallout 4 classifies as a "good game" just not a particularly good Fallout game.
I agree with you, but I guess I am fine with the game as it is. You should try playing the S.T.A.L.K.E.R games, they are pretty good. "quest characters" die all the time, without you even being in the same map, and there is always a way to complete the quest.
And yeah, the intro sequence with PA and deathclaw is annoying. I don't like the Minuteman "laser-musket-13-colonies" theme at all, nor the family oriented plots.
Admittedly, I haven't read every page of this thread, so apologies if this has already been answered. For a while now, I've been wondering about what happened during development of the game,
and how this impacted the final product that we have; as well as the knock on effect this had regarding the choices Bethesda made for the base game, as well as when it came to the dlc.
For example, the untimely and tragic loss of the amazing concept artist Adam Adamowicz would have reverberated throughout the company, and affected moral of the team who'd just lost someone who was IMHO integral to Bethesda's vision of Fallout.
Also, I've read unsubstantiated claims that the game was originally meant to be released on the previous gen of consoles, but delayed due to unexplained reasons.
Not to mention technical difficulties Bethesda had with the game. I've tried looking into this, as a way of trying to find explanations of why there are parts of the game that feel rushed or underdeveloped, the cut content, etc.
How does losing a concept artist affect the development cycle? I think writers are more important. Concept artists just sit back and spew out these half-baked ideas and sloppy art. One of beth's concept artists came up with the idea for a revolver which also has a magazine. I ask you... is this the kind of person we want dictating design choices? No way!
There is enough inspiration to go around in the Real World.
I think they came up with the "nif snapping" technology used in equipment upgrades and settlement construction, and focused in on this. Hence all the workshop DLCs.
I think the nif snapping is extemely cool, and can't wait to see what they do with it in future titles, but am also hoping it is less of an emphasis. It's a great feature but it does not make a game on its own.
Edit: And yeah, I am playing this more than any other Bethesda game, except Oblivion, which was my "first," before I had other games to compare it to.
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I don't hate FO4, although I'm not entirely crazy about it either.
That said, IMO it's single biggest flaw, is probably it's biggest, most liked feature, the infernal settlement building. While I don't mind the idea of it, I simply don't care for how the entire game seems to revolve around it. It's too much. It's too much micromanaging every single settlement you choose to build.
I would've been far happier with a more scaled back system, with fewer locations to choose from (no more one and 2 man/woman choices), yet have the remaining choices be meatier, with more choices in management than we currently have. This would still allow those who like the idea to continue doing it to their hearts content, while allowing those of us who'd be happier avoiding it altogether to simply play the game without being inundated by it every single time we happen upon a house in the wasteland.
I like that. Sometimes I just don't want to build settlements at all. Other times I do it for hours. But the pathfinding tends to conflict with how I design buildings, and the settlers just end up standing close to the outside wall, or on the roof, and doing nothing. Kind of defeats the purpose.
For once, I am glad there are so many small or undeveloped settlements, because the new raider gameplay.
As I said, I am really glad that the studio is putting in some new ideas. But a bit more emphasis on the narrative, less on the construction, and I think that would make a lot of people happier.
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I think it's hypocritical how everyone hates on the voiced protagonist, saying it ruins the game for them. And these are the same people saying the Witcher games are masterpieces and the model to which all other game developers should aspire.Uh... if by "role-playing" you mean pretending things about your character, then, well, the Witcher games are less of a "role-playing" game than FO4. You are named Geralt, you are always male, you have a distinctive voice, you are a bad-ass and ladies' man. In "role-playing" sense this is like being in a straight-jacket.
I enjoy the Witcher games, I enjoy FO4. I like using what is given to us about the character to flesh them out on my own. Nora in particular has some interesting lines. She was a sorority party-girl in college, you learn this from talking with the BoS doctor. I imagine she smokes cigarettes from her voice acting, which I think is superb. She has a bit of a mean streak. Nate is an all-around OK guy. I'm fine with this. I enjoy listening to them talk in dialogue, which is in real-time and can feature multiple participants. It's cinematic and "immersive."
Contrast this with:
1. Tell me more.
2. OK, let me help you, I'm a great person.
3. Gimme all your caps, loser!
4. [intelligence] You seem ill, let me fix you with stimpack.
5. Let's talk about something else.
With a fluid, intuitive dialog that you can walk away from at any time, with professional voice actors, with pacing and so on. It's always cringe-inducing to see games' attempt at strong emotions, here is no exception, but overall I think the dialog is great. Now it's an actual conversation instead of interrogating an NPC with a list of responses.
