WaltC

I can't advise anyone who wants to mod to buy through the Microsoft store. I tried it--once, with The Outer Worlds. First I rented the game through the Microsoft store and discovered I could not mod the game, and that even an edit would render the associated save unplayable--you'd have to start over. So, I thought maybe that sort of copy protection was understandable for a rental--figured I'd do much better with a purchased copy--so I bought the game outright for $44.95, IIRC. I was dumbfounded when I discovered that as far as copy-protection there was *no difference* at all between the $1 rented version and the full-price version--my God, it was festooned with copy-protection the likes of which I had never seen--and that's going back to old floppy-disk copy protection schemes. This game was trussed up tighter than a nun in a strip joint...;) No kidding, but when I explained to Microsoft I wanted a copy I could mod or else I wanted a full refund, Microsoft was nice enough to refund my money, no questions asked! Got it all back, bought the Epic store version which had no copy protection and was fully moddable from the start--and I paid only $34.95 at the EGS, so I got the game for $10 less than Microsoft wanted to charge me for a copy I couldn't mod! No contest. Only wish I'd bought from the EGS first and saved myself so much trouble. Rental games?--I understand Microsoft's restrictions--but for full retail pop? No--I understand nothing of Microsoft's restrictions. They aren't rational. Who wants to pay full price for a copy of a game so wrapped up in copy protection that it cannot be modded? Not I. I don't know if things have changed as of now, but this is the way they stood as of December 2019, immediately after the release of The Outer Worlds--sure hope it's different now!

In response to post #44315415. Yes, Skyrim is the penultimate poster boy for modding computer games.... It's hard to believe how much better the original Skyrim looks and plays with the 70+ mods I use that all seem to work together without a problem! I'll be delighted when modding comes together for SE, though--should be able to do much more with it...! As you discovered, SKSE is a must! But right now? I can't believe how much more striking my original Skyrim is than the SE version--even with the few mods available for it at the moment. My original Skyrim looks so much better, in fact, that it's like another game entirely! It's easy to forget how homely the base game is... I've been at gaming & computers (no consoles here!) beginning with the Amiga in 1986--so that makes, let's see--30 years! Gaaa... I'm old!...:D And I haven't lost my passion for computer gaming yet! (It's great in retirement! Keeps me sane!) Seriously, you are as young as you feel, and a youthful attitude of curiosity and discovery will keep you young long after you start being able to hear your friend's arteries as they harden while you talk to them!.. Some of my friends are so old...and *stiff*, I guess is the right word! So hang in there--the world is your Oyster! Stick with it because it is worth sticking to! I'm not sure what the "Director of Content" actually does at Nexus, but I enjoyed your article and look forward to hearing more from you!

I have to say that I find the notion of people seeking patrons for their computer work very medieval...;) Back in Shakespeare's day patrons were sought to "support the arts" and I have no problem with the concept today. People are free to do what they like with their own money. But I would agree wholeheartedly that you keep the Nexus out of all of that--that goes far afield of what you've done so wonderfully with here, imo. You'd risk getting embroiled with lawyers--and, frankly, nothing is worth the stench that often results from such undesirable contact. Let them chase their ambulances elsewhere--I agree! Game modding I see is much like amateur sports: if they find out you are a "pro" or have ever been a "pro" they kick you out of the amateur leagues...;) I of course suggest nothing so regimented for game modding & modders, but it seems to me there exists a real danger of forgetting the amateur spirit of modding--it never has been a professional vocation. OTOH, it may well serve to get someone into a more professional position relative to game creation, and that's a reward in itself. I also completely agree with the propriety of the system the way it is in that modders are allowed to ask for donations without making promises or jumping into implied contracts--that is a much better place for the Nexus to be in as well as for the modder himself, imo. I think you are doing things right as the Nexus has as much interest in keeping its audience happy as it does in keeping its modders happy. If modders want more then they should make their own arrangements with these patron services--because that's not what the Nexus is, is it? A "patron service," I mean.

