Pevey

June 28, 2015

It's just a checksum file. Just leave it be.

May 28, 2015

In response to post #25385349. #25526959, #25608879 are all replies on the same post.

sevencardz wrote: I'm back again with more suggestions. :D

Love the ability to turn a post into a bug, but I find myself needing just the reverse of this more often. I want to keep my bug reports section nice and tidy without flat out deleting my poor user's bug reports (some of which appear to be unrelated or load order issues).

Also, maybe authors could define a minimum kudo requirement for a user to have in order to post bugs? I dunno, just throwin' ideas out to see what sticks. I'm thinking a "You need a minimum of 5 kudos to post bug reports on this mod" sort of thing.

As has been stated before, being able to mark a bug report as a 'mod incompatibility' or 'feature request' somehow would also be very handy.

Pevey wrote: I just mark those as "Not a Bug" and explain in a reply to that bug report that mod incompatibilities and feature requests are not bugs.

sevencardz wrote: True, but we have this nice management system for bugs now, so I guess I'd like to see that expanded to handle feature requests too, without pushing my bug count up. Maybe some way for users to vote on bugs and/or feature requests to help prioritize things and give users a way to see what's in the works besides just bug fixes.

In my view, feature requests are totally different from bugs and should not be part of the same system. Feature requests have no business being reported as bugs, and I would just tell users that and mark it as Not a Bug.

May 25, 2015

In response to post #25385349.

sevencardz wrote: I'm back again with more suggestions. :D

Love the ability to turn a post into a bug, but I find myself needing just the reverse of this more often. I want to keep my bug reports section nice and tidy without flat out deleting my poor user's bug reports (some of which appear to be unrelated or load order issues).

Also, maybe authors could define a minimum kudo requirement for a user to have in order to post bugs? I dunno, just throwin' ideas out to see what sticks. I'm thinking a "You need a minimum of 5 kudos to post bug reports on this mod" sort of thing.

As has been stated before, being able to mark a bug report as a 'mod incompatibility' or 'feature request' somehow would also be very handy.

I just mark those as "Not a Bug" and explain in a reply to that bug report that mod incompatibilities and feature requests are not bugs.

May 23, 2015

Tbh there is lots of "questionable" stuff here on Nexus as well, and if you truly take an "indifferent" stance towards LL then you wouldn't blacklist them.
You can't claim to simply ignore them when you go out of your way by putting them on a blacklist and as far as I know the moderators there also do not tolerate any stealing of mods or mod assets.
The whole thing just seems personal to me.

my 2 cents.

Was going to say something very similar. Totally agree.

May 21, 2015

If you use some sort of BSA optimizer, don't do that. Compression and music don't mix in Skyrim. That's my only guess.

May 18, 2015

What is the script attached to the disabled object meant to do? My guess is that the oninit event would not fire until the objectreference is enabled, meaning the script may technically be working fine, but it's not actually doing anything until the object has been enabled because it hasn't received any events yet. Just a guess, I've never tested when exactly oninit() runs for an object reference that is initially disabled. It normally runs the first time the user loads a cell with the object reference present.

May 14, 2015

If you need it to attach to an object, you could use a quest and then point to that object as a quest alias. Not sure if that's a viable solution for whatever you're looking to do here, but that's one way to attach new properties because you could attach a new script to the reference alias that will init when the quest is started, not when the object is first loaded.

It's clunky, I'm just throwing out possibilities.

May 13, 2015

You could still implement a skill/perk mod that doesn't conflict. You just can't show it on the Skyrim skills menu without conflicts. But you can track the skill yourself, and add perks yourself through some other mechanism than the skill menu.

May 13, 2015

I use formlists in place of arrays in one case because of the ability to make formlists of formlists. It's the closest you can get to multi-dimensional arrays in Skyrim. The only trick is that you have to type every single item within a formlist when you reference it.

Instead of this:

HotkeyItems[i].AddForm(item)

This:

(HotkeyItems[i] As FormList).AddForm(item)

May 13, 2015

I imagine it's what cooley said. Properties get filled on init. So if you are loading a save after whatever the script is attached to was already first loaded, the new properties will not fill correctly. You can try opening the console and using reloadscript, but I doubt even that would cause the new properties to fill if whatever the script is attached to was already initialized. Could be wrong on that, though. Worth a try.

May 13, 2015

In response to post #25106774. #25110759, #25131594, #25199344 are all replies on the same post.

EnvyDeveloper wrote: I can't upload any images to my mod. It just hangs perpetually when I try to upload it. :(

ElfyPers0n wrote: Same here :/
Edit: It worked on IE, for some reason.

EnvyDeveloper wrote: It doesn't work in IE for me.

mindumindumindu wrote: Just tried with IE also, can confirm. It just refuses to upload, period. On my main browser, dragging and placing does nothing, while clicking the manual upload button also does nothing. On IE, dragging and dropping only shows the image on my computer while not actually uploading the image, while the manual button - surprise, surprise - also does not work.

At this point, I am wondering what I should do to use the new and "improved" image system that replaced the perfectly functional old image upload system, should I download three alternate browsers in the vain hope that one of them will allow me to post images of my mods/stuff I downloaded to other users who may benefit from knowing what they're downloading beforehand? Should I beg others for whom this incorrigible new system works to upload my images for me?

I can't imagine who in the world is so inconvenienced by reloading pages that they can use it as justification to break the previously-functional image system. Whoever you guys are/were, thanks guys!

Not a fix for IE, but just so you can work around, I can confirm it worked great with Firefox. It worked so much better than the old method.

May 12, 2015

In response to post #25091049. #25111084, #25116644, #25120234, #25160479, #25163064, #25172664, #25179314 are all replies on the same post.

Sharlikran wrote: As helpful as this will be I am wondering if there are plans to have certain designated members have the ability to upload the fixes themselves. For example, a mod Ambassador. An author could have a mod with deleted NavMeshes or deleted references and doesn't know that any mod loaded after the mod that tries to access one of the deleted NavMeshes or deleted references will cause Skyrim to Crash. A mod Ambassador could resolve the issues and upload a new file on behalf of the author.

Granted that could be an op-in type of feature as well however, I recommend against it. The intent is not to disparage the authors work or to change the creative intent of the mod. It is only intended to resolve critical issues and to help the modding community have a more stable game experience. This would also allow some mods to be fixed when the author no longer maintains the mod. Permissions wouldn't be an issue because the same mod that the author wrote is simply fixed and uploaded to the same authors page.

B1gBadDaddy wrote: You can already allow other users to edit your file, in the Edit Attributes options :) Unless I'm misreading what you're saying.

You would need to set them yourself in this case. Unless you're suggesting the nexus creates a team of people to do this.

ThreeTen wrote: "This would also allow some mods to be fixed when the author no longer maintains the mod." I feel your pain there. Many of the errors are from mods that are no longer actively maintained (mod authors are unreachable), We can try to upload new files as fixes but theres a small chance people would even notice and im pretty sure thats against the nexus rules to begin with.

Having *official* fixes that are perhaps linked to this bug report system would help these old but still extremely popular mods would go a long way.

B1gBadDaddy wrote: I'm pretty sure this would also encroach upon the file permission debate.

Sharlikran wrote: B1gBadDaddy, no I'm not talking about that. For example if an Ambassador knew a mod had deleted references and NavMeshes and other issues that will cause a CTD he could fix the mod and upload the new version. The ambassador wouldn't need to ask permission it would just be done. Not to be arrogant or disparage the Authors work but to benefit the modding community and provide stability for the mod.

For mods that are no longer maintained this would be a huge help and would circumvent the need to ask for permission. For mods that are popular and fairly new some mod authors simply don't know how to fix critical issues even though there are Wiki Pages, Forum Posts, and Youtube Videos. There are many example of the errors and CTDs from credible people like Myself, Zilav, Hlp, Arthmoor, Gopher, to name a few that can demonstrate how a Deleted NavMesh effects the game. The best example being a mod that alters the NavMesh in the Breezehome. If the mod author doesn't have a separate version for Skyrim.esm only and one for Hearthfires, anyone with Hearthfires will get a CTD entering the Breezehome if they have the Skyrim only version. So this isn't conjecture.

As far as permissions that's not an issue because you upload it to the original authors page. A mod ambassador would be like a forum moderator so only a few select people would have access to do this. As far as users knowing it would be the same way it is now where when you open NMM you see that a new version is available.

B1gBadDaddy wrote: I would support this idea for sure, and I see no reason why modders wouldn't.

Pevey wrote: This can already be done if the mod creator's permissions allow it. Mod creators don't set those permissions without some thought. What you have done with the patches, Sharlikran--obtaining permission from the original creator of the mod--that is exactly how it should be done. Anything else is IP theft and should not be allowed. It may be inconvenient, but that's just the way it is. I find it inconvenient that I don't have access to the Windows source code so that I can make certain "fixes" and redistribute my preferred version (all credit to Microsoft, of course), but that's just the way it is. What you're proposing has been discussed before and is a non-starter for most mod creators. If the Nexus allowed it, mod creators would revolt, which is why we have the permissions system we have.

Saggaris wrote: Perhaps Pevey, there could be an 'Opt in' button for a Nexus Ambassador to 'help' where things are just too much for the Author, I for one would welcome help on most/any of my fiddelings, But... I can see a problem of many more mods being created in a very slapdash manner being uploaded and left to the Ambassadors to sort out!
Secondly, would the 'Ambassadors' get recompense for their continued assistance to the original Authors or would they just spend loads of their time working through a backlog of bugs that in itself would no doubt be boring, monotonous and thankless?

Perhaps I'm reading more into this than is there and adding experience from 'No Grip Racing' where on one occasion a popular mod just wouldn't work and the a particular moderator got fed up with attempting to contact the Author for a fix and threatened to pull the mod down as it fell below standard, another Modder offered to help and fix the file to make it usable, excellent job everyone said and downloaded the new file, however at no point is the fixer credited

There is already an opt-in for this. Look at your permissions settings.

May 12, 2015

In response to post #25091049. #25111084, #25116644, #25120234, #25160479, #25163064 are all replies on the same post.

