HappyHerring

:wallbash: Oh, it really that simple, is it? Did you not read my point about the fact that in terrorism cases witnesses often withdraw at the last minute due to being terrorised? Did you google the tragic case of Jean McConville? Have you any idea how long it has taken us in Britain to nail some of the terrorists in our own midst? We have known who they are for years, they have had "buildings", from which they have spewed their hate politics, nailing them for sure is another matter. As for those articles, well, they are the propaganda of the Moslem Brotherhood itself. They are what they want you to see. I am aghast at how you can try and call your own government terrorists when you clearly have no experience of how real terrorists operate, and post apologia for organisations that really are terrorists or linked with terror. Calling their terrorist buddies "splinter groups" doesn't fool anyone. Terrorists are groups that have not been elected to office, not being able to garner enough popular support to push through their aims, they spit out their dummy in sinister fashion and turn to the any means possible. Some of which means are violent. Some of which means involve forming a public/political front that has nothing to do with terrorism, of course. (That's a little bit of Brit sarcasm btw....) In the real world where at least the western and central european governments have to bear in mind human rights (I'll allow for the moment the your argument that the U.S. is a terrorist organisation, a view which is mainly advocated by the followers of presidents for life, kings and similar despots) the courts in various jurisdictions demand varying degrees of evidence. Any organisation which would hope to survive in the medium term would take notice of what is permissible as evidence in such courts and tailor the organisations and offshoots to allow for the rules. In this manner Sinn Fein spoke for the IRA but supposedly was not the IRA managed to remain legal in both the U.K. & the Irish Republic. Maharth's point about being friends with someone not making you one of them is so true: Sinn Fein/IRA was and probably still is friends with FARC, ETA, the Corsican separatists etc. I won't even remind you of the amusing interception by the French navy some years back of a significant arms shipment from the great charmer himself Ghaddafi! As the saying goes you've got to laugh. :wacko:

As there are many immature parents who lack the skills or inclination to teach children how to behave in social contexts including education might I suggest that we abandon all children to packs of wolves for the first three years of life. Those who survive would be aware of the needs of others besides themselves and might indeed have the self discipline to learn! :dry:

By its very own definition, the USA is a terrorist organisation and I am talking about its actions abroad (though domestically it isn't much better). The truth is simple: if they do it, they are terrorists, if we do it, we are defending ourselves. So when we directly supplied the the Indonesian army with intelligence and weapons, so they could murder nearly a million political dissidents in 1965, we were 'defending our values' from communism. It never ceases to amaze me how important people think 'containment' was, even after the muder of millions at our hands, directly or indirectly. Were our actions in line with terrorism? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnbTnbW2d14 Forgive me for my poorly framed, not very funny, joke. I was interested in whether a state that reserves the right to execute criminals as both punishment and object lesson to other citizens not to go beyond the pale can be labelled a terrorist state. I think this does matter as every functioning state that I can think of is founded upon the basis of being able in extreme circumstances to inflict punishment and violence upon those who do not comply with the government's interpretation of the popular will. Black Operations are not popular will, not even remotely. I refer to domestic killings which result from judicial process such as those executed for rape/murder etc.

By its very own definition, the USA is a terrorist organisation and I am talking about its actions abroad (though domestically it isn't much better). The truth is simple: if they do it, they are terrorists, if we do it, we are defending ourselves. So when we directly supplied the the Indonesian army with intelligence and weapons, so they could murder nearly a million political dissidents in 1965, we were 'defending our values' from communism. It never ceases to amaze me how important people think 'containment' was, even after the muder of millions at our hands, directly or indirectly. Were our actions in line with terrorism? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnbTnbW2d14 Forgive me for my poorly framed, not very funny, joke. I was interested in whether a state that reserves the right to execute criminals as both punishment and object lesson to other citizens not to go beyond the pale can be labelled a terrorist state. I think this does matter as every functioning state that I can think of is founded upon the basis of being able in extreme circumstances to inflict punishment and violence upon those who do not comply with the government's interpretation of the popular will.