I'm going to disagree on your assessment that it's hypocritical to hate on a voice protagonist vs games in which a voiced protagonist is used.
Ok it should be prefaced that I have not played the Witcher games, however as you noted you play the character of Geralt. Whom has a set appearance, set of skills, ect. Now let's compare this too Fallout 4's voiced protagonist AND prior Bethesda RPG's: Oblivion, Morrowind, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas. In the prior games your character is given the bare minimum backstory needed, "You're a prisoner, a Vault Dweller, a Courier, ect" the less is more approach. More freedom to build and design a character in the imagination of the player. In Fallout 4, you have a family, had either military service or was a promising lawyer, was a father/mother, and now has a set voice and it seems set of morals. Even a name of Nate or Nora respectively. All of these facts are -told- to the player, rather then asking the player for the input on their character. Compare the opening of Fallout 3 vs Fallout 4. You start in a vault, how your character reacts to the events happening, your birthday party, how you react to the guests, do you put up with Butch's bullying or not at your party, how you handle taking the G.O.A.T, Do you defend Amata or join in with bullying her with the Tunnel snakes? Finally when your father leaves what do you as the player do? Gun down everyone in the vault? Avoid the guards or kill them? Help Butch or let his Mother die? Or even bully Butch in return? All of these choices for Fallout 3's aprox 1 hr character gen/prologue are the PLAYERS to make, you have agency as the player/character in the story. Compared to Fallout 4's, make your character, talk with the wife, interact with the Vault Tec rep, watch the news, and even finally get into the Vault and get frozen, only to kill about a dozen rad roaches when you thaw out in that same hour or so it will take you. With basically zero agency as the character. Bethesda gave us a preconceived character in Fallout 4 who's only choices are basic stats and physical looks. I'd respect this choice MORE if they didn't half ass it and just said for Fallout 4 "here are the two characters this is their story", The Witcher and Mass Effect you are respectively Geralt/Shepard with a much more narrowly defined "role". Fallout 4 doesn't and so those expecting character creation along the lines of almost every other Bethesda game in their library are likely disappointed in that fact.
The fact that I can replay the opening of Fallout 3 and have an experience where I was a "good guy" told Butch off at my party, and didn't let Amata get bullied, and forgave Butch and saved his mom since I wouldn't let someone die just cause they bullied me as a kid, OR I was an "evil SOB" that didn't stick up for myself, joined in bullying Amata trying to get in good graces with Butch, and then when that didn't happen bullied butch and let his mother die to radroaches, all inform the type of "character" one is trying to portray. The Dialogue and Voiced protagonist in Fallout 4 does not lend itself to 1. making a character "yours" or 2. repeat plays since the dialogue itself is so circular you end up where you started anyway. For myself, and many going into the idea of a then new Bethesda game (where it's overall expected to make a character yours and unique) vs what they delivered for Fallout 4 was a huge change. So I can agree when people say they don't like a voiced protagonist. I can see where they are coming from, if I played Witcher, I didn't "make" the character of Geralt, I am in their shoes and decide their actions and experience their story. Bethesda games have largely been a "blank slate" for character creation, and actions/agency given to the player decide what type of character you are or become, and their is a difference.
That was well thought-out and makes sense. Yeah, I'd have to agree with you on the intro sequence lacking in characterization, and I see where you are coming from. Bethesda tried something new with the VP, I can see how people would get upset if they were expecting a mute "blank slate" character. I do think game developers should be encouraged to try new things, otherwise nothing changes.
However, I still find the fanboyism of NV and Witcher hypocritical. People are willing to see only what affirms their opinions.
I'm also fed up with the "Meme Team" who are filled in by their surroundings, and endlessly repeat the "Yes/No(Yes)/More Info/Sarcastic Yes" thing. I'll wager you that most of these guys don't give two shits about "role-playing" and just soak up the popular opinions around them.
Full disclosure; I never liked the silent protagonist. it was fine in Morrowind, because dialog was text based. But being the only mute person in the game kept reminding me that I was playing a game. it was harder to "get into" the character. Instead of a "person," I felt like a loot collector / dungeon plunderer / generic "adventurer."
Fallout 4 shunts a bit of characterization onto the player, using the (scant) background detailing and voice. This takes away the player's agency, as you say, but personally, I found it added a bit of refreshing humanization. And I am really glad they are trying out new things, because I am sick of the same game being re-released since Morrowind.