Sharlikran wrote: As helpful as this will be I am wondering if there are plans to have certain designated members have the ability to upload the fixes themselves. For example, a mod Ambassador. An author could have a mod with deleted NavMeshes or deleted references and doesn't know that any mod loaded after the mod that tries to access one of the deleted NavMeshes or deleted references will cause Skyrim to Crash. A mod Ambassador could resolve the issues and upload a new file on behalf of the author.

Granted that could be an op-in type of feature as well however, I recommend against it. The intent is not to disparage the authors work or to change the creative intent of the mod. It is only intended to resolve critical issues and to help the modding community have a more stable game experience. This would also allow some mods to be fixed when the author no longer maintains the mod. Permissions wouldn't be an issue because the same mod that the author wrote is simply fixed and uploaded to the same authors page.

B1gBadDaddy wrote: You can already allow other users to edit your file, in the Edit Attributes options :) Unless I'm misreading what you're saying.

You would need to set them yourself in this case. Unless you're suggesting the nexus creates a team of people to do this.

ThreeTen wrote: "This would also allow some mods to be fixed when the author no longer maintains the mod." I feel your pain there. Many of the errors are from mods that are no longer actively maintained (mod authors are unreachable), We can try to upload new files as fixes but theres a small chance people would even notice and im pretty sure thats against the nexus rules to begin with.

Having *official* fixes that are perhaps linked to this bug report system would help these old but still extremely popular mods would go a long way.

B1gBadDaddy wrote: I'm pretty sure this would also encroach upon the file permission debate.

Sharlikran wrote: B1gBadDaddy, no I'm not talking about that. For example if an Ambassador knew a mod had deleted references and NavMeshes and other issues that will cause a CTD he could fix the mod and upload the new version. The ambassador wouldn't need to ask permission it would just be done. Not to be arrogant or disparage the Authors work but to benefit the modding community and provide stability for the mod.

For mods that are no longer maintained this would be a huge help and would circumvent the need to ask for permission. For mods that are popular and fairly new some mod authors simply don't know how to fix critical issues even though there are Wiki Pages, Forum Posts, and Youtube Videos. There are many example of the errors and CTDs from credible people like Myself, Zilav, Hlp, Arthmoor, Gopher, to name a few that can demonstrate how a Deleted NavMesh effects the game. The best example being a mod that alters the NavMesh in the Breezehome. If the mod author doesn't have a separate version for Skyrim.esm only and one for Hearthfires, anyone with Hearthfires will get a CTD entering the Breezehome if they have the Skyrim only version. So this isn't conjecture.

As far as permissions that's not an issue because you upload it to the original authors page. A mod ambassador would be like a forum moderator so only a few select people would have access to do this. As far as users knowing it would be the same way it is now where when you open NMM you see that a new version is available.

B1gBadDaddy wrote: I would support this idea for sure, and I see no reason why modders wouldn't.

This can already be done if the mod creator's permissions allow it. Mod creators don't set those permissions without some thought. What you have done with the patches, Sharlikran--obtaining permission from the original creator of the mod--that is exactly how it should be done. Anything else is IP theft and should not be allowed. It may be inconvenient, but that's just the way it is. I find it inconvenient that I don't have access to the Windows source code so that I can make certain "fixes" and redistribute my preferred version (all credit to Microsoft, of course), but that's just the way it is. What you're proposing has been discussed before and is a non-starter for most mod creators. If the Nexus allowed it, mod creators would revolt, which is why we have the permissions system we have.

May 10, 2015

I don't know what I would do without the wiki. I am so grateful for the people who have taken the time to add all that information. I certainly have not done my share.

As to the MCM, that really shouldn't be your first attempt at Papyrus. That's more Intermediate level, you need to start at Beginner. Everyone starts there. Google for Cipcis and try some of his/her tutorials first.

EDIT: I did it for you, here's a link: http://www.cipscis.com/skyrim/tutorials/beginners.aspx

May 9, 2015

As to the first part, the site is having some issues for some people this morning (including me). This can happen in times of heavy traffic or during upgrades to the backend. As to the second part, well, that was really uncalled for. A minority of people on this site use NMM (I do, it's the easiest IMO), and the Nexus doesn't even have a way to know or track when you make donations to modders. Sheesh.

May 9, 2015

I would still suggest the method lofgren describes above. The reason is to make it more user-proof. If an user uninstalls half-way through a game, using the quest alias approach would drop all the aliases after uninstall and set them back to their default. Perfect uninstall solution. If you use the commands you found to actually change the status from the default, that will persist in the save after uninstall.

May 9, 2015

EDIT: I shouldn't be snarky. In all seriousness to the original OP, you're not going to get any help from anyone who actually knows what they're doing if you ask in that way. Also, you only get what you give. Help out others with their mods and make some further progress learning to mod on your own... In short, build up a skillset you can share before asking someone with real skills to share them with you to make the mod you envision.

May 7, 2015

Use Tes5Edit to open the mod first and see the form IDs of anything the mod is adding/changing. Then you can find them easily in the CK.

May 7, 2015

Great idea.

May 2, 2015

In response to post #24896554.

sunshinenbrick wrote:

In response to post #24871339. #24886114, #24887249, #24887719, #24888359, #24889504, #24889659, #24890009, #24890154, #24890484, #24890884, #24891049, #24891434, #24891459, #24892539, #24892854, #24893109, #24893609, #24894184 are all replies on the same post.

phantompally76 wrote: There will be no sweeping the past couple of weeks under the rug. Too much has happened; too much as been said. Too many true colors have been shown.

This controversy has exposed a rift that has existed between mod authors and mod users for years. The nature of the relationship between those entities has changed forever. Mutual trust, appreciation and respect are gone. Mod authors used this controversy as an excuse to lash out at mod users for not being appreciative enough (with their wallets) over the years, and for not supporting the monetization of amateur modding. And mod users used it as an excuse to lash out at mod authors who don't recognize mod users as being an equally important factor in the modding community, and for trivializing users' thankfulness and gratitude or authors' efforts because it wasn't in the form of a check.

No, this tale is not complete, and in the end, no one "won" anything. We lost some really good mod authors. On the other hand, we lost some really arrogant, selfish and belligerent mod authors as well. We also lost several dedicated and appreciative mod users, and yes, we lost some unrepentant sociopaths who weren't here to argue for any cause, but instead to foment strife and ill will.

But what did we gain? New blood? New modders to replace the old? I'm not so sure that anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 4 years and has never played Skyrim is going to pick it up as a result of this fiasco. Will mod users who have never even tried to make a mod before step up and replace the casualties? In a toxic environment where mod users are lashing out at the most trivial issues with mods, and mod authors are lashing out at the most trivial criticisms, would any sane individual want to get involved in this community? I guess we'll find out.

My own personal modding habits are definitely changing. Moving forward, I won't be using any mods that are dependent upon SkyUI (not only because they were going to charge for the latest version, but because of the arrogant, taunting, condescending manner in which SkyUI's devs addressed the entire community; proponents AND opponents of paid modding alike), so there goes 90+% of the mods out there. And that's ok. I was getting really fed up with script-intensive mods causing save bloat and CTDs anyway. And today I remembered that I only ever used SkyUI because I was compelled to, and that I actually preferred the vanilla menus all along.

So moving forward, my modding is probably going to be restricted to texture replacers, and that's ok, too. It will be nice to not have to worry about whether a mod is going to glitch the game or make it unplayable. I've actually been having fun the past day or two loading up on mods that replace SMIM; mods I would have otherwise never even looked for, and that might finally get their fair shake in the spotlight. That, at least, may be ONE positive that comes out of this ordeal.
Brasscatcher wrote: Unfortunate, but very very true, man. I just rushed my last save to endgame because I plan on flushing the deck. I will not say that I didn't enjoy seeing the artistry or the contributions made by some of the mods I used on this run; as a narrative-oriented player, one of the things I enjoy about modding a game is how we each can alter the narrative for each other's experience of the game...but I'm definitely going to have to reassess my posture on a few things going forward.
GrimCreation wrote: I'd be inclined to agree with some of your points in regards to all lashing out on all sides which took place in this paid mod mess, though I do find your take a bit extreme for my tastes.
Further more I do believe you're generalizing a bit too much then what I'd think would be reasonably fair. The community is huge both in regards to mod creators and users.
Is it really fair to lump bulk of each respective group into the 2 major fighting sides?
Also just because this event was horrible train wreck doesn't mean future will be so grim. People can learn from their mistakes and make good efforts not to repeat them.

However you are entitled to your own views and as fairly rational person I shall respect that even if I don't agree with all of it.
sunshinenbrick wrote: I feel a little self-conscious linking my own post but it is part of discussion that is blooming here, one that we must not forget. Some here have read parts of this thread before and I promise this will be my last reference to it as I feel I have taken it as far as I can really.

From the Topic: 'Is the word "user" negative?

My final post:

Thanks for the responses! I would have to agree there never can be anything wrong with the word "user" as word in its own right, and maybe all this simply has not been an issue that has entered people's minds till now, as the boat had not yet been rocked.

My justification for asking the question in the first place, which has garnered a few views since this happened, was from the incisive approach that the, shall we say far right and far left, seemed to take on the many issues, with a strong sense of immediate "us vs. them" mentality. I (and maybe a few others) would like to try and understand these issues and allow others to contribute to the discussion. This is not the conclusive chapter, as it seems common sense that when the next wave of potential changes come, a number of the 9 million people from BOTH "camps" may, in the heat of the moment, feel misrepresented or unappreciated and therefore feel threatened and lash out, like ANY HUMAN would.

Interestingly on the subject of self worth, I tried to donate to a member yesterday for what I thought was a commendable effort in helping the community. The member said, but I have no mods of my own, and was genuinely shocked at the idea of why someone would want to donate to them.

I just wanted to throw the doors open as to why exactly we all are here, as for me it is most certainly not just about downloading mods, yet I also, most certainly, do not fall in to the mod "author" camp. As a Graphic Designer/Lecturer, and an aspiring, experimental "modder", troubleshooter, and veteran game emulation enthusiast, I feel I fall somewhere in the middle of all this, as do perhaps the vast majority of people I have had the pleasure to become acquainted with over the years.