Ah, so I'm a bluffing hypocrite, eh? Draw your sword, then!http://www.thenexusforums.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/pirate.gif I demand satisfaction! hehehe Well, I still think we're all the same damn race...until we have definite proof that the aliens came down and fooled around with the genes of 7 different (and some lost) monkey species, and put one each in North America, S. America, Africa, Sotheast Asia, Hyboria, Australia, and Antarctica (poor monkeys). In this case I'll be craven enough to admit to being a bluffing hypocrite (it's something to do first thing in the morning) and lurk in the shadows for a while... *happy pig does a runner*:sweat:

Is an organisation or state which uses either the threat or actual violence against citizens who do not comply with the will of the organisation a terrorist organisation? If so then we must add such nations as the U.S. which reserve the right to kill those who do not follow, be they murderers or whatever the rules of which legislators frame to pacify the whims of a public to the list of similar terrorist states such as Iran and North Korea. I find the idea amusing, what do you think? :huh:

Which is the best country in the world and what is the immigration policy, I'm hoping it is somewhere in polynesia!:thumbsup:

Race does not have to be an issue of colouration. the destruction of ages past and present is an obvious example. As humans we are group orientated, this is something which is inherent in our make up. Some of us may try to bluff our way through saying that we are of the human race, which has an element of truth but I suspect such people of hypocricy just as I would racial supremacists of blind hatred. Only a fool or a sociologist, obviously in may cases they are the same thing, would deny the existence or desireablility of group identity, where does charity or compassion for non blood companions or strangers come from? Insofar as obvious racism is concerned we might look at Africa where, for instance in Zimbabwe, people who have a paler skin are viewed as non native even if born on the continent. Let us remember hatred can work in many ways, the people who all should despise are those who would wish to cause antagonism based on non group/race commonality.

News: wasn't only the U.S. who entered Afghanistan, check it up! If this is a U.S. only topic and not a 'Western' topic please state it to be so, 'cos us poor blighters who are not fortuntate to be born American and do all that patriotic flag waving saluting on going to school everyday might get uppity ideas and think that it is an open subject.:biggrin: The first post talked about the USA, and US presidents. I don't know why it would seem like it was a topic focused towards the US... I am not a blind patriot or a stereotypical "USA IS NUMBER ONE" American. I just made the topic trying to focus on the US. Next time ill make that more clear, sorry if anyone misunderstood it. you Excuse me for being obtuse but there is such a thing as a stereotypical "USA is not number one", forgive me for assuming from your many posts that you are such a being. P.S. Aurelius, two of my favourite anthems are the U.S. and French. Let's remember after all that the events of those times were carried on by peoples of those times and it is up to us wherever we are to strive to equal them if possible!:thumbsup:

"it is difficult to believe that there is no 'real physical evidence' of bugeyed/grey/nordic/men in black" Bit confused, was that a typo or am I missing something? I have not even bothered to mention other such manifestations of the iconography of 'extraterrestrials' such as the late 19th century interpretation of 'Chinese' type aliens. Forgive me for being lazy when running together what are the manifestations of the same fantasies. Just as each age produces it's own version of courageous anti establishmentism - within a cosy framework (Europe, U.S. and Australasia etc) so each decade if not era produces it's own interpretation of 'phenomena' be they extraterrestrials or supernatural ghosties.

News: wasn't only the U.S. who entered Afghanistan, check it up! If this is a U.S. only topic and not a 'Western' topic please state it to be so, 'cos us poor blighters who are not fortuntate to be born American and do all that patriotic flag waving saluting on going to school everyday might get uppity ideas and think that it is an open subject.:biggrin:

So, like, there is not a whole industry of people who prey on the credulous? There are so many people in the world and so many agendas, it is difficult to believe that there is no 'real physical evidence' of bugeyed/grey/nordic/men in black/whatever the popular stereotype of an E.T. might be at the moment. A tip to you all; try reading some of the sceptical pods which are as easily obtainable as the conspiracy type and far more logical. I believe in alien life but I doubt I'll find it in Tesco unless you count chavs and Jerermy Kyle types!

Much as I may disagree with both of you on occassion, I find both you Aurelius and ginnyfizz to be the most cogent and reasonable posters. Go Navy!:thumbsup:

Whoo hoo, so Maharth, it is not acceptable to arrest a person based on the suspicion of terrorism. Copper: "Sorry sir, though you have a suicide vest and a video proclaiming your actions to be against the west based on a totalitarian ideology, you have not actually killed anyone yet and so I can merely suspect that you are a terrorist. If you wish me to arrest you please come back when you have successfully detonated a device and then I will be able to arrest you for an actual offence". Please do not proceed to bore me on the absurd basis of your assumption that anyone involved in this debate is American, the tedium of your parochial concerns threatens to curtail the interest of oh so many who read these posts. This may amaze you but the whole world does not sweat itself over politically appointed judges interpreting a document framed for a society which was just about to enter the industrial revolution, if we wished such entertainment based on obsolete societies we would look for the more obvious comedy of the Iranian courts :yucky:

So the Egptyian military are to allow the Iranians through the Suez Canal - please pause for my fake astonishment! - hmmmm, the inherent conservatism in the region is starting to show itself! This is so easy for me to say in my semi-comfortable european home but "keep struggling", let this be the middle eastern era of liberal revolution!