I weigh in rarely, but this issue I find interesting enough. To introduce organized, centralized pay/donation schemes into a grand & fantastic modding house like the Nexus is to invite crass commercialism to enter the scene and it won't be long, I fear, before it has consumed the Nexus entirely--making it a caricature of what it is presently. The very worst thing that might happen to the Nexus is the development of the general concept that the Nexus is primarily interested in money with game modding being used only as a tool to cynically achieve that end. (Like Al Gore and his man-made global warming doom preaching, etc.) When and if the Nexus should one day be more about nickel & diming than about mods that will be the beginning of its end, imo. I do not personally believe that will happen because I think Dark One and pals have far too much sense to ever let things devolve that far! (Otherwise they'd never have come as far as they have!) But the point I want to make is that this is a slippery slope, without a doubt. Innocent & logical intentions have a tendency to snowball over time and can wind up the diametric opposite of the original intent. I think the only possible avenue for remuneration here is voluntary, and a low-key voluntary at that. My choice would be that all mod creators who wish to do so, humbly ask for voluntary donations from the people who think the software is worth paying for, and they ask them in a text file that accompanies their mod. That's it. (Along the shareware modes of operation, etc.) The notion of the Nexus itself advertising what mods are for sale and by whom is certainly among the wrong-headed approaches that are possible. The Nexus is about Mods--not about wholesaling goods & services, etc. I won't delve into yet-another-definition of modding, because all of us know exactly what it is. My advice for the people who'd like to do it professionally and attempt to make a living out of its simple: form a company of your own (one person can incorporate his own business) and throw up a commercial web site and start selling your mods and see if your plan is viable. Or, if you're a talented modder who wants to be paid for his time but doesn't want to have to manage a business at the same time, then you should apply to established game developers that are hiring people with your skill sets. Or, again, if you have the money and know-how, you might start your own game development house, etc. Meanwhile, the Nexus, a site that is of, by, and for game modding, will go on to live long and prosper, as it will remain a haven for modding as opposed to finance...!...;)

sunshinenbrick, it's nice that you donated to someone. Me personally, I've only ever received 1 donation despite 1000+ endorsements. By no means did I get into modding for the $, but I am just proving the point that donations systems earnings don't equal the time you put in. I have 2,000 hours logged on the creation kit. The option to host paid mods could have really made a difference to someone like me. By no means would every mod cost $ either, but the larger ones could. We could have tried to renegotiate the price split, but now the system is gone forever. I've put thousands of hours into playing games and writing about them in various forums over the past few decades; does that entitle me to a paycheck of some kind? No, it doesn't--not at all. If modding has become more of a chore for you than "fun" (remember that word?), then: What's stopping you from incorporating and setting up your own mod site and selling your mods? Nothing, as far as I can see. So if you want to be a one-man show (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that) then that's your option if you want to turn your fun into profits. But I think the real issue here is that some people were of a mind that somehow the Steam Workshop would make them millionaires for very little effort on their part--and they could care less about the fact that they'd be getting 25-cents on the dollar for every dollar Valve took in, and sure, they'd accept that because "millions of people" frequent Steam and that means $$$. I guess that what I'm saying is that if you want to transition from "fun" to business then everything in your modding life is going to change, drastically. There'll be no more of “I'll try and fix it when I can.” That will change to people demanding you do thus and such because they “paid” for your mod—you might even find yourself on the receiving end of a class-action lawsuit if you aren't careful. You'll have to really watch every single word you say about your mods—any promises you make, etc. IE, the people who paid $4 for your mod (out of which you get $1 from Valve) will think that they own you, lock, stock, and barrel. Food for thought...word to the wise, etc.

Good call by Valve and Bethesda--it takes a "big man" to admit when he's wrong (pun intended.) But, good call, Gabe...;) I believe Valve when they say they didn't think this through. They couldn't have given this much thought at all and "engaged mouth before putting brain in gear," etc. As I mentioned in my first opinion about all of this a few days ago, modders who feel right about it have never hesitated to ask for voluntary contributions and I know of quite a few who have gotten them--and a lot more than the 25% of a set, fixed price from the Workshop would have gained them. But beyond that, so-called full-time modders good enough to make a living need to be employed by the game developers somewhere, not doing nickle & dime work in an amateur status. Modding is much like amateur sports. In the amateur leagues it is wholly against the rules to be paid for your performance, because pro pay is considered to corrupt amateur sports of all kinds (like college football)--and is even illegal, at least by league rules if by no other. More than anything, modding should be *fun*--and if we start monetizing every two-bit texture it's going to kill the fun in modding--and in gaming--pretty quick. And who wants the idiot mobile-phone idea of "gaming"? IMO, for the folks who don't find modding fun and rewarding anymore in an atmosphere of free give and take--well, probably you need to be thinking about something a little-bit less fun and a little more like "work" if that is where you think your head is. Anyway, these little bumps in the road don't matter as long as we get there, right?