I only hope for everyone's own sake we can find a cohesion so we can all exist together and not take each other for granted. Ok, its cliche, but 'united we stand, divided we fall'

Thanks for reading.

SNB

Link to discussion, please add your opinions:

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/
WightMage wrote: I'm afraid that while I understand your actions, they are a bit extreme for my taste. The us versus them mentality comes from users of all sides, and I believe we do no one favors for "scorching the earth." In the case of SMIM and SkyUI for instancw, it is worth noting that Brumbek and Schlangster respectfully are trying to make amends with the community- Brumbek is re-releasing his mod and left said apology on the mod description page, and Schlangster of SkyUI has stated that he "is not a sore loser" and will release SkyUI 5.0 here after the next SKSE update.

Certainly they were in error earlier in the conflict, but does it not mean anything that they're trying to work with us instead of casting us off, like others already have? And what so we gain from spitting upon their apologies like that?

It is everyone's own decision and right to make their mods compatible with theirs or not, but I don't think we will really fix our community until we can forgive those who ask for forgiveness. And I may suffer from foot in mouth somewhere down the line but, come on man. The only ones holding back the Nexus' growth is us. Few things are inevitable if people are just willing to try.
LP1 wrote: Mods would exist and be shared even if there weren't mod users (users who don't do any modding themselves). That's how the community started. On the other hand, mods would not exist without mod authors. A significant chunk of mods would not exist if it weren't for a single team of mod authors: the SkyUI team. All MCM-driven mods have them to thank.

So if you are a mod user, you can tell yourself that you are just as important to this community as a mod author. But you're not.
Tyerial12 wrote: and mod authors would have nothing to share with or make money without the users so yeah.. When people release mods they do it for fun and to get reconized as a mod author so tit for tat
LP1 wrote: Modders would share with other modders. Again, that's how the community started. Leeches contribute nothing. They are not important to the community. They are important to this site, and this site will treat them well, because this site is ad-supported. Leeches == revenue. And, yes, some mod authors do seek recognition. But mostly from other mod authors. And just as many couldn't care less. Leeches are totally unnecessary to modding. Mod authors are absolutely essential. So, no, there is not equal footing. Users who think they should have an equal say and don't see that as rampant entitlement are just fooling themselves.
sunshinenbrick wrote: @ LP1

While I see what you are saying (I think) it is true that the number of people who consume everything and give NOTHING back are not the vast majority of people.

I do a lot of modding on my games, from armors to textures, a little bit of scripting, custom plugins and ENB configurations, but I unfortunately have a business (so I can have money to donate to modders) and a family (who I have to save some of my money to look after). This means I do not have the time to commit myself to release anything I would feel able to support enough to warrant charging for it, I am an amateur. I also take copyright very seriously and therefore do not feel like I should be benefiting from many many years of hard work and passion.

While we do have the less knowledgeable newer generations who do unfortunately (not always intentionally) see the world as "theirs for the taking", there are equally people who have come into the scene, do a re-texture and speak as if they had created SkyUI or Falksaar.

My point is that we all started out not knowing anything and we build our knowledge up over time, some more quickly as they may be young and learning coding at school, others slower because it is a hobby outside their day to day commitment of being a part of a complex society.

Speaking of society and "community" perhaps we should take the responsibility to teach and help the people who may not know any better, rather than just putting people into two camps of "useful" and "useless".
Tyerial12 wrote: i do not agree at all as sharing with other modders would also make the modder a user aswell. as if there was no users the population would drop and so would your endorsements and the sites population

but i will not argue with the blind. Its true mod authors are important but so is the users aswell. you guys want money for your efforts but think users are not important? good luck selling your stuff then

see ya
Farvahar wrote: To follow up on your statements on down-scaling the ambitiousness of modding in order to avoid save game bloat and other performance issues:

I deleted Skyrim from my machine in protest of Valve/ZeniMax shenanigans. When the dust settled, I reloaded it in order to try the game first from a vanilla standpoint, and then to load select mods with some donations to each mod author that I want to support.

I find the vanilla game to be absolutely acceptable, and it runs quicker, loads faster, and saves within a second or so. There are things that can be improved, and things that can be added, but I will do so in a more controlled fashion than my first couple of years as a mod user.

I actually think this ordeal can give Skyrim modding a second wind, but the pressure will be on with GTA V and Witcher 3 as well as Fallout 4.
LP1 wrote: Modders have businesses and families, too. And yet they contribute anyway. No one has the right to tell them they can't attach a price tag to something if that's what they choose, unless it it's Beth. Because it's Beth IP. Angry mob or not, time moves on and paid modding will eventually come to TES. Users don't get to make that choice for modders. Some mod authors will always choose to give away their stuff for free. Others will chose to charge. It's the same as someone choosing to spend time at the business instead of making mods for the community. Everyone gets to make their own economic decisions, whether we all like them or agree with them or not. If someone decides to attach a price tag to their work, I can choose to pay it or not pay it. I can't choose to force them not to be able to charge to begin with. At least not without feeling like a terrible person. Youtubers make money off of modding if they are good. The Nexus makes money off of modding because it is good. Modders should be able to make money off of modding if they are good.
Farvahar wrote: Yes, people should give back and not "leech" but not all of us can mod, and there is no reason to exclude millions of people from a community when they can contribute by:

1) donating, right now it isn't as easy as it should be
2) play testing
3) posting remarks, screen shots, or videos to share the mod or improve it
4) becoming modders, which many do after being "leechers" at first
5) adding to the user base to increase add revenue, that isn't to be sneezed at

If 10,000,000 people play a game, and 1% of 1% create mods worth playing, that is 1,000 mods worth playing. Those are good numbers.

If 1% contribute in another way, that is 100,000 people, again good numbers.

You increase that ratio by community building efforts, not by negativity.
sunshinenbrick wrote: I would never deny anyone making a living out of something they are good at and which brings value to others (assuming Beth allowed it).

What many long-term "authors" and "users" (or should we just say modders) alike have been arguing for is proper rights and protection for those who wish get into it. So they are not sold into developmental slavery and then when they make a mod it gets stolen, rehashed, sold and then pirated all over the internet. This is what happened. Bethesda offered a very poor deal that lured people with the possibility of quick cash gains... not forgetting that Beth and Val pocketed most of that money, for work they completed 4 years ago. That to me seems exploitative.
shaithlis wrote: By: LP1
"So if you are a mod user, you can tell yourself that you are just as important to this community as a mod author. But you're not. "

It's this kind of comment here that did it for me. I know that I'm just a user. I don't mod for this game. I donated to my favorite mods this past payday. But after reading the above comment. I am through. I don't want to be part of a site that encourages that type of, for lack of a better word, racism, toward the users. Yes, with out authors, there would be no mods, but without users, there would be no use for authors.

My opinion, hate and flame if you want to, but thanks to idiots like LP1, I'm done with this forum.
LP1 wrote: And you will be missed by exactly no one. No one will even notice. That is my point.

Users simply are not as important as the creators of mods. Mod creators can choose to make them or not, and soon they will again be able to choose whether they charge for them or not.
sunshinenbrick wrote: May I point out that people will also have the choice to buy them or not.

I would love to see a McDonald's advert say: "You are unfit, overweight and we would be better off if you all just pissed off!"

I'm lovin' it
WightMage wrote: Wrong. Someone will miss them, because its a tragedy that he's leaving because of people with your attitude.

Meanwhile, no one will miss *you*, because all you've contributed is to make the Nexus a more negative place to be in.

People want to remember tragedies. People try to forget those who caused them.
sunshinenbrick wrote: "What's done is done.

I need you cool...

...Are you cool?

I'm cool."

-Reservoir Dogs-
Yes, sunshine, as I said before, if a mod author chooses to attach a price tag to their work, I have the choice to buy it or not. It's called economic freedom. Voting with dollars. Everyone has that choice to buy or not. So why are you so upset at the idea of mod creators having a choice to charge or not? Like I said before, we don't have to like everyone's economic decisions. We don't have to agree with or support them. But they have a right to make them. Demanding otherwise is the very definition of entitlement.

Not everyone has the choice to buy or not as many people struggle to get by or have to beg and hope for food just to keep alive. Voting with dollars is a very totalitarian way of seeing things, but we are all entitled to our opinions and views. I for one would like to share the future with others as opposed to slapping it in a happy meal and then trying to sell it with a side of fries for a piece of paper that has no real value outside of a corrupt banking system.

Purely my feelings on things. Thanks.

This same reasoning could easily support the opposite view: some mod authors are not well off at all. Some don't have the choice to work for hours on something for free, but would gladly work for hours with the option to sell their work. Lack of resources can affect both sides. We already saw some modders come out of retirement at the prospect of being paid. That's just economic reality, as you describe above. Food costs money. Again, it's about choice.

May 2, 2015

In response to post #24871339. #24886114, #24887249, #24887719, #24888359, #24889504, #24889659, #24890009, #24890154, #24890484, #24890884, #24891049, #24891434, #24891459, #24892539, #24892854, #24893109, #24893609, #24894184 are all replies on the same post.

phantompally76 wrote: There will be no sweeping the past couple of weeks under the rug. Too much has happened; too much as been said. Too many true colors have been shown.

This controversy has exposed a rift that has existed between mod authors and mod users for years. The nature of the relationship between those entities has changed forever. Mutual trust, appreciation and respect are gone. Mod authors used this controversy as an excuse to lash out at mod users for not being appreciative enough (with their wallets) over the years, and for not supporting the monetization of amateur modding. And mod users used it as an excuse to lash out at mod authors who don't recognize mod users as being an equally important factor in the modding community, and for trivializing users' thankfulness and gratitude or authors' efforts because it wasn't in the form of a check.

No, this tale is not complete, and in the end, no one "won" anything. We lost some really good mod authors. On the other hand, we lost some really arrogant, selfish and belligerent mod authors as well. We also lost several dedicated and appreciative mod users, and yes, we lost some unrepentant sociopaths who weren't here to argue for any cause, but instead to foment strife and ill will.

