MosAnted

It was more than that in Fo3. Lyons chapter was also open and working with the locals as a force for rebuilding society, whereas the main chapter's mandate was to horde all tech to protect society from technology. Lyons approach was a lot more sustainable and practical. Which I thought was rather ironic. The BoS traditionalists became the Outcasts while the "official" local chapter under Lyons had, in fact, gone rogue. Instead of the traditionalists being labeled Outcasts, it should have been Lyons and his followers being labeled Renegades. Just as a last post and to conclude the off-topicn-ness, The way things were going by the end of FO3/FNV, it's very likely Lyons' "rogue" chapter will have become the only one by FO4 due to the "Hardcore" BoS going the way of the Dodo.

The Legion in the Fallout is the opposite of the Empire in the Elder Scrolls series. The NCR symbol is a bear because they are the New California Republic, borrowing the California State Flag as a banner. And the choice of using the NCR wasn't even up to Bethesda. It was introduced by Interplay back in Fallout 2. What Bethesda did in FNV was just a natural progression of such a political entity. Let's not Forget FNV was Obsidian, not Bethesda's, writing. For which Bethesda was the Publisher, and therefore had editorial control. That is, expansion of thematic elements needed to be kept "within the lines" of the game universe that had already been established. Yes but my point being- The thematic elements referred -NCR and Caesar's Legion- were still being used in more or less the same roles they were introduced in originally in Fallout 2 and Van Buren, something Bethesda obviously was ok with keeping, compared to, say, the changes in the Brotherhood of Steel between FO2 and FO3. So I don't think we can really read much into that as far as the topic of the discussion is concerned.

The Legion in the Fallout is the opposite of the Empire in the Elder Scrolls series. The NCR symbol is a bear because they are the New California Republic, borrowing the California State Flag as a banner. And the choice of using the NCR wasn't even up to Bethesda. It was introduced by Interplay back in Fallout 2. What Bethesda did in FNV was just a natural progression of such a political entity. Let's not Forget FNV was Obsidian, not Bethesda's, writing.

Not to mention it being the Mythic Dawn... I mean if it had been the Dark Brotherhood I'd have understood... but the MD? I remember that Titus I knew where their true loyalty laid (ie Dragonborn) and he didnt fully trust them which is why he created the Penitus Oculatus.

That is not strictly true. He was made a general by the King of Falkreath because of that and defeated the Reachmen in that king's service (and interesting side note that at the time there were Kings rather than Jarls, and Falkreath had a large enough army to have a position of 'general), but then assassinated his king and took over. He got the rest of Skyrim as well as Cyrodiil on side simultaneously much later at the Battle of Sancre Tor, where he tricked the enemy forces into leaving their fortress and snuck his troops into the fortress via the back door, the promptly used the defensive power of the fortress to give him the advantage to defeat his enemies. They were so impressed the Skyrim generals signed on. The High Rock (Breton) leadership was executed and the Breton troops sold into slavery or imprisoned... maybe this is where the 'Nords only' mentality came from? http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Sancre_Tor_(Book) It is also worth noting that Talos means 'Stormcrown' so it is hard to consider 'Stormcloak' to be an insult. Furthermore, Ulfric isn't Dragonborn, and treats THE Dragonborn as a lackey. He promotes the DB but certainly doesn't consider them an equal, let alone a superior even after the DB defeats Alduin and/or Miraak and/or saves Tamriel from vampires that have been in Skyrim since before Talos, yet strangely seem not to be a concern for Ulfric or the Empire.... Edit: moreover, Skyrim didn't suddenly say 'the deal is off' during the Oblivion Crisis when the last Septim was believed dead, nor at the end when the last Septim *was* dead. Ulfric never once uses the death of the Septim line as justification either. Furthermore, Skyrim was the first province to back Titus Mede I's claim as emperor after the Interregnum, despite the knowledge he was *not* a Dragonborn.

I keep seeing people comparing Germany between wars to the Empire, when critizimg the latter for not being ready for war 20-some years after the Great War. Heres a couple of things you're failing to take into accounr: 1-INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION! Germany, even after War reparations, was still the most industrialized country in Europe. On the flip side, The Empire (and Tamriel's states for that matter) are stuck in "medieval stasis": they're still largely agrarian, feudal societies. Their production output, both in goods and population, cant be compared to a industrialized european power. 2-THE WAR WAS FOUGHT IN IMPERIAL LAND! Germany surrendered before Entente forces managed to penetrate into its territory. Why did the US come out on top as a World Superpower after WW2? Because it wasnt fought on its land! The Us didnt have to deal with rebuilding infrastructure and population like the european powers did. The Empire not only suffered crippling military casualties during the Great War, they've also had to deal with the aftereffects of the Thalmor raping and pillaging the cities and farmlands. While bo sources directly mention it, I wouldnt be surprised if the Empire experienced famine shortly after the war.

Much of the perception is skewed by the scaling that Bethesda was working under. Like the towns and villages, there is only ONE graphic for a character where there should be tens, hundreds, thousands of people. Comparing to Vietnam, a sweep of an area looking for opponents would have at a minimum involved at least one company = 100-120 men. The same kind of sweep/patrol that we see being done by just 4 Imperial soldiers. The battles at Whiterun and Solitude would have involved thousands/tens of thousands of soldiers, on BOTH sides. But in total, both sides combined, we see less than 100 soldiers. So, with that kind of scaling going on, I can see that there were "significant" numbers present. Tullius does mention he's mostly recruiting locally and is not getting any reinforcements from Cyrodiil since the vast majority of Legion assets are tied up in the AD Border. So The 4th Legion (The one fighting the Civil War) Is mostly comprised of local recruits with Imperial leadership (and breton, dunmer, nord and even altmer legates).

That's a shame. I've been following this thread for a while now and I enjoy the fresh perspective your posts (from a strategic POV) have brought to the discussion.

The Nexus link is for the reduced version. He (and I) are looking for a link for a download of the patch for the non-reduced version, as the link on PES is dead.

I'm just about to begin a playthrough of oblivion and about to install FCOM when I found this... looked interesting at first but I don't really care for the "hardcore realism" bent, not my thing. And since there are a lot of changes/settings I don't care about and no instructions on how to disable/remove them, I think I'll pass.