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In fact, if you do turn the institute into a crater without evacuating the synths, the Railroad turns instantly hostile. Not only they don't thank you for destroying the institute, but they'll start having a shoot on sight policy of you for killing the synths down there.
Which is the quest that turns the Brotherhood against you, if I recall correctly. Nobody in the Commonwealth will ever agree to just get along.
all commonwealth factions are self delusional and will not accept any other -- for any reason
except maybe
death
that faction they all follow
I like where this is going.
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I didn't have unrealistic expectations. It's not a good Fallout game, it's not an RPG. New Vegas showed what a Fallout game could be, on Bethesda's own engine, and Bethesda f***ed it up.
They're writing lacks anything that could be called pathos, the reconning of ghouls to the east coast was a mistake, but making it so "they don't have to eat" is unforgivable, there's no humor, black humor or otherwise, the plot is wasted on unsympathetic characters, and the premise is wasted on a 2287 setting. It would have been brave to make it a prequel, play in 2077, meet all kinds of characters dying to violence, lack of food and radiation poisoning.
It doesn't even tackle the notions it sets out to deal with: you can't bond with your son, your spouse is wasted as a character when they should have been your first companion and primary councilor. You don't actually deal with the long term consequences of the Brotherood's fascist turn, and you don't see nearly enough collateral damage from the Institute's schemes (children orphaned because their parents were murdered for scrap or have one character who has to go through the grieving process of coming to know a relative they thought they knew had been replaced years ago and everything they thought they did with that person was a lie) to remind of what utter shitstains the Institute is to the Commonwealth. You don't even get to explore the Institute's worst crime: the elimination of the CPG. I heard they didn't actually do it. So what? If true, it's not like you can investigate who did it and clear the Institute's good name as say, rapprochement between the Institute and the Minutemen.
Every opportunity in this game is utterly wasted. Even the DLC is a waste. This game was a waste of my time and my money, and if I could get it back I would.
If you hate it so much, why are you constantly posting about it? FInd something you do enjoy and do that.
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I think it's hypocritical how everyone hates on the voiced protagonist, saying it ruins the game for them. And these are the same people saying the Witcher games are masterpieces and the model to which all other game developers should aspire.
Uh... if by "role-playing" you mean pretending things about your character, then, well, the Witcher games are less of a "role-playing" game than FO4. You are named Geralt, you are always male, you have a distinctive voice, you are a bad-ass and ladies' man. In "role-playing" sense this is like being in a straight-jacket.
I enjoy the Witcher games, I enjoy FO4. I like using what is given to us about the character to flesh them out on my own. Nora in particular has some interesting lines. She was a sorority party-girl in college, you learn this from talking with the BoS doctor. I imagine she smokes cigarettes from her voice acting, which I think is superb. She has a bit of a mean streak. Nate is an all-around OK guy. I'm fine with this. I enjoy listening to them talk in dialogue, which is in real-time and can feature multiple participants. It's cinematic and "immersive."
Contrast this with:
1. Tell me more.
2. OK, let me help you, I'm a great person.
3. Gimme all your caps, loser!
4. [intelligence] You seem ill, let me fix you with stimpack.
5. Let's talk about something else.
With a fluid, intuitive dialog that you can walk away from at any time, with professional voice actors, with pacing and so on. It's always cringe-inducing to see games' attempt at strong emotions, here is no exception, but overall I think the dialog is great. Now it's an actual conversation instead of interrogating an NPC with a list of responses.
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In regards to non "black and white" morality, I think they did a phenomenal job.
Karma -- which was gameplay-enforced morality, defining stuff as inherently "good" versus "evil," I never liked, I'm glad it's gone. Every person has a different idea of what's good and what's bad, and this is reflected in the affinity system. It's elegant and simple.
I do agree with the general consensus that Raiders should become an endgame faction. After finishing the raider questline, I've become impressed with how well they are mobilized. They have couriers back and fourth to Nuka World. They have an information dealer. They seem way more prepared than the Minutemen, at least. So I totally would use them to crack the Institute, if I only could...
I also don't think of the raiders as universally "evil." Some of them are settlers fallen on hard times. Others like Gage just have a different world-view. Now, the Disciples who torture for fun, yeah... that has some "evil" vibes. But at the end of the day, they are survivors too, just like everyone else.
Edit: The whole "we're super evil" flair of the Disciples strikes me as a method of psychological intimidation, like the ancient Assyrians or House Bolton from GoT. Kind of a defense mechanism to ward off competitors.
