Wolvenlight

In response to post #25019004. Good questions. While I'm by no means an authority on this stuff, it got me thinking. Considering the price of some of the mods on the paid workshop, I could see $5 being the price. Which is strange, I would have thought people would price their mods around $.50 to $2. Going from free to $5 with a mod that many other mods might rely on seems like a bad business move, if nothing else. (Though I can see why people might think the opposite.) Yes, they'll be pirated. Though it would be difficult if Valve made the mods somehow Steam reliant. I could picture that not going over well... or even working properly. It probably wouldn't happen, and piracy would probably be rampant if the prices weren't cheap or affordable or fair. Judging by the early access games having a reputation of abandoning their game once they make enough money, (not common but it happens,) I don't think there would be an obligation for modders to keep mods stable. Bethesda and Valve could certainly try to make this a requirement, but I doubt they'd do it, and I doubt it would stop some modders from dropping off the face of the internet.

In response to post #25007544. #25007814, #25014694, #25016689, #25019509 are all replies on the same post. Such accusation, very evidence.

In response to post #24966929. #24966984, #24967199, #24968504, #24969224, #24988424, #24989869, #24991699, #24996829, #25011074 are all replies on the same post. I'm glad you made this comment so that it showed your true self, gastovski.

In response to post #24997179. #24997739, #25000969, #25001074, #25002429, #25002999, #25003089, #25006504, #25010279, #25012879, #25020594 are all replies on the same post. Mr. Dave The percentage cut was one of the most mentioned issues the community had with the whole paid mods thing. So it was the problem, but not for the reasons many would think, which was OPs point. The modders who jumped on the pay bandwagon were a mix of people who either created unique assets or edited assets. Really, they had every right to edit game assets (as they were given that right by Bethesda, the creators of those assets.) Unless you're talking about modders taking assets from, say, immersive armors and putting them in their own mods, or creating their mod to be SKSE reliant and not giving proper credit and compensation. But that's a far cry from all of them. I do agree that paid modding can divide a community with greed. It tends to stifle innovation when people are so concerned about competition that open resources and tutorials go away.

In response to post #24829274. #24829504, #24829949, #24830164, #24830354, #24830424, #24830604, #24830714, #24830804, #24830944, #24831024, #24831029, #24831074, #24831139, #24831284, #24831344, #24831554, #24831694, #24831724, #24831809, #24832199, #24832334, #24832364, #24833474, #24833569 are all replies on the same post. I dunno Caladan, Ves has been nice to me so far. Granted, I don't agree with his points, and yeah, I've seen him lash out at others, but I think that has more to do with everyone lashing out at everyone. People like Phantompally on the other hand... Holy crap, that guy needed to calm down. Thankfully, he seems to have realized this as well. As for OP, you'll find all kinds. I'm a leech who was neutral, but I find myself siding with the pro-paid mods group more often than not. The only thing I don't like about paid mod systems is how I've heard that it messed up modding communities in other games, like the Sims.

In response to post #24832564. #24833079, #24833104, #24833179, #24833249, #24833549, #24833659, #24833844, #24834234, #24834574, #24834934, #24835054, #24835429 are all replies on the same post. Perhaps it might behoove people to look into the percentage's of writers vs publishers, or singers vs labels, or farmer's vs grocers before we automatically discredit the 25, 35, 40 split as unfair... Not all of these examples apply in exact terms, but it would give us a better understanding as to how money is split among all parties. I'd love it if mod author's got more, and personally I think Bethesda and Valve could have been a little more generous, but I can see why it was split the way it was.

In response to post #24816339. #24817409, #24817554 are all replies on the same post. I have read many of these threads. I still have yet to see that claim. The only people I see making it are the anti-paid side speaking in such a way they're putting words in the mouths of the paid mod authors themselves. (I've seen a lot of that as well.) Perhaps I've missed the few cases this is true, however, I have seen many, many paid mod authors pointing out the hatred and vitriol directed at them by the people they thought were part of a supportive modding community. I've seen many, many free mod consumers and free mod authors attacking the paid side with words like "you're a disease, entitled brats, we don't need you." No, what we don't need is that behavior. I don't care if you've modded or not, an attack is an attack no matter where it comes from. And perhaps it's true that some of the paid mod authors can't continue modding because they aren't paid. Perhaps being paid gave them the financial freedom to mod again where they could no longer find the time before. It's not an automatically nefarious claim. Now, I totally get the concern with taking assets that aren't yours and using them in your own mod. That happened a couple times and it shouldn't have, but that's such a small minority. I also get the whole piggybacking off of free work to make paid work concern. That said, that's true of anything. Using Java to make a paid game, using Open Office to write a book, using Blender to make paid clothing mods for the Sims. (That last one is one of the reasons I don't want a paid mod system for Elder Scrolls.) It's really up to the user agreements of the free resources and those using them for paid work to discuss themselves. Perhaps some of those resource providers would be fine with it, at least if paid modders had asked and worked out their terms. But regardless of where the hate started, it shouldn't have started at all, and it shouldn't have continued. I'm not for paid modding, but if I had to choose, I'd be perfectly fine paying kind and fair modders over not having to pay jerk modders. (Neither of these scenarios exist in a vacuum, but you get the idea.) Nobody is really being selfish, but there are a lot of illogical accusations flying around. I've just seen more on the anti-pay side than the pro-pay side so far.