I am already in the habit of not using Steam Workshop because of the horrible, simply horrible requirement of having whatever mods I have *updating* every time I fire up the Steam game! At the point I signed out of the Workshop years ago, it was taking me a good five to ten minutes to boot Skyrim and I saw no end in sight! I got out as fast as I could. (And quickly discovered the wonders of the Nexus and how compatible NMM was with my Steam games--letting me update when I wanted, if I wanted.) I don't know if that policy has changed since, but it's certainly an example of the kinds of decisions Valve makes about the community that put the Valve customer in last place at times. I think the Nexus stands as an exemplary mod site and is therefore attracting a great deal of attention across the Internet. Mods, in the pure sense of the word, are *supposed to be* fun to make and fun to play. That's why game developers (the more enlightened among them) put modding tools into games in the first place--it's just good business for the developer because it stimulates game sales. Often a game rises or falls depending on how amenable it is to modding. The pay-off for modding tools is that the developer and publisher sell more copies of a given game--sometimes a lot more--and that is the right & proper pay off for modding-friendly developers and publishers, imo. I wouldn't discourage mod authors from charging for their mods if they choose, but I would ask them to think it through a bit. Would you really want to share your mod(s)--not just the theoretical proceeds, but also the legal right to the IP--with both Valve & Bethesda, or Valve & the developer of your game? Would you really want to share your proceeds and share your IP for 25% of the proceeds, while Valve and Developer X get 75%...? I think without a doubt you'd be better off simply *asking* for a contribution or donation in the documentation for your mod, should you think such a contribution is warranted. That way, should users of the mod find they'd like to contribute--you still "own" the whole thing and you'd get 100% of everything that is donated. While it's certainly true that the voluntary contribution system won't net you anywhere close to 100% of the people who download the mod and find value in it, it's also true that you could well wind up with considerably more money than you might ever net from the current Valve enticement deal of 25% (of what? $1?) Also, many more people are apt to download your mod if the entry fee is $0 and your mod is available from a variety of sources--which in itself means *more* contributions are likely to be coming your way. If you're tempted to think that asking for contributions won't work, I'd ask you to think about Kickstarter. When a project is proposed that the audience finds attractive it is not uncommon at all for the project to raise a *multiple* of the amount it originally asked for! When you ask for a contribution you aren't putting a limit on what people can give you should they be really impressed with your work, and you get all of it! Simply put, taking the Steam route severely restricts your freedom in many ways as a mod creator, imo. Every coin has two sides, and this new Steam "coin" should be carefully and thoughtfully examined before a mod author decides to pocket it. While it's true that one should never look a gift horse in the mouth, it's equally true that one should beware of strangers bearing gifts...;) The Nexus is such a great site that I find it completely unsurprising that Valve would be wondering how to match its success with mods, and that Valve might reach the conclusion that the Workshop might be able to hog all the talented mod creators by offering them a venue from which to get paid for their modding work. I'm not convinced that Valve has really thought all of this through, but I have no doubt that the many talented mod creators I see featured in the Nexus surely will.

In response to post #16759139. I have as much, if not more fun modding the game as I do playing it...;) Easily, tinkering with the mods is half the fun for me...;) I'm still somewhat in awe of how much the right mods improve the game visually (and otherwise) over the vanilla.

Sounds like good news all around...! It also reminds me of when I first signed up for Nexus--far back in the mists of antiquity. All I can remember is that I had been doing a Google for files pertaining to some game or other--I honestly cannot remember which one--and I found a forum in which someone suggested I try the "Nexus" (whatever *that* was as it was new to me) and provided a link. To download the file or files that I wanted I recall having to "sign up," of course, and that went fine and I downloaded what I needed--but I also seem to recall ( it *is* hazy) never getting a confirmation email or anything else that let me know that I was indeed "registered," etc. A few months later I went back to the site for files relating to another game (the name of which I also cannot recall), and I was amazed that my original log-in ( I have personal algorithms for passwords that I use to keep things simple and *memorable*) still worked! And, it's worked ever since...! You might get a kick out of this anecdote--I think this is funny--in the beginning, when the Nexus was an acorn compared to the towering oak it has become, I thought the guys running the site were *Japanese or Korean*--for some unearthly reason...! Lol! I think it was because as the site was mostly text in those days (IIRC), and I read some of the mod install instructions that were written in Pidgin English (by mod authors of obviously differing nationalities to my own US location--but they could speak/write English far better than I could speak their native tongues!)--I had this mental image of small-ish, very fast moving "Asians" running the Nexus site and doing everything--at super-speed...! The idea never bothered me in the least, but looking back on that time I really have to laugh at myself and some of my half-baked perceptions...;) Anyway, I see all of this as The Price of Doing Business--or more accurately in the case of Nexus--The Price of Providing a Public Service freely available to an International audience. What makes a difference is the way that these situations are handled. Some companies and groups think that the less said and the more covered up, the better. Other companies prefer treating their audience as adults and going the informative, full-disclosure route. Thanks again for always treating me like an adult! It's refreshing in these days of folks moaning and crying about not having their hands held enough. Forewarned is forearmed, so thanks again for the heads up...;)

These things will happen from time to time--reminds me of how many years ago my son once quite unintentionally (eh? of course...;)) sent me an email with nice little worm attached--it was one of those robot replicators that made headlines nationally back then. My A/V program at the time (that was when Norton's still worked pretty well in that department) caught the thing and squashed it immediately, but when I contacted my son about it and he checked he was royally infested--had to do a bottom-up format:c & reinstall exercise (ah, the joys of the old days!) You guys were on top of things very quickly and squashed it like I squashed that worm so many years ago! Good Job! Can't ask for any better response than that. Yea, the guys with deeper access to the system need to be doubly vigilant against infection on their ends--it can sometimes come from the most unlikely of sources, the devil of it is! Were you guys able to isolate it to the extent that you could make some good guesses about what it was supposed to do? Think it was just a garden variety "replicate endlessly, everywhere" type of vermin, or maybe something a bit more target specific? The former variety would be a lot more common, certainly. Again, great job! Thanks for the heads up!