How curious that the 'revolutionary' government of Libya, who in the past has supported everyone from I.R.A. to Corsican nationalists to F.A.R.C. should respond to the expresion of citizens' dissatisfaction with brutal violence, maybe the security apparatus is under some missaprehension about the desires of the citizen committees... Hopefully bang goes another scummy, squalid dictatorship! :thumbsup:

Whether they had planned it or not, I very much doubt that the timing is a coincidence. There is a lot of trouble in the region right now. Iran is having problems of its' own due to that turbulence. So Ahmedinajad decides to stage a distraction manoeuvre precisely in the hope of provoking an incident that can allow him to invoke the "Muslim vs America" argument and unite his people. But I suspect neither the USA nor the Iranian people are going to fall for that. He's a worried man I don't doubt. It's in his interests to try and stir things up. Yes the Iranians are doing that ,but there are those in Israel who have been playing their own games of trying to give the revolts a certain color or context .They tried in Egypt with the references to the Muslim Brotherhood bogeyman and their doing the same with this recent announcement of Iran .The point is if your the Americans and you allow that painting of context to be applied to these current democratic revolts ,you will have missed what is really happening and that is what is misplaced in the insinuations they are making .These democratic revolts are one thing , the actions of the Iranians or even the Israeli's are another ,get those interests confused and it could result in exactly what the Iranians want ,a general middle east anti American uprising.For the Americans allowing Saudi Arabia or Israel or Iran or anyone else to tie these democratic revolts with their antics or interests in the region could be a fatal mistake for the Americans should they fall into one of those traps .See it for what it is , one is one thing ,the other is another and don't mix the two. I totally take on board your point, which is why I say Ahmedinajad's stunt is a crude one that is doomed to fail in the provocation stakes. He's trying something that isn't going to work. The USA won't rise to the bait. The Iranian people won't fall for it. He is, as it were, shouting at an empty room. And, with respect, a court of law in the US has found that the Muslim Brotherhood are something rather more than a mere mythical bogeyman. Investigative journalism here in the UK has borne this out. Sedition is part and parcel of their mission statement. Agreed it is a stunt of the type which the Conservative/Revolutionary Guard axis of the Iranian regime seem to delight in. I suspect the intention was to provoke Israel rather than directly the U.S. as in the Iranian estimation they could be expected to be drawn in to the situation in any event. I see no possibility that the Israelis would allow such a provocative thing as an Iranian military detachment visiting Gaza when they were prepared to put up with internation condemnation of the interception of the Turkish flotilla. Let us consider the state in Lebanon at the moment, the Shia clients of Iran have gained power while having an international court statement hanging over them. The supposed freedom fighters of Lebanon need something to deflect arab attention from the likely statement that they are in fact traitors to their own nation. A brief military exchange between the Iranians and the Israelis, even at the cost of wrecked Iranian war vessels, might have been calculated as worthwhile as a trigger for a Shia provocation against the north of Israel. End result of such confict, other than thousands of innocent dead (martyrs, so in the mind of the fanatics they shouldn't mind their fates), would be kudos for Hezbollah and Iran. Just as western nations cannot predict everything neither can middle eastern states, at the moment I wouldn't put it past the Iranians to try to go bluff and actually go through the canal at the second attempt in what would be a convenient deflection excercise for both themselves and the arab nations who cannot stand them.:mad:

If I were the Egyptian military I'd want everyone back to work to reduce the opportunities for people to maintain momentum in struggling for real freedoms and not the increments which are likely to come.:confused:

Unfortunately I just cannot affort to become a premium supporter of the nexus, for that and also the reason of so much pleasure provided I'm fully prepared to accept the advertising policies as driven by neccessity on the site. Even before I joined I lurked at the fringes gobbling down sub 2meg downloads and very much appreciate everything I've had from the site. I don't crawl here but for someone like me who only previously used the net for walkthroughs and total war mod downloads this site is a boon which needs to be apprecieated by us non premium members in particular.