But what did we gain? New blood? New modders to replace the old? I'm not so sure that anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 4 years and has never played Skyrim is going to pick it up as a result of this fiasco. Will mod users who have never even tried to make a mod before step up and replace the casualties? In a toxic environment where mod users are lashing out at the most trivial issues with mods, and mod authors are lashing out at the most trivial criticisms, would any sane individual want to get involved in this community? I guess we'll find out.

My own personal modding habits are definitely changing. Moving forward, I won't be using any mods that are dependent upon SkyUI (not only because they were going to charge for the latest version, but because of the arrogant, taunting, condescending manner in which SkyUI's devs addressed the entire community; proponents AND opponents of paid modding alike), so there goes 90+% of the mods out there. And that's ok. I was getting really fed up with script-intensive mods causing save bloat and CTDs anyway. And today I remembered that I only ever used SkyUI because I was compelled to, and that I actually preferred the vanilla menus all along.

So moving forward, my modding is probably going to be restricted to texture replacers, and that's ok, too. It will be nice to not have to worry about whether a mod is going to glitch the game or make it unplayable. I've actually been having fun the past day or two loading up on mods that replace SMIM; mods I would have otherwise never even looked for, and that might finally get their fair shake in the spotlight. That, at least, may be ONE positive that comes out of this ordeal.

Brasscatcher wrote: Unfortunate, but very very true, man. I just rushed my last save to endgame because I plan on flushing the deck. I will not say that I didn't enjoy seeing the artistry or the contributions made by some of the mods I used on this run; as a narrative-oriented player, one of the things I enjoy about modding a game is how we each can alter the narrative for each other's experience of the game...but I'm definitely going to have to reassess my posture on a few things going forward.

GrimCreation wrote: I'd be inclined to agree with some of your points in regards to all lashing out on all sides which took place in this paid mod mess, though I do find your take a bit extreme for my tastes.
Further more I do believe you're generalizing a bit too much then what I'd think would be reasonably fair. The community is huge both in regards to mod creators and users.
Is it really fair to lump bulk of each respective group into the 2 major fighting sides?
Also just because this event was horrible train wreck doesn't mean future will be so grim. People can learn from their mistakes and make good efforts not to repeat them.

However you are entitled to your own views and as fairly rational person I shall respect that even if I don't agree with all of it.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I feel a little self-conscious linking my own post but it is part of discussion that is blooming here, one that we must not forget. Some here have read parts of this thread before and I promise this will be my last reference to it as I feel I have taken it as far as I can really.

From the Topic: 'Is the word "user" negative?

My final post:

Thanks for the responses! I would have to agree there never can be anything wrong with the word "user" as word in its own right, and maybe all this simply has not been an issue that has entered people's minds till now, as the boat had not yet been rocked.

My justification for asking the question in the first place, which has garnered a few views since this happened, was from the incisive approach that the, shall we say far right and far left, seemed to take on the many issues, with a strong sense of immediate "us vs. them" mentality. I (and maybe a few others) would like to try and understand these issues and allow others to contribute to the discussion. This is not the conclusive chapter, as it seems common sense that when the next wave of potential changes come, a number of the 9 million people from BOTH "camps" may, in the heat of the moment, feel misrepresented or unappreciated and therefore feel threatened and lash out, like ANY HUMAN would.

Interestingly on the subject of self worth, I tried to donate to a member yesterday for what I thought was a commendable effort in helping the community. The member said, but I have no mods of my own, and was genuinely shocked at the idea of why someone would want to donate to them.

I just wanted to throw the doors open as to why exactly we all are here, as for me it is most certainly not just about downloading mods, yet I also, most certainly, do not fall in to the mod "author" camp. As a Graphic Designer/Lecturer, and an aspiring, experimental "modder", troubleshooter, and veteran game emulation enthusiast, I feel I fall somewhere in the middle of all this, as do perhaps the vast majority of people I have had the pleasure to become acquainted with over the years.

I only hope for everyone's own sake we can find a cohesion so we can all exist together and not take each other for granted. Ok, its cliche, but 'united we stand, divided we fall'

Thanks for reading.

SNB

Link to discussion, please add your opinions:

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

WightMage wrote: I'm afraid that while I understand your actions, they are a bit extreme for my taste. The us versus them mentality comes from users of all sides, and I believe we do no one favors for "scorching the earth." In the case of SMIM and SkyUI for instancw, it is worth noting that Brumbek and Schlangster respectfully are trying to make amends with the community- Brumbek is re-releasing his mod and left said apology on the mod description page, and Schlangster of SkyUI has stated that he "is not a sore loser" and will release SkyUI 5.0 here after the next SKSE update.

Certainly they were in error earlier in the conflict, but does it not mean anything that they're trying to work with us instead of casting us off, like others already have? And what so we gain from spitting upon their apologies like that?

It is everyone's own decision and right to make their mods compatible with theirs or not, but I don't think we will really fix our community until we can forgive those who ask for forgiveness. And I may suffer from foot in mouth somewhere down the line but, come on man. The only ones holding back the Nexus' growth is us. Few things are inevitable if people are just willing to try.

LP1 wrote: Mods would exist and be shared even if there weren't mod users (users who don't do any modding themselves). That's how the community started. On the other hand, mods would not exist without mod authors. A significant chunk of mods would not exist if it weren't for a single team of mod authors: the SkyUI team. All MCM-driven mods have them to thank.

So if you are a mod user, you can tell yourself that you are just as important to this community as a mod author. But you're not.

Tyerial12 wrote: and mod authors would have nothing to share with or make money without the users so yeah.. When people release mods they do it for fun and to get reconized as a mod author so tit for tat

LP1 wrote: Modders would share with other modders. Again, that's how the community started. Leeches contribute nothing. They are not important to the community. They are important to this site, and this site will treat them well, because this site is ad-supported. Leeches == revenue. And, yes, some mod authors do seek recognition. But mostly from other mod authors. And just as many couldn't care less. Leeches are totally unnecessary to modding. Mod authors are absolutely essential. So, no, there is not equal footing. Users who think they should have an equal say and don't see that as rampant entitlement are just fooling themselves.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ LP1

While I see what you are saying (I think) it is true that the number of people who consume everything and give NOTHING back are not the vast majority of people.

I do a lot of modding on my games, from armors to textures, a little bit of scripting, custom plugins and ENB configurations, but I unfortunately have a business (so I can have money to donate to modders) and a family (who I have to save some of my money to look after). This means I do not have the time to commit myself to release anything I would feel able to support enough to warrant charging for it, I am an amateur. I also take copyright very seriously and therefore do not feel like I should be benefiting from many many years of hard work and passion.

While we do have the less knowledgeable newer generations who do unfortunately (not always intentionally) see the world as "theirs for the taking", there are equally people who have come into the scene, do a re-texture and speak as if they had created SkyUI or Falksaar.

My point is that we all started out not knowing anything and we build our knowledge up over time, some more quickly as they may be young and learning coding at school, others slower because it is a hobby outside their day to day commitment of being a part of a complex society.

Speaking of society and "community" perhaps we should take the responsibility to teach and help the people who may not know any better, rather than just putting people into two camps of "useful" and "useless".

Tyerial12 wrote: i do not agree at all as sharing with other modders would also make the modder a user aswell. as if there was no users the population would drop and so would your endorsements and the sites population

but i will not argue with the blind. Its true mod authors are important but so is the users aswell. you guys want money for your efforts but think users are not important? good luck selling your stuff then

see ya

Farvahar wrote: To follow up on your statements on down-scaling the ambitiousness of modding in order to avoid save game bloat and other performance issues:

I deleted Skyrim from my machine in protest of Valve/ZeniMax shenanigans. When the dust settled, I reloaded it in order to try the game first from a vanilla standpoint, and then to load select mods with some donations to each mod author that I want to support.

I find the vanilla game to be absolutely acceptable, and it runs quicker, loads faster, and saves within a second or so. There are things that can be improved, and things that can be added, but I will do so in a more controlled fashion than my first couple of years as a mod user.

I actually think this ordeal can give Skyrim modding a second wind, but the pressure will be on with GTA V and Witcher 3 as well as Fallout 4.

LP1 wrote: Modders have businesses and families, too. And yet they contribute anyway. No one has the right to tell them they can't attach a price tag to something if that's what they choose, unless it it's Beth. Because it's Beth IP. Angry mob or not, time moves on and paid modding will eventually come to TES. Users don't get to make that choice for modders. Some mod authors will always choose to give away their stuff for free. Others will chose to charge. It's the same as someone choosing to spend time at the business instead of making mods for the community. Everyone gets to make their own economic decisions, whether we all like them or agree with them or not. If someone decides to attach a price tag to their work, I can choose to pay it or not pay it. I can't choose to force them not to be able to charge to begin with. At least not without feeling like a terrible person. Youtubers make money off of modding if they are good. The Nexus makes money off of modding because it is good. Modders should be able to make money off of modding if they are good.

Farvahar wrote: Yes, people should give back and not "leech" but not all of us can mod, and there is no reason to exclude millions of people from a community when they can contribute by:

1) donating, right now it isn't as easy as it should be
2) play testing
3) posting remarks, screen shots, or videos to share the mod or improve it
4) becoming modders, which many do after being "leechers" at first
5) adding to the user base to increase add revenue, that isn't to be sneezed at

If 10,000,000 people play a game, and 1% of 1% create mods worth playing, that is 1,000 mods worth playing. Those are good numbers.

If 1% contribute in another way, that is 100,000 people, again good numbers.

You increase that ratio by community building efforts, not by negativity.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I would never deny anyone making a living out of something they are good at and which brings value to others (assuming Beth allowed it).

What many long-term "authors" and "users" (or should we just say modders) alike have been arguing for is proper rights and protection for those who wish get into it. So they are not sold into developmental slavery and then when they make a mod it gets stolen, rehashed, sold and then pirated all over the internet. This is what happened. Bethesda offered a very poor deal that lured people with the possibility of quick cash gains... not forgetting that Beth and Val pocketed most of that money, for work they completed 4 years ago. That to me seems exploitative.

shaithlis wrote: By: LP1
"So if you are a mod user, you can tell yourself that you are just as important to this community as a mod author. But you're not. "

It's this kind of comment here that did it for me. I know that I'm just a user. I don't mod for this game. I donated to my favorite mods this past payday. But after reading the above comment. I am through. I don't want to be part of a site that encourages that type of, for lack of a better word, racism, toward the users. Yes, with out authors, there would be no mods, but without users, there would be no use for authors.