In response to post #24774814. #24776789, #24777459, #24811584, #24811694, #24811904, #24811959, #24813484 are all replies on the same post. Chido, I have to take FavoredSouls side here. Regardless of whether or not paid modding was a good idea overall, (and I personally think it wasn't,) the consumer portion of the Nexus was far more filled with extreme vitriol and hatred towards the paid authors, people who have given so much for free already. Very few mod authors who tried the paid workshop actually cared enough about being compensated to the point they wouldn't have modded in the first place. When presented with the option, they tried it. It did okay for some but ultimately failed. Many of them accepted that gracefully. Heck, it was always a possibility, quite a few games allow mods to be sold. Bethesda could always make that choice, and you know this is true, because they just did. However brief it was. And if your motivation is experience and a portfolio, then money is your motivation, simple as that. When people like you attack them, calling them entitled brats, a disease, tell them how they should think, why they should do modding, (or anything,) as if you own the very concept... coming off to others as if you think you're so much better than them because you do it for free? (Not to be confused with "for nothing.") You prove everything the paid authors say against you and the people who first started this "war." Especially because you attacked first. I don't care how many mods you've made. I've never made one in my life and I'm on the paid authors side here. You think they're delusional? We don't need your mods either. We don't need you. Bethesda doesn't need you. There will always be other people. Your opinion isn't automatically better because you've made mods for free, or at all. Also, no, nobody is going to replace them when they leave. People will come and go as they always have, but only you and your kind have chased good people away by being so dead set against not the system for it's flaws, but the innocent people who did nothing but fall outside your banner. We have lost their mods, their ideas, their concepts and assets because of the horrible things said by people like you. I like free mods, but I like fair, kind people a lot more. If I had to choose, I'd rather have a smaller more expensive modding community than a hate filled one. (Neither exist, but hey.) Enough is enough. It's fine if you think it's a bad idea. Discuss it's flaws, rail against Bethesda, be logical, convince people. Don't hurt innocent people, and don't let jerks goad you. Also, please learn how to use the word "entitled" correctly. I haven't seen anyone use it right once this entire fiasco.

In response to post #24810109. #24810954, #24813769, #24814189 are all replies on the same post. Quite a few mods made about a thousand dollars in about five days. It totally did work for some, but you're right that most would find themselves lacking. That said, I agree with the point that we would have much less with a paid mod system. Content tends to get shared in a free system, and in a paid system people tend to hold on to their assets and not teach others how to do things for themselves, (to cull potential competition.)

In response to post #24816339. While I could be wrong, I haven't seen any mod authors state that they couldn't continue modding because they weren't getting paid. From what I understand, they reacted to the horrid backlash from the community and decided from there that the community they had been a part of for years was a fickle bunch of spoiled jack offs who didn't actually appreciate mod authors at all. I'm paraphrasing, and I don't agree, but that's what I've read and I can understand the logic behind it. If I were a mod author and many of my "fans" treated me like that, I might jump ship too. If anything, the introduction of a paid mod system meant they could do what they love for a living (or at least spend more time on it,) and the retraction of that system meant they couldn't. Unfortunately, while I think paid mods would cause a lot of problems and I'm sort of relieved it all ended, good people got screwed over more than just losing out on potential revenue.

In response to post #24784749. #24784879, #24784999 are all replies on the same post. Always happy to make your day. If I didn't do it, someone might have thought you spelled it wrong on accident.

In response to post #24784099. #24784289 is also a reply to the same post. These are all fantastic points and I agree with every single one.

In response to post #24784799. I can't help but agree with this. It does seem rather unfair to stop support on an older version of something just because you're charging for the newer version.

In response to post #24784749. #24784999 is also a reply to the same post. develop* Sorry, I had to. You're such a stickler for grammar I couldn't resist. As an edit, let me play the other side of the fence. "Sure, we can try something like this out. Just know that you must also log all your hours to differentiate between when you're testing and when you're playing for enjoyment. This won't really matter though, as it will instead be based on the number of bugs you find instead of a per hour rate, (commission instead of hourly, as it were.) The rate can be negotiated, but I recommend about 50 cents per bug you find. You must also be the first to find the bug, though we will be open to paying those after you if your report is shoddy. Oh, and you obviously must pay for the mod first for the privilege of working with them. $9.99 is an exaggeration, and I think we both know that, but I admire your tenacity. We look forward to hearing from you in the future. We'll hash out the details of what constitutes a bug in future messages."

In response to post #24778264. #24780889, #24783814, #24784399 are all replies on the same post. You missed my point. Those "entitled stoners" never thought that you owed them anything either. So I turned it around on you. Also: "I have never once in this entire controversy even hinted that they do." - You. "That said...my appreciation and thanks is all you're going to get from me. *And you'd damned well better be glad you have even that, and that's all you should bloody well expect....from ANYONE.* You are GROSSLY overvaluing what you do." - Also you. That's a pretty big hint right there. Fact is, endorsements and "thanks" are free. To be so against actual monetary compensation for quality mods is another hint.