Just thought I'd say that I *always* "download manually"...;) It's so easy to do I've never thought about doing it another way...! Thanks again for a great group of sites!

I'd be disappointed if NMM was *not* in a perpetual beta, considering the scope of what you want to do and how determined you are to get there. It's difficult to believe that you might be "chastised" for something as silly as not slapping a "stable release" sticker on what you know to be constantly developing software. I can see no good reason for doing that until the software reaches the point at which *you* are satisfied with its stability and you consider it to be 95% feature complete, etc. Common sense. Wanted to add that your point about the game-developer chipping in makes perfect sense. I would think any game-developer creating modifiable games would jump on your bandwagon to whatever extent he can. By helping Nexus he does little but help himself at the same time. I think this is a viable route for you to pursue.

I rarely comment here, but this is one of those times when I think I have something worthwhile to say...;) Thanks so much to you and all of your cohorts there for whom these sites are obviously a passionate labor of love. Your blood, sweat, and tears, of course, is deeply appreciated by every person who uses this site--especially, the non-premium members, for whom the Nexus sites are much like Christmas every day of the week. And thanks to the premium members, too, who help to make your toiling fruitful and productive. Looking back to the first day I signed up with a Nexus site--a long time ago, so long ago I don't recall the game I was modding--back to that day when I was convinced that Nexus was run by some sort of clandestine Chinese shadow figure who no doubt was planning something nefarious for the world at large--a' la' Dr. No--all I have seen since is progress and the tangible results of the hard work you guys have been doing. Progress and nothing but progress. (And of course I was relieved that my sinister Chinese suspicions were *apparently* unfounded!.....?) Thanks for the hard work and these sites as it all is very impressive, and it's impossible to estimate the positive impact your sites have had on PC gaming in the last few years. Every single game developer worth his salt who makes modifiable games owes your sites much, and I hope that all of them are premium members as from their point of view a Nexus premium membership is more like an investment in the longevity and the support of their own products! I have no complaints and look forward to your no-doubt very bright future!

Although I've been using and enjoying Nexus as a mod resource for several years, I finally decided to take a look at your forums after reading your well-written and concise blog today! In reading through this thread, however, I was a bit surprised to see that your blog was written to address such august personages as "Anotherbogusaccount" and "lickedmysplit" (excuse any misspelling on my part, please)...;) You, sir, have the patience of Job! Without a doubt. Your efforts are obviously directed at adults, but these individuals seem little more than teenagers displaying prepubescent angst sprinkled liberally with the expected but irrational authority complex. These folks should be thrilled that you even deign to address them--I'm sure they are. Someday they'll mature to the point of being able to express that sentiment adequately, I'm sure. Right now, they seem squarely stuck in the thumb-in-the-mouth entitlement stage where all that exists in the world belongs to them and how dare anyone tell them what to do with it. Certainly, this is but a microscopic sample of what you must patiently endure each day in order to bring this terrific site to an adult community which is very appreciative--just possibly not very talkative about it. For games like Skyrim which I have nearly 200 hours in at the moment (and I'm probably at the low end of the scale among those who like the game), I cannot imagine enjoying it so much if not for the wonderful mods that I've been able to find and download from Nexus--NMM has overall been a joy to use and an unbelievably handy and useful tool. So, thanks again...for all that you and your fellow stalwarts provide for so many of us, and miraculously, for no expense on our parts! Mod makers are generally an excellent bunch of people and surprisingly enough I find them to be experts on the mods they create! As is evident to most, so much can be gained by simply listening to them. The one comment I remember reading that I thought was very amusing was the complaint about (paraphrased) "receiving snotty and immature responses from moderators." I thought that particularly funny, because when a person sends snotty and immature comments to a moderator, just what sort of comment is he expecting in return? He should be delighted that his comments earn any response at all, imo. Anyway, batten down the hatches, man the ramparts, and keep up the good work! Just wanted you to know how well-appreciated it is! Yours, WaltC

This site has been such a terrific utility for me--so much so that I am amazed that this is the only real problem I've seen from Nexus Skyrim since I started using it! With the traffic you guys have you are heartily commended for doing such a bang-up job. Thanks so much for helping to make Skyrim and several other of my games so much better! The service is invaluable.