My opinion, hate and flame if you want to, but thanks to idiots like LP1, I'm done with this forum.

LP1 wrote: And you will be missed by exactly no one. No one will even notice. That is my point.

Users simply are not as important as the creators of mods. Mod creators can choose to make them or not, and soon they will again be able to choose whether they charge for them or not.

sunshinenbrick wrote: May I point out that people will also have the choice to buy them or not.

I would love to see a McDonald's advert say: "You are unfit, overweight and we would be better off if you all just pissed off!"

I'm lovin' it

WightMage wrote: Wrong. Someone will miss them, because its a tragedy that he's leaving because of people with your attitude.

Meanwhile, no one will miss *you*, because all you've contributed is to make the Nexus a more negative place to be in.

People want to remember tragedies. People try to forget those who caused them.

sunshinenbrick wrote: "What's done is done.

I need you cool...

...Are you cool?

I'm cool."

-Reservoir Dogs-

Yes, sunshine, as I said before, if a mod author chooses to attach a price tag to their work, I have the choice to buy it or not. It's called economic freedom. Voting with dollars. Everyone has that choice to buy or not. So why are you so upset at the idea of mod creators having a choice to charge or not? Like I said before, we don't have to like everyone's economic decisions. We don't have to agree with or support them. But they have a right to make them. Demanding otherwise is the very definition of entitlement.

May 2, 2015

In response to post #24871339. #24886114, #24887249, #24887719, #24888359, #24889504, #24889659, #24890009, #24890154, #24890484, #24890884, #24891049, #24891434, #24891459, #24892539 are all replies on the same post.

phantompally76 wrote: There will be no sweeping the past couple of weeks under the rug. Too much has happened; too much as been said. Too many true colors have been shown.

This controversy has exposed a rift that has existed between mod authors and mod users for years. The nature of the relationship between those entities has changed forever. Mutual trust, appreciation and respect are gone. Mod authors used this controversy as an excuse to lash out at mod users for not being appreciative enough (with their wallets) over the years, and for not supporting the monetization of amateur modding. And mod users used it as an excuse to lash out at mod authors who don't recognize mod users as being an equally important factor in the modding community, and for trivializing users' thankfulness and gratitude or authors' efforts because it wasn't in the form of a check.

No, this tale is not complete, and in the end, no one "won" anything. We lost some really good mod authors. On the other hand, we lost some really arrogant, selfish and belligerent mod authors as well. We also lost several dedicated and appreciative mod users, and yes, we lost some unrepentant sociopaths who weren't here to argue for any cause, but instead to foment strife and ill will.

But what did we gain? New blood? New modders to replace the old? I'm not so sure that anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 4 years and has never played Skyrim is going to pick it up as a result of this fiasco. Will mod users who have never even tried to make a mod before step up and replace the casualties? In a toxic environment where mod users are lashing out at the most trivial issues with mods, and mod authors are lashing out at the most trivial criticisms, would any sane individual want to get involved in this community? I guess we'll find out.

My own personal modding habits are definitely changing. Moving forward, I won't be using any mods that are dependent upon SkyUI (not only because they were going to charge for the latest version, but because of the arrogant, taunting, condescending manner in which SkyUI's devs addressed the entire community; proponents AND opponents of paid modding alike), so there goes 90+% of the mods out there. And that's ok. I was getting really fed up with script-intensive mods causing save bloat and CTDs anyway. And today I remembered that I only ever used SkyUI because I was compelled to, and that I actually preferred the vanilla menus all along.

So moving forward, my modding is probably going to be restricted to texture replacers, and that's ok, too. It will be nice to not have to worry about whether a mod is going to glitch the game or make it unplayable. I've actually been having fun the past day or two loading up on mods that replace SMIM; mods I would have otherwise never even looked for, and that might finally get their fair shake in the spotlight. That, at least, may be ONE positive that comes out of this ordeal.

Brasscatcher wrote: Unfortunate, but very very true, man. I just rushed my last save to endgame because I plan on flushing the deck. I will not say that I didn't enjoy seeing the artistry or the contributions made by some of the mods I used on this run; as a narrative-oriented player, one of the things I enjoy about modding a game is how we each can alter the narrative for each other's experience of the game...but I'm definitely going to have to reassess my posture on a few things going forward.

GrimCreation wrote: I'd be inclined to agree with some of your points in regards to all lashing out on all sides which took place in this paid mod mess, though I do find your take a bit extreme for my tastes.
Further more I do believe you're generalizing a bit too much then what I'd think would be reasonably fair. The community is huge both in regards to mod creators and users.
Is it really fair to lump bulk of each respective group into the 2 major fighting sides?
Also just because this event was horrible train wreck doesn't mean future will be so grim. People can learn from their mistakes and make good efforts not to repeat them.

However you are entitled to your own views and as fairly rational person I shall respect that even if I don't agree with all of it.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I feel a little self-conscious linking my own post but it is part of discussion that is blooming here, one that we must not forget. Some here have read parts of this thread before and I promise this will be my last reference to it as I feel I have taken it as far as I can really.

From the Topic: 'Is the word "user" negative?

My final post:

Thanks for the responses! I would have to agree there never can be anything wrong with the word "user" as word in its own right, and maybe all this simply has not been an issue that has entered people's minds till now, as the boat had not yet been rocked.

My justification for asking the question in the first place, which has garnered a few views since this happened, was from the incisive approach that the, shall we say far right and far left, seemed to take on the many issues, with a strong sense of immediate "us vs. them" mentality. I (and maybe a few others) would like to try and understand these issues and allow others to contribute to the discussion. This is not the conclusive chapter, as it seems common sense that when the next wave of potential changes come, a number of the 9 million people from BOTH "camps" may, in the heat of the moment, feel misrepresented or unappreciated and therefore feel threatened and lash out, like ANY HUMAN would.

Interestingly on the subject of self worth, I tried to donate to a member yesterday for what I thought was a commendable effort in helping the community. The member said, but I have no mods of my own, and was genuinely shocked at the idea of why someone would want to donate to them.

I just wanted to throw the doors open as to why exactly we all are here, as for me it is most certainly not just about downloading mods, yet I also, most certainly, do not fall in to the mod "author" camp. As a Graphic Designer/Lecturer, and an aspiring, experimental "modder", troubleshooter, and veteran game emulation enthusiast, I feel I fall somewhere in the middle of all this, as do perhaps the vast majority of people I have had the pleasure to become acquainted with over the years.

I only hope for everyone's own sake we can find a cohesion so we can all exist together and not take each other for granted. Ok, its cliche, but 'united we stand, divided we fall'

Thanks for reading.

SNB

Link to discussion, please add your opinions:

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

WightMage wrote: I'm afraid that while I understand your actions, they are a bit extreme for my taste. The us versus them mentality comes from users of all sides, and I believe we do no one favors for "scorching the earth." In the case of SMIM and SkyUI for instancw, it is worth noting that Brumbek and Schlangster respectfully are trying to make amends with the community- Brumbek is re-releasing his mod and left said apology on the mod description page, and Schlangster of SkyUI has stated that he "is not a sore loser" and will release SkyUI 5.0 here after the next SKSE update.

Certainly they were in error earlier in the conflict, but does it not mean anything that they're trying to work with us instead of casting us off, like others already have? And what so we gain from spitting upon their apologies like that?

It is everyone's own decision and right to make their mods compatible with theirs or not, but I don't think we will really fix our community until we can forgive those who ask for forgiveness. And I may suffer from foot in mouth somewhere down the line but, come on man. The only ones holding back the Nexus' growth is us. Few things are inevitable if people are just willing to try.

LP1 wrote: Mods would exist and be shared even if there weren't mod users (users who don't do any modding themselves). That's how the community started. On the other hand, mods would not exist without mod authors. A significant chunk of mods would not exist if it weren't for a single team of mod authors: the SkyUI team. All MCM-driven mods have them to thank.

So if you are a mod user, you can tell yourself that you are just as important to this community as a mod author. But you're not.

Tyerial12 wrote: and mod authors would have nothing to share with or make money without the users so yeah.. When people release mods they do it for fun and to get reconized as a mod author so tit for tat

LP1 wrote: Modders would share with other modders. Again, that's how the community started. Leeches contribute nothing. They are not important to the community. They are important to this site, and this site will treat them well, because this site is ad-supported. Leeches == revenue. And, yes, some mod authors do seek recognition. But mostly from other mod authors. And just as many couldn't care less. Leeches are totally unnecessary to modding. Mod authors are absolutely essential. So, no, there is not equal footing. Users who think they should have an equal say and don't see that as rampant entitlement are just fooling themselves.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ LP1

While I see what you are saying (I think) it is true that the number of people who consume everything and give NOTHING back are not the vast majority of people.

I do a lot of modding on my games, from armors to textures, a little bit of scripting, custom plugins and ENB configurations, but I unfortunately have a business (so I can have money to donate to modders) and a family (who I have to save some of my money to look after). This means I do not have the time to commit myself to release anything I would feel able to support enough to warrant charging for it, I am an amateur. I also take copyright very seriously and therefore do not feel like I should be benefiting from many many years of hard work and passion.

While we do have the less knowledgeable newer generations who do unfortunately (not always intentionally) see the world as "theirs for the taking", there are equally people who have come into the scene, do a re-texture and speak as if they had created SkyUI or Falksaar.

My point is that we all started out not knowing anything and we build our knowledge up over time, some more quickly as they may be young and learning coding at school, others slower because it is a hobby outside their day to day commitment of being a part of a complex society.

Speaking of society and "community" perhaps we should take the responsibility to teach and help the people who may not know any better, rather than just putting people into two camps of "useful" and "useless".

