Skyrim in future games

[flowmarine]

First of all, that's NOT a thread about Skyrim being a playable province in TES VI. Just some thoughts on the future of TES lore.

 

Looking back at Oblivion and Skyrim it seems that Bethesda has a weird trend to mess with provinces that appeared in previous games and do it in unpredictable ways. Like Red Year and Argonian invasion in Morrowind or Empire collapse and the Great War with Aldmeri dominion in Cyrodiill. And I thought what can possibly happen to Skyrim in next couple decades and how it will influence on the whole Tamriel.

 

The most obvious ideas:

- Forsworn take The Reach and Haafingar and unite with bretons in High Rock

- collapse of Blackreach with destruction of Morthal and Dawnstar

- falmer invasion from the underground

- some kind of volcanic activity in Eastmarch (it is volcanic tundra after all :smile: )

 

Any other thoughts?

[Nodtveidt]

If the Stormcloaks won against the Empire i think the Dominion are going fight the Nords.

[Kraeten]

Given the civil war overhaul that will be released in the near future, my opinion on the civil war's conclusion is subject to change. For now, I think it rather likely the Stormcloaks will win and so destabilize the empire even further. This belief stems mostly from the fact that the Emperor gets dispatched during the DB questline. After losing so many provinces since the events of Oblivion, after the humiliating signing of the Concordant, pretty much the entire narrative points towards the Empire's demise.

 

What will become of Skyrim then? Ulfric will see Skyrim prepared for war, and perhaps lauch an invasion of the summserset isles. Whether he actually achieves victory is anybodies guess. The Forsworn I imagine will never amount to anything more than violent primitves terrorizing the reachmen from their huts in the mountains. Ulfric will certainly not tolerate them rising up again in any organized fashion. Nor do I imagine the forsworn will receive any help from their fellow Bretons of High Rock.

 

High Rock is the most standard of medieval provinces in Tamriel, which means they're cultured. Can't imagine them getting along with a bunch of savages barely dressed in stinking hides and feathers. To say nothing of the twisted Hag-Raven and Briarheart business as well. Really, I'm surprised the Dominion hasn't hit it off with that bunch.

[Othreside]

I'm guessing the Stormcloaks will eventually somehow win the war, Ulfric will be killed regardless of what the player choses, and I just can't see Skyrim winning against the Thalmor in any war that comes along. Perphaps with the Stormcloaks winning, Skyrim will become a more dangerous place for anyone who isn't a Nord or human, for that matter. I'm just guessing that that wlll happen what with the way the dark elves are being treated in Windhelm by Ulfric and the Nords.

[TheVampireDante]

 

What will become of Skyrim then? Ulfric will see Skyrim prepared for war, and perhaps lauch an invasion of the summserset isles.

 

I don't see Ulfric extending himself beyond Skyrim's borders should be win. He's centered on his homeland and nothing else. He might repel attacking forces at the borders, but I don't see him pulling everything together for a direct assault on somewhere that's a whole province away to begin with, never mind the sea travel involved.

 

If he did reach out, and somehow managed to form lasting alliances with Hammerfell and High rock under the goal of halting the Thalmor, then the Dominion wouldn't be such a direct issue for at least some time, and it could potentially take some of the pressure off Cyrodiil's coastline by proxy. Considering the events of a certain questline, the Empire will be some disarray for a time and yes weakened by the loss of so many provinces, but could potentially rise under a new leader that's not to willing to bow to Thalmor rule. Losing Skyrim as part of the Empire will obviously sting, but it's not the end of all things - under a new, stronger willed Emperor perhaps the relations could be rebuilt, even if only for a time in order to make plans against their common opponent.

 

Ulfric's hatred of Elves - while a problem, is not the whole of his personality.

 

He's willing to let then remain in his city, what is essentially his headquarters of his revolt - Would someone as racist and hate filled as he is portrayed allow the supposed targets of his hatred reside there? I doubt it.

 

Yes, Dark Elves are not in the best of conditions, but he doesn't have the time or resources to spare on them until the civil war is over. For all anyone knows he might help then out afterwards (despite it not being portrayed in the game, but that could be said of a lot of things).

I know about the comments stating he'll help Nords in trouble, but not "outsiders" - this I'm going to try and put forward from what I think could be his own viewpoint - every Nord he helps is a potential ally or soldier for his side of the conflict, as might be their family and friends. Dark Elves have already written themselves out of that in advance saying they'll have no part in the war - and beast races are not trusted by anyone in the long run. Even Imperial held cities don't allow many Khajiit inside their walls due to mistrust of their race (stereotyped as thieves, etc) - and Argonians are rare at best, apart from Riften (where they seem to be doing fine by all accounts).

 

This on par with some of the actions of the people he works with, or those who live in his city puts him in a different setting. Ulfric sees them more as a matter of inconvenience, while some others are just pure intolerant (that one Nord who struts around insulting the Dark Elves whenever he gets the chance for example). In the face of fighting a civil war, a few racist idiots hurling insults while drunk is a small matter that really should be dealt with by the city guard when it gets over the top. So far that one drunk hasn't resorted to violence - except when you confront him yourself on the matter.