Still, you do bring up a good point. I wouldn't mind getting a squad of 3 minutemen to help take a settlement, like the Raiders give me when I'm taking a settlement for them.I agree, you are the general after all. You can summon them with a flare gun, I guess...
Killed Preston. The rest of the MInutemen (apart from Hit Squads) are tolerant of me and don't see to know that I am the Boss.
Anyway, I now have 3 raider outposts. I used abandoned settlements so no innocents were harmed. Each outpost is at a location where you can't really do any farming (Croup Manor, Outpost Zimonja, Murkwater). These are also strategically in all corners of the map, so to speak. Each outppost has a palisade of scaffolding and junk fence with guard towers, it looks tacticool.
These 3 outposts are being provisioned by Tenpines Bluff. I'm not going to make any more vassals unless there is a serious shortage of food.
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I'm looking forward to going back and finding the remaining Cappys after all this outpost stuff is taken care of, and just picking through NW, looking through the desert area, etc.
The Disciples are extremely ungrateful. I try to be fair between Operators and Disciples, and the Disciples constantly whine about it. The closest they've come to behind happy is when they have more holdings than the rest of the gangs, by at least 1 park and outpost, and even then they still talk about offing me.
They were dissappointed when I sent them to an empty settlement... they wanted to kill people, and there was no one there, and I am always reminded how they "wanted a real fight." Like, Come on! They got a nice plot of land for free! And they still complain.
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I'm sad to not see them running about in the badlands of Nuka World. Surely they left the safari park at some point, yes? Bloodworms certainly did.
Exactly! They're even seen with nests with hatched eggs and all, plus there are plenty of swampy areas for them to live.
If I ever stop being lazy (or someone else beats me to it), I plan on adding them to the badlands, and maybe a few in the commonwealth. (Maybe optional sewer gators as well... :ermm:)
I've been trying to integrate all the DLC animals into the Commonwealth (Chickens, rabbits, the various types of Brahmin from NW). Would really like a mod like this!
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Well I am still waiting for FO-4 SE to get updated, but I'm not liking the posts I'm reading here and on 2 other forums. It seems Beth had a great idea and as two different posts stated, " ... trashed the DLC and the Game ... " Not a good PR.
The DLC is good, it didn't trash the game. However, it does require you to make some pretty important choices, with hefty consequences, beginning with the quest Home Sweet Home.
These choices have a huge impact on the world, which is refreshing, but also kind of alarming. For example, I have been putting up raider outposts at empty settlements, and the Minutemen are now my enemy. They take shots at me and send squads of guys to kill me. It feels Really Weird to have the Minutemen as enemies, because I was so used to them being the "player's faction," but that's not bad.
People wanted consequences from plot choices, right...? Here they are...
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They are under the raider submenu for me. As Dante stated, the DLC can conflict with mods which add items to the settlement menu. I had this problem too, and updating OCDecorator fixed it.
Also as a general heads-up, I found out that you do lose access to vassal settlements. I found the following console command allows you to regain access, when you click the workbench in console:
setpv ownedbyplayer 1
It doesn't make it into an "official" settlement, I can't send more people there, but it allows me to build defenses and so on, so I guess it's fine.
Edit: I can also confirm that crops from your vassal settlement are automatically deposited into the workshop container of your outpost. Seems to happen once per day, you get messages about it.
I currently have 2 raider outposts supplied by 1 vassal settlement, each outpost gets 6 tatos per day. As a buffer I dumped ~50-60 ears of corn in there just in case something goes wrong.
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Preston turned completely hostile for me. He stole a bunch of stuff from my Sanctuary house. I killed him and then ate his corpse ;(
Kind of annoying that the raiders don't replace the Minutemen.
Honestly I don't see much difference between the two. Settlers are still "sharecroppers" either way. At least the raiders are up-front about who is in charge.
... and they won't get raided anymore, they are already under the "protection" of the gangs.
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I have read that you can re-activate the Gatorclaw cloner and was wondering, how does Cito react (if at all)? Will they only be in the Safari park or do are they also in the outside areas as well?
I instantly fell in love with those big lizards since seeing them in the trailer, so I am seriously tempted to start pumping those things back out into the wastes.
I was wondering the same thing. Nice surprise for the raiders I assigned to that park :)
Take shelter from radstorms
in Discussion
Posted
Huh, thanks guys, I'll try actually hiding in a drain pipe or something next time there is a radstorm, and see if I take any less rads than when outside.
If this is already a thing, it wouldn't be so hard to just make you completely protected while hidden.