Tyerial12 wrote: i do not agree at all as sharing with other modders would also make the modder a user aswell. as if there was no users the population would drop and so would your endorsements and the sites population

but i will not argue with the blind. Its true mod authors are important but so is the users aswell. you guys want money for your efforts but think users are not important? good luck selling your stuff then

see ya

Farvahar wrote: To follow up on your statements on down-scaling the ambitiousness of modding in order to avoid save game bloat and other performance issues:

I deleted Skyrim from my machine in protest of Valve/ZeniMax shenanigans. When the dust settled, I reloaded it in order to try the game first from a vanilla standpoint, and then to load select mods with some donations to each mod author that I want to support.

I find the vanilla game to be absolutely acceptable, and it runs quicker, loads faster, and saves within a second or so. There are things that can be improved, and things that can be added, but I will do so in a more controlled fashion than my first couple of years as a mod user.

I actually think this ordeal can give Skyrim modding a second wind, but the pressure will be on with GTA V and Witcher 3 as well as Fallout 4.

LP1 wrote: Modders have businesses and families, too. And yet they contribute anyway. No one has the right to tell them they can't attach a price tag to something if that's what they choose, unless it it's Beth. Because it's Beth IP. Angry mob or not, time moves on and paid modding will eventually come to TES. Users don't get to make that choice for modders. Some mod authors will always choose to give away their stuff for free. Others will chose to charge. It's the same as someone choosing to spend time at the business instead of making mods for the community. Everyone gets to make their own economic decisions, whether we all like them or agree with them or not. If someone decides to attach a price tag to their work, I can choose to pay it or not pay it. I can't choose to force them not to be able to charge to begin with. At least not without feeling like a terrible person. Youtubers make money off of modding if they are good. The Nexus makes money off of modding because it is good. Modders should be able to make money off of modding if they are good.

Farvahar wrote: Yes, people should give back and not "leech" but not all of us can mod, and there is no reason to exclude millions of people from a community when they can contribute by:

1) donating, right now it isn't as easy as it should be
2) play testing
3) posting remarks, screen shots, or videos to share the mod or improve it
4) becoming modders, which many do after being "leechers" at first
5) adding to the user base to increase add revenue, that isn't to be sneezed at

If 10,000,000 people play a game, and 1% of 1% create mods worth playing, that is 1,000 mods worth playing. Those are good numbers.

If 1% contribute in another way, that is 100,000 people, again good numbers.

You increase that ratio by community building efforts, not by negativity.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I would never deny anyone making a living out of something they are good at and which brings value to others (assuming Beth allowed it).

What many long-term "authors" and "users" (or should we just say modders) alike have been arguing for is proper rights and protection for those who wish get into it. So they are not sold into developmental slavery and then when they make a mod it gets stolen, rehashed, sold and then pirated all over the internet. This is what happened. Bethesda offered a very poor deal that lured people with the possibility of quick cash gains... not forgetting that Beth and Val pocketed most of that money, for work they completed 4 years ago. That to me seems exploitative.

shaithlis wrote: By: LP1
"So if you are a mod user, you can tell yourself that you are just as important to this community as a mod author. But you're not. "

It's this kind of comment here that did it for me. I know that I'm just a user. I don't mod for this game. I donated to my favorite mods this past payday. But after reading the above comment. I am through. I don't want to be part of a site that encourages that type of, for lack of a better word, racism, toward the users. Yes, with out authors, there would be no mods, but without users, there would be no use for authors.

My opinion, hate and flame if you want to, but thanks to idiots like LP1, I'm done with this forum.

And you will be missed by exactly no one. No one will even notice. That is my point.

Users simply are not as important as the creators of mods. Mod creators can choose to make them or not, and soon they will again be able to choose whether they charge for them or not.

May 2, 2015

In response to post #24871339. #24886114, #24887249, #24887719, #24888359, #24889504, #24889659, #24890009, #24890154, #24890484, #24890884 are all replies on the same post.

phantompally76 wrote: There will be no sweeping the past couple of weeks under the rug. Too much has happened; too much as been said. Too many true colors have been shown.

This controversy has exposed a rift that has existed between mod authors and mod users for years. The nature of the relationship between those entities has changed forever. Mutual trust, appreciation and respect are gone. Mod authors used this controversy as an excuse to lash out at mod users for not being appreciative enough (with their wallets) over the years, and for not supporting the monetization of amateur modding. And mod users used it as an excuse to lash out at mod authors who don't recognize mod users as being an equally important factor in the modding community, and for trivializing users' thankfulness and gratitude or authors' efforts because it wasn't in the form of a check.

No, this tale is not complete, and in the end, no one "won" anything. We lost some really good mod authors. On the other hand, we lost some really arrogant, selfish and belligerent mod authors as well. We also lost several dedicated and appreciative mod users, and yes, we lost some unrepentant sociopaths who weren't here to argue for any cause, but instead to foment strife and ill will.

But what did we gain? New blood? New modders to replace the old? I'm not so sure that anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 4 years and has never played Skyrim is going to pick it up as a result of this fiasco. Will mod users who have never even tried to make a mod before step up and replace the casualties? In a toxic environment where mod users are lashing out at the most trivial issues with mods, and mod authors are lashing out at the most trivial criticisms, would any sane individual want to get involved in this community? I guess we'll find out.

My own personal modding habits are definitely changing. Moving forward, I won't be using any mods that are dependent upon SkyUI (not only because they were going to charge for the latest version, but because of the arrogant, taunting, condescending manner in which SkyUI's devs addressed the entire community; proponents AND opponents of paid modding alike), so there goes 90+% of the mods out there. And that's ok. I was getting really fed up with script-intensive mods causing save bloat and CTDs anyway. And today I remembered that I only ever used SkyUI because I was compelled to, and that I actually preferred the vanilla menus all along.

So moving forward, my modding is probably going to be restricted to texture replacers, and that's ok, too. It will be nice to not have to worry about whether a mod is going to glitch the game or make it unplayable. I've actually been having fun the past day or two loading up on mods that replace SMIM; mods I would have otherwise never even looked for, and that might finally get their fair shake in the spotlight. That, at least, may be ONE positive that comes out of this ordeal.

Brasscatcher wrote: Unfortunate, but very very true, man. I just rushed my last save to endgame because I plan on flushing the deck. I will not say that I didn't enjoy seeing the artistry or the contributions made by some of the mods I used on this run; as a narrative-oriented player, one of the things I enjoy about modding a game is how we each can alter the narrative for each other's experience of the game...but I'm definitely going to have to reassess my posture on a few things going forward.

GrimCreation wrote: I'd be inclined to agree with some of your points in regards to all lashing out on all sides which took place in this paid mod mess, though I do find your take a bit extreme for my tastes.
Further more I do believe you're generalizing a bit too much then what I'd think would be reasonably fair. The community is huge both in regards to mod creators and users.
Is it really fair to lump bulk of each respective group into the 2 major fighting sides?
Also just because this event was horrible train wreck doesn't mean future will be so grim. People can learn from their mistakes and make good efforts not to repeat them.

However you are entitled to your own views and as fairly rational person I shall respect that even if I don't agree with all of it.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I feel a little self-conscious linking my own post but it is part of discussion that is blooming here, one that we must not forget. Some here have read parts of this thread before and I promise this will be my last reference to it as I feel I have taken it as far as I can really.

From the Topic: 'Is the word "user" negative?

My final post:

Thanks for the responses! I would have to agree there never can be anything wrong with the word "user" as word in its own right, and maybe all this simply has not been an issue that has entered people's minds till now, as the boat had not yet been rocked.

My justification for asking the question in the first place, which has garnered a few views since this happened, was from the incisive approach that the, shall we say far right and far left, seemed to take on the many issues, with a strong sense of immediate "us vs. them" mentality. I (and maybe a few others) would like to try and understand these issues and allow others to contribute to the discussion. This is not the conclusive chapter, as it seems common sense that when the next wave of potential changes come, a number of the 9 million people from BOTH "camps" may, in the heat of the moment, feel misrepresented or unappreciated and therefore feel threatened and lash out, like ANY HUMAN would.

Interestingly on the subject of self worth, I tried to donate to a member yesterday for what I thought was a commendable effort in helping the community. The member said, but I have no mods of my own, and was genuinely shocked at the idea of why someone would want to donate to them.

I just wanted to throw the doors open as to why exactly we all are here, as for me it is most certainly not just about downloading mods, yet I also, most certainly, do not fall in to the mod "author" camp. As a Graphic Designer/Lecturer, and an aspiring, experimental "modder", troubleshooter, and veteran game emulation enthusiast, I feel I fall somewhere in the middle of all this, as do perhaps the vast majority of people I have had the pleasure to become acquainted with over the years.

I only hope for everyone's own sake we can find a cohesion so we can all exist together and not take each other for granted. Ok, its cliche, but 'united we stand, divided we fall'

Thanks for reading.

SNB

Link to discussion, please add your opinions:

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

WightMage wrote: I'm afraid that while I understand your actions, they are a bit extreme for my taste. The us versus them mentality comes from users of all sides, and I believe we do no one favors for "scorching the earth." In the case of SMIM and SkyUI for instancw, it is worth noting that Brumbek and Schlangster respectfully are trying to make amends with the community- Brumbek is re-releasing his mod and left said apology on the mod description page, and Schlangster of SkyUI has stated that he "is not a sore loser" and will release SkyUI 5.0 here after the next SKSE update.

Certainly they were in error earlier in the conflict, but does it not mean anything that they're trying to work with us instead of casting us off, like others already have? And what so we gain from spitting upon their apologies like that?

It is everyone's own decision and right to make their mods compatible with theirs or not, but I don't think we will really fix our community until we can forgive those who ask for forgiveness. And I may suffer from foot in mouth somewhere down the line but, come on man. The only ones holding back the Nexus' growth is us. Few things are inevitable if people are just willing to try.

LP1 wrote: Mods would exist and be shared even if there weren't mod users (users who don't do any modding themselves). That's how the community started. On the other hand, mods would not exist without mod authors. A significant chunk of mods would not exist if it weren't for a single team of mod authors: the SkyUI team. All MCM-driven mods have them to thank.