 

Then take the player - the Dragonborn into account - no matter what race you are, Ulfric is willing to accept you signing up - even if you haven't actually "become" the Dragonborn by discovering your powers, so that's not an excuse for his acceptance of you. If he was an utter racist as portrayed - he would never accept someone of a race he took issue with, no matter what their standing or abilities.

 

About the Forsworn: Barely more than outraged bandits by all accounts, with some magical backing. If a driven effort was made against them - there would be no forsworn soon enough. I don't see any deals or compromises being made with them for the longer term anyway.

[Kraeten]

 

 

What will become of Skyrim then? Ulfric will see Skyrim prepared for war, and perhaps lauch an invasion of the summserset isles.

 

I don't see Ulfric extending himself beyond Skyrim's borders should be win. He's centered on his homeland and nothing else. He might repel attacking forces at the borders, but I don't see him pulling everything together for a direct assault on somewhere that's a whole province away to begin with, never mind the sea travel involved.

 

Galmar and the rest of the Nords loyal to the cause are demanding a confrontation with the Dominion though. Maybe Ulfric would be content to focus on Skyrim alone, but the people he rules will not. After what he suffered from Elewen, I can't imagine Ulfric will be too resistant to the idea of a distant conquest either.

 

As for sailing, well the Nords are pretty much vikings. I'm sure they could make the journey without too much difficulty.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Kraeten

[TheVampireDante]

Yes, Galmar is one of the more openly hostile types I mentioned above, and he does a lot of goading and ego fluffing to get Ulfric to take action (ref: his "you'll be that high king" speech). Other like him are bound to be present, but they obviously have some form of self control, or they'd be out attacking every non-Nord they see despite any orders to hold. Maybe that's out of respect for Ulfric, or fear of him if he feels they've acted beyond the cause I don't know, but something is holding them in line.

 

Whether Ulfric could tow him into line after the Civil War is done with might be a matter for contention, but I still see him as wanting to keep the focus within the Skyrim borders for the near future - he'll want to settle the people, rebuild the country and gather it's strength in order to defend it again. It'd be years before he'd seriously consider making any sort of aggressive strike. He'd be leaving his homeland open if he set out intent on taking on the Dominion on their own doorstep (not the best of moves, even Ulfric and Galmar would see that).

 

 

As for sailing, well the Nords are pretty much vikings. I'm sure they could make the journey without too much difficulty.

 

 

It'd be an incredibly risky and foolish move to mount such an assault without having some serious backup, which is why I think he may potentially reach out to HIgh Rock and Hammerfell first. Launching an assault like that directly from Skyrim's northern shores and going around those places would waste a lot of time and resources right from the start. Better to secure an alliance and put together a joint effort strike from the shores of Hammerfell, which could be the jump off point for the assault from the North and possibly north-east as well (See map for positioning: Map).

 

It would also run as a good supply route to front line forces if secured, and would effectively cut off access to High Rock, Hammerfell and Cyrodiil - leaving Skyrim itself far beyond the Dominions reach for the time being. The only route out to the rest of Tamriel would be directly East, to Valenwood, which despite being part of the Dominion itself, I see as being a reluctant party in it. Listening to Malborn (Bosmer from the Embassy mission), he mentions attacks on settlements and his people as reasons for his actions, if such attacks were carried out there must surely be bad blood between the two races/countries due to those events.

 

Now Cyrodiil plays a large part in how all this would potentially play out - but until a leader is in place there, and the Empires position made clear I still Feel Ulfric would hold to his own borders, he's not stupid and having something like the Empire in the state it is presented in by the end of the civil war (plus other events). It's taking a beating and lost it's hold on Skyrim, and is also minus it's Emperor - so it might, as I said before be reformed and return under a new leader, which might offer a truce in order to deal with the Thalmor - or it'll collapse, in which case it's open for the first group that makes a move on it that can provide some semblance of order and support. That might get Ulfric moving beyond his borders, and could result in the Elder Council making a play to side with him, as I don't see them being as foolish as to go running to the Thalmor given the history there.

 

If they did they'd lose everything, and that would be a fatal stroke to everyone around them as well - not a position anyone would want to be in really.

[blacksupernova]

 

Then take the player - the Dragonborn into account - no matter what race you are, Ulfric is willing to accept you signing up - even if you haven't actually "become" the Dragonborn by discovering your powers, so that's not an excuse for his acceptance of you. If he was an utter racist as portrayed - he would never accept someone of a race he took issue with, no matter what their standing or abilities.