So if you are a mod user, you can tell yourself that you are just as important to this community as a mod author. But you're not.

Tyerial12 wrote: and mod authors would have nothing to share with or make money without the users so yeah.. When people release mods they do it for fun and to get reconized as a mod author so tit for tat

LP1 wrote: Modders would share with other modders. Again, that's how the community started. Leeches contribute nothing. They are not important to the community. They are important to this site, and this site will treat them well, because this site is ad-supported. Leeches == revenue. And, yes, some mod authors do seek recognition. But mostly from other mod authors. And just as many couldn't care less. Leeches are totally unnecessary to modding. Mod authors are absolutely essential. So, no, there is not equal footing. Users who think they should have an equal say and don't see that as rampant entitlement are just fooling themselves.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ LP1

While I see what you are saying (I think) it is true that the number of people who consume everything and give NOTHING back are not the vast majority of people.

I do a lot of modding on my games, from armors to textures, a little bit of scripting, custom plugins and ENB configurations, but I unfortunately have a business (so I can have money to donate to modders) and a family (who I have to save some of my money to look after). This means I do not have the time to commit myself to release anything I would feel able to support enough to warrant charging for it, I am an amateur. I also take copyright very seriously and therefore do not feel like I should be benefiting from many many years of hard work and passion.

While we do have the less knowledgeable newer generations who do unfortunately (not always intentionally) see the world as "theirs for the taking", there are equally people who have come into the scene, do a re-texture and speak as if they had created SkyUI or Falksaar.

My point is that we all started out not knowing anything and we build our knowledge up over time, some more quickly as they may be young and learning coding at school, others slower because it is a hobby outside their day to day commitment of being a part of a complex society.

Speaking of society and "community" perhaps we should take the responsibility to teach and help the people who may not know any better, rather than just putting people into two camps of "useful" and "useless".

Tyerial12 wrote: i do not agree at all as sharing with other modders would also make the modder a user aswell. as if there was no users the population would drop and so would your endorsements and the sites population

but i will not argue with the blind. Its true mod authors are important but so is the users aswell. you guys want money for your efforts but think users are not important? good luck selling your stuff then

see ya

Farvahar wrote: To follow up on your statements on down-scaling the ambitiousness of modding in order to avoid save game bloat and other performance issues:

I deleted Skyrim from my machine in protest of Valve/ZeniMax shenanigans. When the dust settled, I reloaded it in order to try the game first from a vanilla standpoint, and then to load select mods with some donations to each mod author that I want to support.

I find the vanilla game to be absolutely acceptable, and it runs quicker, loads faster, and saves within a second or so. There are things that can be improved, and things that can be added, but I will do so in a more controlled fashion than my first couple of years as a mod user.

I actually think this ordeal can give Skyrim modding a second wind, but the pressure will be on with GTA V and Witcher 3 as well as Fallout 4.

Modders have businesses and families, too. And yet they contribute anyway. No one has the right to tell them they can't attach a price tag to something if that's what they choose, unless it it's Beth. Because it's Beth IP. Angry mob or not, time moves on and paid modding will eventually come to TES. Users don't get to make that choice for modders. Some mod authors will always choose to give away their stuff for free. Others will chose to charge. It's the same as someone choosing to spend time at the business instead of making mods for the community. Everyone gets to make their own economic decisions, whether we all like them or agree with them or not. If someone decides to attach a price tag to their work, I can choose to pay it or not pay it. I can't choose to force them not to be able to charge to begin with. At least not without feeling like a terrible person. Youtubers make money off of modding if they are good. The Nexus makes money off of modding because it is good. Modders should be able to make money off of modding if they are good.

May 2, 2015

In response to post #24871339. #24886114, #24887249, #24887719, #24888359, #24889504, #24889659 are all replies on the same post.

phantompally76 wrote: There will be no sweeping the past couple of weeks under the rug. Too much has happened; too much as been said. Too many true colors have been shown.

This controversy has exposed a rift that has existed between mod authors and mod users for years. The nature of the relationship between those entities has changed forever. Mutual trust, appreciation and respect are gone. Mod authors used this controversy as an excuse to lash out at mod users for not being appreciative enough (with their wallets) over the years, and for not supporting the monetization of amateur modding. And mod users used it as an excuse to lash out at mod authors who don't recognize mod users as being an equally important factor in the modding community, and for trivializing users' thankfulness and gratitude or authors' efforts because it wasn't in the form of a check.

No, this tale is not complete, and in the end, no one "won" anything. We lost some really good mod authors. On the other hand, we lost some really arrogant, selfish and belligerent mod authors as well. We also lost several dedicated and appreciative mod users, and yes, we lost some unrepentant sociopaths who weren't here to argue for any cause, but instead to foment strife and ill will.

But what did we gain? New blood? New modders to replace the old? I'm not so sure that anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 4 years and has never played Skyrim is going to pick it up as a result of this fiasco. Will mod users who have never even tried to make a mod before step up and replace the casualties? In a toxic environment where mod users are lashing out at the most trivial issues with mods, and mod authors are lashing out at the most trivial criticisms, would any sane individual want to get involved in this community? I guess we'll find out.

My own personal modding habits are definitely changing. Moving forward, I won't be using any mods that are dependent upon SkyUI (not only because they were going to charge for the latest version, but because of the arrogant, taunting, condescending manner in which SkyUI's devs addressed the entire community; proponents AND opponents of paid modding alike), so there goes 90+% of the mods out there. And that's ok. I was getting really fed up with script-intensive mods causing save bloat and CTDs anyway. And today I remembered that I only ever used SkyUI because I was compelled to, and that I actually preferred the vanilla menus all along.

So moving forward, my modding is probably going to be restricted to texture replacers, and that's ok, too. It will be nice to not have to worry about whether a mod is going to glitch the game or make it unplayable. I've actually been having fun the past day or two loading up on mods that replace SMIM; mods I would have otherwise never even looked for, and that might finally get their fair shake in the spotlight. That, at least, may be ONE positive that comes out of this ordeal.

Brasscatcher wrote: Unfortunate, but very very true, man. I just rushed my last save to endgame because I plan on flushing the deck. I will not say that I didn't enjoy seeing the artistry or the contributions made by some of the mods I used on this run; as a narrative-oriented player, one of the things I enjoy about modding a game is how we each can alter the narrative for each other's experience of the game...but I'm definitely going to have to reassess my posture on a few things going forward.

GrimCreation wrote: I'd be inclined to agree with some of your points in regards to all lashing out on all sides which took place in this paid mod mess, though I do find your take a bit extreme for my tastes.
Further more I do believe you're generalizing a bit too much then what I'd think would be reasonably fair. The community is huge both in regards to mod creators and users.
Is it really fair to lump bulk of each respective group into the 2 major fighting sides?
Also just because this event was horrible train wreck doesn't mean future will be so grim. People can learn from their mistakes and make good efforts not to repeat them.

However you are entitled to your own views and as fairly rational person I shall respect that even if I don't agree with all of it.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I feel a little self-conscious linking my own post but it is part of discussion that is blooming here, one that we must not forget. Some here have read parts of this thread before and I promise this will be my last reference to it as I feel I have taken it as far as I can really.

From the Topic: 'Is the word "user" negative?

My final post:

Thanks for the responses! I would have to agree there never can be anything wrong with the word "user" as word in its own right, and maybe all this simply has not been an issue that has entered people's minds till now, as the boat had not yet been rocked.

My justification for asking the question in the first place, which has garnered a few views since this happened, was from the incisive approach that the, shall we say far right and far left, seemed to take on the many issues, with a strong sense of immediate "us vs. them" mentality. I (and maybe a few others) would like to try and understand these issues and allow others to contribute to the discussion. This is not the conclusive chapter, as it seems common sense that when the next wave of potential changes come, a number of the 9 million people from BOTH "camps" may, in the heat of the moment, feel misrepresented or unappreciated and therefore feel threatened and lash out, like ANY HUMAN would.

Interestingly on the subject of self worth, I tried to donate to a member yesterday for what I thought was a commendable effort in helping the community. The member said, but I have no mods of my own, and was genuinely shocked at the idea of why someone would want to donate to them.

I just wanted to throw the doors open as to why exactly we all are here, as for me it is most certainly not just about downloading mods, yet I also, most certainly, do not fall in to the mod "author" camp. As a Graphic Designer/Lecturer, and an aspiring, experimental "modder", troubleshooter, and veteran game emulation enthusiast, I feel I fall somewhere in the middle of all this, as do perhaps the vast majority of people I have had the pleasure to become acquainted with over the years.

I only hope for everyone's own sake we can find a cohesion so we can all exist together and not take each other for granted. Ok, its cliche, but 'united we stand, divided we fall'

Thanks for reading.

SNB

Link to discussion, please add your opinions:

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/2810229-is-the-word-user-negative/

WightMage wrote: I'm afraid that while I understand your actions, they are a bit extreme for my taste. The us versus them mentality comes from users of all sides, and I believe we do no one favors for "scorching the earth." In the case of SMIM and SkyUI for instancw, it is worth noting that Brumbek and Schlangster respectfully are trying to make amends with the community- Brumbek is re-releasing his mod and left said apology on the mod description page, and Schlangster of SkyUI has stated that he "is not a sore loser" and will release SkyUI 5.0 here after the next SKSE update.

Certainly they were in error earlier in the conflict, but does it not mean anything that they're trying to work with us instead of casting us off, like others already have? And what so we gain from spitting upon their apologies like that?

It is everyone's own decision and right to make their mods compatible with theirs or not, but I don't think we will really fix our community until we can forgive those who ask for forgiveness. And I may suffer from foot in mouth somewhere down the line but, come on man. The only ones holding back the Nexus' growth is us. Few things are inevitable if people are just willing to try.

LP1 wrote: Mods would exist and be shared even if there weren't mod users (users who don't do any modding themselves). That's how the community started. On the other hand, mods would not exist without mod authors. A significant chunk of mods would not exist if it weren't for a single team of mod authors: the SkyUI team. All MCM-driven mods have them to thank.

So if you are a mod user, you can tell yourself that you are just as important to this community as a mod author. But you're not.

Tyerial12 wrote: and mod authors would have nothing to share with or make money without the users so yeah.. When people release mods they do it for fun and to get reconized as a mod author so tit for tat

Modders would share with other modders. Again, that's how the community started. Leeches contribute nothing. They are not important to the community. They are important to this site, and this site will treat them well, because this site is ad-supported. Leeches == revenue. And, yes, some mod authors do seek recognition. But mostly from other mod authors. And just as many couldn't care less. Leeches are totally unnecessary to modding. Mod authors are absolutely essential. So, no, there is not equal footing. Users who think they should have an equal say and don't see that as rampant entitlement are just fooling themselves.

May 2, 2015

In response to post #24871504. #24871889, #24872029, #24872299, #24872914, #24873159, #24873254, #24873374, #24873424, #24873614, #24873674, #24873684, #24875884, #24876184, #24876264, #24877939, #24878114, #24878249 are all replies on the same post.

darkslayer666 wrote: Dark0ne:

Forgive my ignorance on this topic but; Why doesn't Nexus help the modders more?

As it stands endorsements don't really do anything, other than boost ego. I'd like some Nexus revenue to go to modders... 1000 endorsements for $100?

I don't know, like I said, how much does Nexus generate income, but with it's size I'd wager quite a lot since there's a big traffic here. I mean you got the dough for managers but not for your $$$ generators? Priorities man.

Perhaps increase ad's on Nexus to support modders? People will also be more inclined to endorse.

I personally think Nexus doesn't take care of their modders much at all, and I don't agree with some of your choices. I know Nexus is a business and it's survival is your priority but no modders = no Nexus.

Relying on donations solely while taking 100% of revenue is not going to last forever as you've seen from Steam. And you also asked the modders to put nexus as a provider(which is about 5% of revenue) I mean... I bet they scratched their heads asking when did Nexus give them 5%.

I can write more, but as I've said, I'm not much knowledgeable on this subject and would like the communities help on this. I feel like Nexus isn't much better in my eyes.

If my post is offensive so be it.. good bye, but I feel like too many people aren't questioning this as well.

blackasm wrote: Very well put, as it stands the nexus gets money you could say directly from the effort of modders, as well as you tube mod reviewers, bethesda really only gets hype/publicity through modders. Typically mod authors that generate revenue from their own site would lose out being part of the nexus. I have said it a number of times earlier, but it is a classic case of talented people undervaluing themselves.

groupthinker1984 wrote: We aren't questioning it because we know the service being provided here. Free hosting of a vast repository of mods for a growing number of games alongside a free client/mod manager that is regularly updated.

You don't have to pay to host and you don't have to pay to download. The people who are paying do so to support nexusmods, not the modders. If we want our money to go to the modders, we will donate to them.

Please don't speak for us when you aren't even one of us.

Hevymettle wrote: You seem pretty opinionated despite announcing yourself that you had much ignorance on the topic. First and foremost I think it is important that you know that Valve offered this site 5% of their profit if Nexus was listed by the modder as being an aid to them. It was 100% voluntary of of the modder and initiated by Valve, so blaming this site or Dark0ne makes no sense at all.

Second, this site was founded on being a hub for modders to do what they like and to have it reach out to an audience. No one was forced to do it and they were even supplied with a program that makes it infinitely easier for people to mod their games. Attacking him as "not caring" about modders or taking advantage of them for not paying is pretty ludicrous. He is paying out the butt just to run this site. Have you even looked at the figures it takes to keep this thing going?

Your initial idea was pretty good but it sounds better when you leave out every possible thing that he would have to take into consideration. How easily would the system be abused? (people would find a way to get fake endorsements in the first week, I guarantee it). What happens if the modders start making too much money and the site is losing money offering it to them? Everything here runs the way it was created for and the people that utilize the site have done so for a reason.

It isn't a bad idea but you shouldn't over simplify it and then attack someone when you have questionable knowledge on the topic at best. That is especially distasteful when you are responding to a post that he is making about making changes to help modders make money.

macintroll wrote: I was asking on the other topic, why a system like youtube could not be added to the nexus ?.
Like here ads pay the bills. That's why we have a free service.

On youtube you can subscribe to adsense, then showing ads within your videos. Clicks and views giving back some money to each youtubber.

Simply adding ads on the mod page, which earnings goes to the modder, can be a way to give some retribution to some good mods with high pages view stats. (9M pages view for SkyUI)

Of course with this system only good high rated mods will generate some money
but neither nexus or any end user have to pay a cent to the "content provider".

Lamproly wrote: If I understand you right, macintroll, I don't think a system like that would leave grateful users. The ads in videos are - again - a huge turn-off and I only don't notice them because of adblock. And that's the reason why I turn off adblock on the nexus site, because the ads there aren't distracting or annoying me as much and I can still browse the site freely.

thefinn wrote: I think you guys are completely over-guessing what the nexus makes out of running this whole system.

As far as the 5% being paid to nexus, for all we know some completely overpaid high-priced lawyer realised there was some kind of infringement possibility in this and paying the nexus SOMETHING could alleviate that, but who knows?

Perhaps they really wanted to give something back to the community - although my cynical self just kind of laughs at that idea.

macintroll wrote: Quote "I think you guys are completely over-guessing what the nexus makes out of running this whole system."
Only servers costs for Nexus are $500.000 / year as stated Dark0ne some time ago.
Where do you think the money to pay this comes from ?

darkslayer666 wrote: @Hevymettle

Likewise my friend. You seem like you know the statistics of Nexus's income I take it?

I am not attacking Nexus, I am critiquing on the way Nexus is handling the situation. I am proposing ways on how we can keep modders from leaving, even at the expense of users by increasing ads for instance. I never said any of my ideas are soundproof. That is why I asked for communities opinion, and not be barraged.

Perhaps I should of with-held my opinion on how I feel, but it's true, Nexus doesn't support the modders one bit as far as my knowledge goes, and giving them tools is like saying a cab-driver should buy his own cab because hey... You say Nexus is trying to help but how? Certainly not out of Nexus's pockets, which I think it should since they bring in the income in the first place.

And on the point of "free-hub".. oh please, it's like saying non-profit organizations aren't profiting. Once again, I care less who's profiting, I am simply raising awareness that if Nexus can waste money on one thing but not the other is a little weird to me.

But once again, feel free to pick anything apart I'm an open book :).

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Why doesn't Nexus do more to help mod authors? Dark0ne has been hosting this site for many years. He's spent countless hours on it, and a countless amount of his own money on something that is basically a labor of love. The amount of traffic this site handles is no small feat, and no small amount of money. Dark0ne has given this resource to mod authors for free to host their files, and you want him to do even more? smh

macintroll wrote: @Lamproly
Well i just see this as a way to keep free mods, and modders here. Ads make the internet free currently, anywhere, everywhere else without ads, you pay to access the contents (or to remove the ads)

Paid modding is coming what ever you think now, Valve&Bethesda missed the point starting with Skyrim but for sure the next games without an existing user base currently will have paid mods (FO4?)
It's a trend and more games companies find this as a new good way to make money.

Everyone should also read this by moddb :
http://www.moddb.com/news/the-uncertain-future-of-paid-mods

LP1 wrote: I think this is a fair point and something that Robin is probably already thinking about. The fact is that for many years several people have actually been able to monetize modding. Youtubers, the Nexus... The only people who have been forbidden from making money off of modding were the mod authors themselves. A model like youtube with ad revenue sharing would be interesting. Any attempt at a model would be interesting. The Nexus does provide a wonderful service, and Robin runs it about as well as could be expected. It's an extremely challenging job. But the Nexus is most decidedly NOT a non-profit entity. I think that is why Robin has been as balanced as he has been in all of this. I think he truly believes in the spirit of open source. On the other hand, he is a big TES fan who has managed to turn his love of mods into a livelihood. Do modders not have the same right to try to do that? It is a complicated situation.

thefinn wrote: I take your point, but I cannot see any real feasible way for the Nexus to put a "share driven" kind of dollar amount on mods, can you ?

Like I understand the modder is the one person not getting paid in this system, but I don't see a way to change that. By the same logic, should Gopher be giving kickbacks to modders for the money he makes off Youtube?

I just don't see how that'd work.

sunshinenbrick wrote: You cannot pay for mods, you can only pay for modding. No money for modding can go through Nexus. This is the short version.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: What Sunshine said. Not to mention the Nexus is run at a loss. It's a labor of love, and all that "ad revenue" goes toward the upkeep and running of the site, and it still doesn't cover it all. Nobody is secretly getting rich off of the work of mod authors.

WightMage wrote: ...which frankly, was the largest (and most BS) conspiracy theory to wreck through the Nexus community over the past week.

@Hevymettle pretty much stated anything I had to contribute to this thread. The Dark0ne does contribute greatly to modders, whether it seems overt or not, and frankly there are few things more aggravating than being accused of not "doing enough."

treota wrote: The existence of this website IS directly supporting modders is it not?

sunshinenbrick wrote: That is why I will fight for its survival.

As far as I know, no one ever said the Nexus is run at a loss. Where are you getting that? The Nexus has released some cost figures, but not revenue. It almost certainly makes a tidy profit.

And I think the site-runners should be able to profit from the site. Maintaining it is a lot of work. But why not mod authors, too? That door has been opened now, and it's never going to be completely shut again.

Pevey

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Help! What is CKM file?q

File bug reporting system and image uploading updates

File bug reporting system and image uploading updates

Nexus Taboo?

Problem with Music Mods

Initially Disabling Items With Scripts

Vanilla script Properties fill, non-vanilla script Properties do not...

New self-made Perks and Perk Overhauls

Tearing my hair out... trying to create a formlist[] array and AddForm() isn't working

Vanilla script Properties fill, non-vanilla script Properties do not...

File bug reporting system and image uploading updates

File bug reporting system and image uploading updates

File bug reporting system and image uploading updates

Creating a simple MCM menu?

Every file stops downloading or is corrupt

NPC Script Help?

Bored? Want to collaborate on a mod?

Finding Files in the CK

File bug reporting system and image uploading updates

Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

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