I believe we should take the player as an exception. Bethesda wants the player to be freely choose the side they want to, what would happen if you choose to be an Elf at the start of the game and realize that you can not join the Stormcloaks even though you really want to. 2 options: Abandon the current character (which could be from a few to hundred hours of play time) and create entirely new character and choose the race that would be able to join the Stormcloaks (it could extent so far as to including only Nord) or Forced to join the Empire instead. This will upset many players who enjoy playing as Elves because they are not given the choice like other races, something game designers would want to avoid. The same hold true for the house you can purchase in Windhelm. Currently, you are given the big house not in Gray Quarter regardless of your race, but should the designers decided to give the darkelf player a slum in Gray Quarter, player who like playing Dark Elf will not be pleased. It's more about pleasing customers than building the accurate lore if you ask me.

[TheVampireDante]

Yes, Bethesda wants everyone to have the potential to be everything - that's clear in how you can end up in control of every guild/group/cult/etc going...

 

Within the game world, the only thing that could swing Ulfric into having any dealings with you is the fact you both made it out of Helgen - and you chose to go to him afterwards. Although I find that the line about leaving your criminal past behind is a sore point if you happen to be playing some form of "good" character (which many do) - in those cases, what criminal past? You got caught in the trap meant for him as you crossed the border, was there a blockage on border crossing no one told you about?

 

 

The same hold true for the house you can purchase in Windhelm. Currently, you are given the big house not in Gray Quarter regardless of your race, but should the designers decided to give the darkelf player a slum in Gray Quarter, player who like playing Dark Elf will not be pleased.

 

 

I'd say the opposite (from a roleplaying gamers view here):

 

Play as a Dark Elve and you wander into Windhelm and try to settle down - as an unknown or low level character of little reputation, realistically you would end up in the Gray quarter, taken for another Dunmer refugee arriving in the city - at least until you found some manner of proving yourself worthy of moving out of it and into better accommodations. Being dumped in the Gray quarter should be only be a start, something to drive your character on - to find a way out of that place and move up in the world.

 

I'm not saying that the player should be totally excluded from joining the Stormcloaks if they wanted to - just that it shouldn't be as easy as it would be for a native Nord... (Honestly, that little run Galmar sends you on is insulting. Just kill an Ice Wraith, that's all? Go kill 5 giants and come back with proof, that's a true test of your mettle).

 

Obviously in the Dark Elve case - if you've been around a while, you've made a bit of coin and gathered some fame from your journeys and actions - then perhaps you should be able to just walk in and grab the fancier house, something like an extension of the "Jarl's favours" idea that's present for buying some homes.

Same for any other typically mistrusted race - your only the exception if you've proven yourself to be one. Having it the "de facto" setting right from the beginning makes it seem strange and misplaced, like it wasn't thought through enough.

 

I'd expect a high level of suspicion from Ulfric if a Elven or Beast race tried to join his ranks out of the blue, even more so from his followers (varying amounts dependent on chosen race) - distrust and whispered rumours, maybe a few angered words or actions until such a time comes that you have proven to them (via a major quest or similar) that you are true to the cause and will not betray them. I mean, in Ulfric's place - if a weapon carrying Altmer stepped into my main hold and declared they wanted to join the uprising, I'd would be wary of potential espionage and infiltration plans being played by the Thalmor for a start, and would make sure that this was not the case before entrusting any vital work to this new addition.

 

But no - you go from "I want to join" - to being sent on your 'initiation' task - to heading off to get hold of a very ancient symbol of leadership (the Jagged crown) - if something like that was handed to a spy amongst the stormcloaks, they'd be off with it in a heartbeat. Trust and respect is earned.

Basically what I'm getting at is that I feel the entire Civil War lineup wasn't long or detailed enough to properly represent the attitudes, mindsets or inner workings of either side. Everything is too rushed and piled on the player far too quickly. Before you know it - you've finished it, and as usual - are left feeling like you did all the work, and yet you still haven't gotten the recognition or respect you know you should have.

 

Yes, you can break it up by doing other quests and missions between civil war ones, but that still doesn't add in what I feel is missing from that storyline. It's a complete misrepresentation of the situation from my view point.

 

 

It's more about pleasing customers than building the accurate lore if you ask me.

 

Certainly seems that way, but it's much more immersive and in some ways believable - if you have to work for your glory. A proper rise of a hero/heroine from nothing to the top, hands back a greater sensation of success and pride to the player if dealt with properly, instead of just a short series of "join here, find this, go there, kill that, repeat, done - grats now get lost". Leaves you a bit empty really.

[darkedge42392]

You see, this is one reason I loved Morrowind so much. To become the hero you actually had to work for it. And I don't mean by racing through the main quest. You couldn't be the Nerevarine at level 1. Caius Cosades would laugh at you. (Unless you cheated -.-) There were level requirements and even skill requirements before you could progress, as you had to have some sense of being able to handle yourself before taking on the more dangerous missions.

 

(I do believe the lowest level I beat the Main Quest was at 37, usually I would wait till about 50-70 before finishing it)

 

Anyways, I know this is all off topic, but I had to throw that in there. >.< Sorry.

 

/endrant

 

Back on topic, I agree with Dante's reasoning. Ulfric wouldn't push from Skyrim until he had the resources and alliances to make sure he had every advantage he could to deal with the Thalmor.